DUST Search - {Suggestion} Matchmaking Made Easy

Vell0cet wrote:

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Vell0cet wrote:

It's better for matchmaker to be based on player skill than on gear. if you're consistently in the top of your match you'll face harder opponents, if you're consistently in the bottom, you'll face weaker players. This will achieve an equilibrium where you fall into a group of roughly similar skill so you'll finish in the top half 50% of the time and the bottom half the other 50% of the time. As you gear up, your matchmaker rank will naturally increase utoo.

Though I agree that matching based on skill would be right in most games, I feel it's misguided in this game. With this system I set up, anyone can play against any tier. If a really good player wants to pubstomp less skilled players in the lower tier, he can do so. However he will be limited in what gear he can use, thus evening the playing field. If he wants a better payout and rewards, he can go fight better players in higher tiers before he has good gear, just like people do now. But it gives him a choice. Low payout/lots of low-end salvage for low tier pubstomping, mid-level payout/mid-level salvage with a chance of offiger gear for mid-tier, or high payout/high grade salvage with a fair chance at officer gear and suits for high tier matches. As it stands right now, two even players come up against each other and gear decides who wins. This helps people play within their experience class if they wish to.

Your suggestion creates a lot more complexity, and fractures the already small playerbase into even smaller pools which will result in tiny groups for certain meta categories and game mode combinations. It also runs counter to the Ethos of New Eden where there is no safe haven, and where you can always be ganked when you're not docked up (even in Hi-Sec). The system I posted addresses the biggest flaws with pubstomping but still allows for flexibility and won't fracture the playerbase into small pools with insane wait times. Some players need to outgear their opponents to remain competitive. They should have to pay a heavy ISK (or AUR) for the privilege, but if they're consistently finnishing in the middle of the pack, then everyone is having good fights and the system is working as intended.


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Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 660	Posted - 2013.10.14 22:23:00 - [1] - Quote I've mentioned this method in passing plenty of times before but I never really laid it out properly or made a thread explaining it thoroughly. This concept is simple but the impact on the gameplay would be enormous. Basically this plan separates every public contract into high, medium and low meta level* classes. The way this works is that you can join any meta class you want for any type of match you want, but you cannot run any fit's you have that are above the meta lvl limit of the class you are playing in*. Those fits you have that are above the match's meta lvl become invalid until you return to the merc quarters. Any fit's you have that are below the meta lvl of the class you are playing in can still run, and just to be clear, vehicles are effected by these meta lvl limitations as well. So what is stopping people from all flocking to one class or another and the other two classes depopulating to the point that they are never played? The rewards system. A completely new rewards system would be needed in order to set the pace for this type of matching change to ensure it's all viable. In the low tier you will always* receive at least 10 pieces of salvage at the end of every battle (can randomly get more), but your chances of high-end salvage are very low, you have no chance of getting officer weapons and your ISK rewards are fairly low at the end of the match. This is good for newer players to help them save up stockpiles of items and ISK (since they will have a hard time loosing too much money in them) without over-rewarding them for playing in the easy matches. Recommend 5~10 meta lvl for this tier. In the middle tier you will always receive at least 5 pieces of salvage (will randomly get more) with moderate chance of high-end gear and a very low chance of obtaining officer weapons and a decent ISK payout (similar to our current ISK payout). This is good for anybody who plays the game. This mode will offer a more expensive play that the first tier but with better payoutsYou won't see a lot of high-end gear on the field here, but what high end gear you see will be limited by the the fact that they had to give up modules or weapons or equipment in other slots to equip it. Recommend meta lvl 22~27 for this tier. In the high tier you will always receive 2 pieces of salvage (will NOT randomly get more) that will always be high-end gear with a decent chance (say....15~25% chance) of obtaining officer weapons AND have a very low chance of receiving officer dropsuits, all the while receiving the largest ISK payout of the 3 classes. This is good for proto pubstompers and people who like to hunt them, as well as anyone who wants as much challenge as they can get from a pub match, or those who are wanting the best chance at the best rewards. Meta lvl unlimited. This system would help separate people up quite well based on what they have available. Sure, people with maxed passives can run low level matches and have an advantage against new players, but their rewards for doing so will be terrible and they won't be able to do so in high end gear like they are able to currently. This method of matchmaking doesn't help with sorting people based on skill, but it does keep low SP inexperienced players from going against the best players in game who are wearing the best gear in the game. At least gear-wise they will have a fighting chance _____________ Lastly, Faction Warfare. I left this for last because it needs it's own reworking in a different way than public contracts. With the changes above, FW can be changed to act like PC battles. Very high ISK payout, you salvage what items the other team looses, and the loosing team receives no salvage, SP or ISK. In addition, in order to prevent players who are too green for FW's harsh stance on things from getting in over their heads and going bankrupt, players who have less than 4 million SP should not be able to join a FW battle. The only difference from this FW and our current PC battles would be friendly fire, as FF would just stir up an ant's nest that is best left alone for now _____________ Important note: Doing this would also require further tweaks to the battle finder, such as making sub menus to select the meta class you want to play in as well as the game mode. Sorry CCP! _____________ One last remark, quadrupling the price of all items basic tier and above would go a long towards ISK meaning something again. You would first have to refund all ISK at current market prices and remove all ISK items, then make people re-buy things at the new market prices but it would be worth it to see ISK have meaning again. As it is people are swimming in the stuff because they are able so save it up so easily. But I'll leave that discussion for another thread, I see enough hate coming my way from this thread alone. _________________________________________________________________________________________________ Meta lvl is basically the rank of your fit. The meta lvl of your fit is determined by the cumulative meta lvls of the items you equip to your dropsuit and the meta lvl of the dropsuit itself. For example, the meta lvl of assault rifles is: standard assault rifle meta lvl 1, the breach lvl 2, the GEK lvl 5, the GLU/GB/GK lvl 6, the Duvolle is lvl 8, the Allotek/DuvolleTAR/Creodron lvl 9. *Just for an example (not saying this is to be the set low tier), let's say the low tier is set to meta lvl 5. A build that would be usable in this class would look similar to this: a basic lvl caldari assault dropsuit (meta lvl1) a standard lvl assault rifle (meta lvl 1) 2 basic shield extenders (each one is meta lvl 1) a basic shield regulator (meta lvl 1) a militia armor repair (meta lvl 0) a militia injector (meta lvl 0) militia grenades (meta lvl 0) a militia SMG (meta lvl 0) Total Meta lvl of Suit = Meta lvl 5
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 660	Posted - 2013.10.14 22:24:00 - [2] - Quote WHEW! It's been a while since I maxed out my character limit on a post
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 660	Posted - 2013.10.15 00:32:00 - [3] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: I seem to do fine going toe to toe with protos using my meta 1 gear, so why would I want this? Proto stompers come in and I roll out in my meta 1 logi suit rather than my proto and my kdr goes up. Is there a problem with mixed meta matches? Absolutely not! You obviously didn't even read half of the post or you would not have typed such an ill-informed response. This in no way removes mixed meta lvl matches, it in fact gives better payout and rewards to those who play mixed meta level matches. However, it also allows people who wish to play low meta lvl matches to do so but for reduced payouts. And for people who wish to play mid meta lvl matches to do so with a moderate payout. Read the whole post before you criticize, or don't post. It makes you look bad.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 663	Posted - 2013.10.15 14:23:00 - [4] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Open world real time matchmaking rather than meta matchmaking for the win. Give me an open world to explore and drones to kill along with players, allow me to ambush someone or capture their home base. Is this game about holding hands and singing kubaya? Or is it about killing and being killed? That's one way to look at it. Here's another. You make the argument that having separate channels for players is hand holding. Ok. Then all you would have to do is go pubstomp in weaker gear in the low meta class if it offends you that you can't stomp on noobs. Unless you're worried that running weaker gear might get you killed by the nublets. Do you really need that proto gear to stomp new players? If you are not worried you'll get stomped by noobs if you run weaker gear, then I don't see your issue. You can play in the noob tier and make crappy rewards after every match. If you are worried you'll get stomped, then your problem isn't my proposal, it's that you need to get good. I'm only saying that people should have the choice to fight withing the weight class they feel they are in gear-wise. People of all skill levels can still join any tier, so there is no hiding from someone who just really wants to stomp noobs, but they will have to do it in the same kind of gear the noobs are in. The fact that you wanna pubstomp noobs in proto gear who don't have the gear to properly defend themselves should be your problem, not theirs.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 666	Posted - 2013.10.15 15:13:00 - [5] - Quote X7 lion wrote: you cant match make in dust, it would break the game more then you could ever think out, just give it up & **** off with your weak self. matchmaking can NEVER WORK! get over it. Don't hurt your head with those genius responses to my points, you might blow an artery straining that hard. Any real discussion to be had?
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 667	Posted - 2013.10.15 15:23:00 - [6] - Quote X7 lion wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: X7 lion wrote: you cant match make in dust, it would break the game more then you could ever think out, just give it up & **** off with your weak self. matchmaking can NEVER WORK! get over it. Don't hurt your head with those genius responses to my points, you might blow an artery straining that hard. Any real discussion to be had? i edited my post abit. but theres no place for matching making A. it would needlessly split the player base even more B. there's enough meaningless matchs with puplic contracts atm we dont need more of them. A. This would only really effect public contracts and give people a reason to play them again (almost everyone plays FW these days) B. This would give meaning to the matches with a brand new reward system thatrewards you based on the risk you put into the match. C. It would help evenly divide the playerbase, not split it. Those interested in FW could do so. Those interested in grinding for good gear and officer weapons/suits and high ISK payouts could do so in the high end tier. Those who are interestedin playing challenging matches without running full proto all the time could do so with a decent payout in the mid tier. And those who are new and don't have the gear or gameplay experience to deal with higher end gear can still play and learn in the low tier.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 667	Posted - 2013.10.15 15:34:00 - [7] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: It's better for matchmaker to be based on player skill than on gear. if you're consistently in the top of your match you'll face harder opponents, if you're consistently in the bottom, you'll face weaker players. This will achieve an equilibrium where you fall into a group of roughly similar skill so you'll finish in the top half 50% of the time and the bottom half the other 50% of the time. As you gear up, your matchmaker rank will naturally increase too. Though I agree that matching based on skill would be right in most games, I feel it's misguided in this game. With this system I set up, anyone can play against any tier. If a really good player wants to pubstomp less skilled players in the lower tier, he can do so. However he will be limited in what gear he can use, thus evening the playing field. If he wants a better payout and rewards, he can go fight better players in higher tiers before he has good gear, just like people do now. But it gives him a choice. Low payout/lots of low-end salvage for low tier pubstomping, mid-level payout/mid-level salvage with a chance of offiger gear for mid-tier, or high payout/high grade salvage with a fair chance at officer gear and suits for high tier matches. As it stands right now, two even players come up against each other and gear decides who wins. This helps people play within their experience class if they wish to.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 669	Posted - 2013.10.15 21:04:00 - [8] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Vell0cet wrote: It's better for matchmaker to be based on player skill than on gear. if you're consistently in the top of your match you'll face harder opponents, if you're consistently in the bottom, you'll face weaker players. This will achieve an equilibrium where you fall into a group of roughly similar skill so you'll finish in the top half 50% of the time and the bottom half the other 50% of the time. As you gear up, your matchmaker rank will naturally increase utoo. Though I agree that matching based on skill would be right in most games, I feel it's misguided in this game. With this system I set up, anyone can play against any tier. If a really good player wants to pubstomp less skilled players in the lower tier, he can do so. However he will be limited in what gear he can use, thus evening the playing field. If he wants a better payout and rewards, he can go fight better players in higher tiers before he has good gear, just like people do now. But it gives him a choice. Low payout/lots of low-end salvage for low tier pubstomping, mid-level payout/mid-level salvage with a chance of offiger gear for mid-tier, or high payout/high grade salvage with a fair chance at officer gear and suits for high tier matches. As it stands right now, two even players come up against each other and gear decides who wins. This helps people play within their experience class if they wish to. Your suggestion creates a lot more complexity, and fractures the already small playerbase into even smaller pools which will result in tiny groups for certain meta categories and game mode combinations. It also runs counter to the Ethos of New Eden where there is no safe haven, and where you can always be ganked when you're not docked up (even in Hi-Sec). The system I posted addresses the biggest flaws with pubstomping but still allows for flexibility and won't fracture the playerbase into small pools with insane wait times. Some players need to outgear their opponents to remain competitive. They should have to pay a heavy ISK (or AUR) for the privilege, but if they're consistently finnishing in the middle of the pack, then everyone is having good fights and the system is working as intended. You are mistaken. Your system fractures the playerbase too, pitting people only against others of their own skill level. The difference being that in your method a computer decides who fight who and in mine the players decide. And in my method, there is exactly the same ability for high level/high skill players to pound on lesser skilled/lesser level characters in low tier, it only prevents them from doing so with their best gear. If they need their best gear to be competitive then they can play in the high tier and earn top level rewards for doing so. People right now run against full proto teams in militia gear. In my setup they would still be able to do that, or they could go play against other people who only use militia gear. Or the proto teams could strap on some low-level gear and go beat up other people in low level gear. It's just a matter of having the choice to fight high stakes fights or low stakes fights and earn rewards according to what you are risking, nothing more.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 669	Posted - 2013.10.15 21:13:00 - [9] - Quote X7 lion wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: X7 lion wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: X7 lion wrote: you cant match make in dust, it would break the game more then you could ever think out, just give it up & **** off with your weak self. matchmaking can NEVER WORK! get over it. Don't hurt your head with those genius responses to my points, you might blow an artery straining that hard. Any real discussion to be had? i edited my post abit. but theres no place for matching making A. it would needlessly split the player base even more B. there's enough meaningless matchs with puplic contracts atm we dont need more of them. A. This would only really effect public contracts and give people a reason to play them again (almost everyone plays FW these days) B. This would give meaning to the matches with a brand new reward system thatrewards you based on the risk you put into the match. C. It would help evenly divide the playerbase, not split it. Those interested in FW could do so. Those interested in grinding for good gear and officer weapons/suits and high ISK payouts could do so in the high end tier. Those who are interestedin playing challenging matches without running full proto all the time could do so with a decent payout in the mid tier. And those who are new and don't have the gear or gameplay experience to deal with higher end gear can still play and learn in the low tier. have you considered some one might work out the optimal fitting for a certain meta level that would reck people, then it starts being used by every one els creating a situation where every one plays the same gear, how about the fact that a some one with proto passives makes militia gear practically as good as advanced gear what would those players do, have the noob levels split from the higher ones, honestly to me it just seems like to much mucking about to be worth the hassle. That already happens now. There are fits that most people run right now because they are highly effective regardless of what they come up against, I would not expect that to change just because tiers are in place. As for maxed passives, once again I addressed that in the OP. Sure, people with maxed passives can come and pubstomp low tier like normal, however their rewards for doing so are going to be terrible as opposed to if they were playing in a higher tier. If they wanna waste their time getting low level salvage all day and getting terrible ISK payouts, that's their prerogative and non of my business. At least the playing field will be semi-stabalized as opposed to right now, seeing nublets in militia gear thrown at vets with maxed passives in proto suits. That's a large part of why the playerbase is so small to begin with.