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Improving the connection to New Eden - PvE / open-ish world stuff [wall of text]

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Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1170	Posted - 2013.10.12 17:41:00 - [1] - Quote The recent threads about open world stuff have gotten me thinking about how we can get away from the lobby shooter feel. The big advantage Dust has is the connection to New Eden. Even if other shooters have superior fps mechanics Dust will thrive as long as when you play you feel like you're part of New Eden. It's an entirely unique idea in the fps genre at the moment. Notice that I'm not talking about a connection to Eve, in particular. Just New Eden. I don't expect to see anything like this in the game for at least a year, or maybe two. I think the kinds of things I'm going to talk about are important for the long term future of Dust, but with the current state of the game it would mostly be silly fluff. I'd be a little disappointed if I heard that CCP stopped work on making PC interesting and development of new SIs etc to make this idea a reality. I'm going to start off with a quick rundown of how I see clone tech working in Eve / Dust, so that things will make more sense. We're all clones, and when we die we get downloaded into a new body. That's how we manage to wake up on the other side of the battlefield after dying. In Eve you can do this intentionally without dying but using what's called a jump clone. When you visit a station, if the owner likes you, you can have a clone of yourself made and kept in storage. Then once per day you can jump into one of your stored clones, as a way to quickly get around the universe or get a different set of brain implants without losing the ones you're currently using. I think when we deploy into a battle we use a similar process. Our bodies stay in the MQ and we're transmitted into military grade clones on a barge. We can do this because the corporation making the contract has a giant pile of clones ready for us to jump into and the facilities to make the transmission of our conscious mind possible at that location. Right now we're all stuck in whatever starting system we were dropped into when we made our characters. There really isn't any sense of location at the moment though, it's only there if you really look for it. I've checked it out in Eve, and the type of quarters you have does actually match up to the racial style of the station you're in. We need to be able to move around within New Eden, and we need a reason to do so. Moving around is kind of pointless if you're just going to sit in your quarters all the time, so what I would do is start by making a station environment for each race that will act as a common area for the mercs in that station. If there's too many mercs around you could instance it to keep the framerate up, but you'd still be in the same local channel. I envision it as something like the war barge, but larger. You'd access a tram system from the door of your quarters and get dropped into a concourse, which would have windows allowing you to see the star and nebula for that system, as well as whatever moon / planet the station is next to. This concourse would have storefronts / offices (I'll get back to this in a bit), and basically be a way to travel between two functional areas. The first area would be similar to the war barge we have now or the event horizon lounge on PS Home. This is where you get to run into the other mercs in your station. The barge has some control panels that access screens on the neocom...you could put these in here too but it doesn't really matter. The purpose is social. This is where. as a new player, you meet other mercs and form squads for the first time. But this isn't enough. This bone needs some meat on it - enter the PvE. Every station in New Eden is owned by a corporation. In nullsec these are owned by player corporations (mostly), but in the rest of the galaxy they're owned by the NPC corps that we see on the scoreboard when we run instant matches. We could start to introduce mission agents into Dust, who (as in Eve) you interact with by visiting their station and talking to them. These could start out as rogue drone infestation things, but I'd like to see some more variety eventually. Things like plant a bomb in this structure, defend a convoy from pirates etc with very few clones available to us to respawn with. Let us fight humanoid NPCs that aren't genetically engineered like us. Puny normals, who attack us in droves. Make us feel like the super-soldiers that we are. You can attempt to run these missions alone, but it'd be advised to have some friends meet you in the station and help out. You could even tie Eve players into it - make some missions happen on a district in that system and allow an Eve player to provide strikes to clear out entrenched forces. As you run more missions for a particular agent / corp they like you more, give you better missions and eventually allow you to install a jump clone there. [continued]
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1170	Posted - 2013.10.12 17:41:00 - [2] - Quote Back to the offices. In Eve a corp can rent an office in a station. Create a Dust version of these offices (the rents in Eve are astronomical sometimes, and we couldn't afford them with Dust isk). These offices would be visible on the concourse and display the corp logo / name. If your corp owns an office in a station, you can instantly jump to it in order to regroup with your corpmates and run missions together. So we've talked about social environments and a use for them, and using jump clones to get around. The missing part now is travel, something that CCP has been very wary about implementing for us. Part of the problem is that through our access to the local channel we can spy on Eve players and tell people hunting them where they are. Letting us jump around the galaxy willy nilly is a problem. Attached to the concourse we have...a shuttle bay. Every day you can go in there and book passage to another station. If the station is in the same system you travel to it instantly. If it's in another system, the shuttle departs at downtime (you board automatically ) and arrives when downtime is finished. Or, hire an Eve pilot to move you as often as you like. What I like about this idea is that it increases the sense of immersion in New Eden and opens up the possibility for more interactions with Eve. More importantly, it can be broken up and delivered in small chunks. First the station environments. Then the travel between stations. Then the PvE component, which can start out very small and be expanded on indefinitely through the addition of new game modes. Obviously we won't see anything like this for a very long time, but I think it's an interesting idea to discuss.
Necandi Brasil Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 374	Posted - 2013.10.12 19:05:00 - [3] - Quote Friend, your idea is very good... that's why CCP won't listen to you.
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 564	Posted - 2013.10.13 09:29:00 - [4] - Quote Jump Clones could be great. Even give us a skill to learn for the ability, just like in EVE. Then give us the ability to set a home station to death clone to. I just really want to be able to move my DUST character to different systems. I would love to be in the home station of my EVE pilot buddies. I have heard people say a DUST merc reporting local would be a problem, but I think it would be a great way for the games to work together. I could just imagine a guy in a bunker down on a planet connected to a satellite that is just monitoring the system (seeing who is in local) and such.
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 432	Posted - 2013.10.13 09:32:00 - [5] - Quote Necandi Brasil wrote: Friend, your idea is very good... that's why CCP won't listen to you. +1 Because the "good" idea they didn't listen to was to release all the racial suits, even if they were placeholder arted... Back in BETA!
Dalmont Legrand Nemesis Ad Astra RUST415 50	Posted - 2013.10.13 09:58:00 - [6] - Quote You are talking about mercenaries quarter where we can interact like in warbarge before battle but with our real bodies with no suits, this could bring a body and face maker as in EVE, I am tired of watching same avatars of gall suits or amarr or minmas with name under it. I want to see faces. Plus why not instead of clones on the other side use transportation from eve players. Like a public transport. Example: you are in EVE getting into station, going through station into agent office or "social room" where you meet dust mercenaries. You see a queue for transportation and a payment for it. The more dangerous the way the higher is price, and new kind of insurance can be made, for transporting people. So you load them and fly away. Station infrastructure could be the way to unite games , a first huge step. Where players from one station can stay in one room with their faces and wear as normal EVE players. Interact like in PS home with microphones. Having same access to agents' offices, or to mechanics or to market, I d like to see market graphs on screen like in war barge changing to graph I want to see by pushing a button. Whole interactive map constellation of where you are. With news update. And a possibility of proximity sensors on bloody pirates that chased me to the station where I am hiding, and waiting them to live, as a sensor shows that they are still there. I want to see through station window a super capital showing of into warp.(For EVE) Like you walk to the office, and see an agent there he speaks with EVE pilot, then you can ask for some missions to you. Basically this is a games' merge.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1443	Posted - 2013.10.13 10:01:00 - [7] - Quote Also making the contract system actually feel like you're accepting a contract from a corporation to perform a certain task, not just queueing in a preferred game mode. Tasks as simple as "Hack a point (lets call this A) to steal information from a rival corporation" could be accept by a squad, which instantaneously opens up a universe (sounds New Eden to me) of possibilities as to alternative contracts. 1. Reinforcement: contracts pop up, seeking other players/squads to reinforce the mercs. who are hacking A. These will be low-reward, since there hasn't been any opposition, and is basically free ISK, apparently. 2. Counter: contracts from the corporation getting its info stolen may offer extremely high rewards because that information is apparently very important. Here, new squads could accept the contract, and squads who previously accepted the reinforcement contract could SWITCH SIDES and go for the big payout, betraying people around them. 3. Rescue: requests for help sent out by the first corporation who also jack up contract payouts to try secure the information. 4. Pirates: these could be what public contracts are now. People who accept these random contracts are sent to random planets and if luck is with them they'll stumble upon a fight already underway, swoop in and biomass everything, steal assets and fly off. 5. Fleeing: A contract specifically for vehicle users (payouts increase by 100% if accepted by someone with a vehicle fit costing over 300k), to use their vehicles to help the besieged squad at A to escape with the hacked information. 6. Pursuit: Another vehicle pilot contract, for the opposition's squads to give chase to the fleeing hackers. What we have is a core/root event which could even be PvE initially which spawns dozens of contracts. It's a big task we have years ahead of us. :P
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1089	Posted - 2013.10.13 10:51:00 - [8] - Quote I dunno whay they can't fashion a larger single player area complete with shuttle bay, you can pay for passage between stations.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2729	Posted - 2013.10.13 14:16:00 - [9] - Quote I like it. I think if there were an actual MMO angle of finding "agents" for particular corporations or factions and doing actual unique missions (think about certain quest arcs in other MMOs with scripted events, etc. - lots of PvE quest features here) that the game wouldn't be nearly as stale. The unfortunate part is "content" in the sense of scripting in quests can be a time consuming endeavour even for experienced developers.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1202	Posted - 2013.10.13 14:30:00 - [10] - Quote Yeah, you could spend a lot of time on this kind of thing. But that's part of what I like about it...it lets you start extremely small and then expand when sprints have extra development time. So lets say that they create the station environments. At first all we can do is walk around them. Then they add in the Dust only side transportation (no Eve involvement yet). So we can move around, though there isn't much of a reason to do it other than you want to do it. Then...start the agent system. And that could start out as simple as dude in every station giving out missions to clear rogue drone hives from a local planet. Rewards could start out as simple as giving isk, but you could start to work in features like loyalty points to the different corporations. We're apparently getting these for FW at some point, so the basic guts of that will already be built. It's a framework for them to deliver new content on in a way that is interesting and pulls the player into New Eden.

Erikka Longstick BIG BAD W0LVES 1	Posted - 2013.10.13 15:09:00 - [11] - Quote I like the Idea's, they have a lot of promise. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what 1 of the development teams are working on. to say the aren't listening is wrong. look at what the community has asked for wp's for dropship 's got um, points for head shot got um and for destroying equipment you guessed it got um to say that CCP doesn't listen is wrong. everybody saying CCP doesn't listen clearly certain thing have changed not by them (CCP) wanting to do it but by Us players asking for what we want. it takes time, this is new to any FPS most FPS's just have a single play after you complete that then what? do it all over on a harder level maybe a zombie mode, CCP has under took a dramatic change to how we play a FPS game ,also remember before dust CCP never done a FPS just MMO's so theres a steep learning curve the're going threw. so be patience as they Build it they will lol come. nothing happens over night just cause Dice,Actvison can put out a game every year doesn't mean everybody can. those companies have years and millions of dollars. and a history of doing it .
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster 1965	Posted - 2013.10.13 15:42:00 - [12] - Quote +2 (one for the OP and the other for the second post :) )
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 127	Posted - 2013.10.13 19:41:00 - [13] - Quote Great job in the OP. You are describing pretty much exactly what I was envisioning when I first heard of DUST 514. Based on the new EP's comments (CCP Rouge) he seems pretty keen on EVE integration as a clear mid to long term objective for Dust. I think if they can fight through the rough patch we are in with the game it will be interesting to see how far they can push things.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9381	Posted - 2013.10.13 20:57:00 - [14] - Quote You do realize we are jump clones functionally (actually we're leagues better) While I am all for opening the world up a bit more. Creating more space than there is people could be a bad thing. We also don't have the means right now for AI, or tools for finding other people and at the rate battles are generated if you are just waiting around for a fight the wait times are pretty damn short these days to the point you miss the war barge... So opening the world up I really don't think will do much more in terms of linking the two games together, Unless CCP Eve side decides to open up their stations and we get in on that action somehow. Even then its going to be mostly a social environment at that point. There are other ways of linking the two games together such as making due with what we currently have-ish and improving upon it. Making the current stories far more interesting that is. First is slightly reinventing the bombardment story, its a cool story but needs to be cooler especially for striking pilots. CCP Nullarbor already stated that plans are being made so that the bombardment itself is earned by capsuleer efforts not dust bunny efforts (however whoever gets to place the shot is based on squad efforts). If the capsuleer cannot maintain sky control he cannot bombard regardless of what squads do on the ground. Then allowing capsuleers to quickly join the team they're supporting via eve/dust voice to help coordinate the strikes. Second half of the story is however the more important one. Giving a pilot a reason to go through the heavens and hell to get you that orbital strike. "The Spice Must Flow"
Ranger SnakeBlood OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 215	Posted - 2013.10.13 21:22:00 - [15] - Quote +1 to the OP that would be a great addition to the game a large addition probably will take a while but PVE and a sence of actually being in new eden would be worth it
Sixie Cr Midwess Daath 0	Posted - 2013.10.14 06:45:00 - [16] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: Even if other shooters have superior fps mechanics Dust will thrive as long as when you play you feel like you're part of New Eden. This is the main problem and it needs to be addressed as quickly and thoroughly as possible. The shooting mechanics in this game are very poor by todays standards and that is leading to player loss.
Dalmont Legrand Nemesis Ad Astra RUST415 52	Posted - 2013.10.14 19:00:00 - [17] - Quote BUMP! Adding to what I have told higher, because i got high... because i got high.... so as I mentioned...I don't smoke...so to all this social as we play in social way, see EVE has less on-line because of less social environment being developed, people need fresh things, not rebuilding ships, I would like to see on star map where my ally players are to join them on station quarters by transporting there and accessing new stations' local chat and to chat to new people. Seeing on map like - Nemesis Ad Astra office... unable to move to station... location is under attack... or seeing on map like, alliance headquarters... currently 20 players inside... and inside hq stuff like all territory possessed.... stats graph windows and a whole lot more.... how about making ally ceo's quarters for eve/dust players for now at least. For ceo's only or ceo's and directors but for CCP make it possible we need - investment, technicians, time guys rent some kojima devs or buy naughty dog i don't know.. do something... I would pay to play what we all described... but... forget that guys T.T At least new thing can be done like alliance elections, where players want to replace one of CEO's of alliance's corporation, he/she created corp and brought people but he/she became unsupportable, something changed in his/her life and he/she makes alliance life harder. So alliance CEO gives permission on vote inside of that corporation, directors of corp vote and if they kick him/her, they replace him/her by a person that will be liked by everyone and "KNOWS HOW".


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