DUST Search - Grenades, stealth suits, and me dying instantly

Funkmaster Whale wrote:

Surt gods end wrote:

CCP have already gotten a lot of flak for going against certain staples of FPS games. Nades always have been a OHK. Just most of the time you can only carry one. I don't think that should change.

The no OHK can't start with nades, cause that will lead to Shotguns, then other OHK weapons. Then there will be no OHK weapons. And dust would get laughed at even more.

OHK weapons are totally fine in a game as long as some sort of sacrifice is made between the operation of that weapon. Something like a grenade should require precision because it's a powerful tool that requires timing as well as aim. Thing is, the STD level works great as a grenade because its powerful and has an acceptable blast radius. As you scale up though the grenades steadily become more like mini-nukes, and given the fact that you can sit on a Nanohive and effectively create a mini-orbital with Core Locus is what makes it ridiculous.

The top-tier corps (Nyain San, TeamPlayers, AE, even my corp) all know this and that's why PC is so littered with people throwing Nades. It's a OHK weapon that's really really easy to use, especially if you have scans. You just ****, time, throw, insta kill. At least something like a shotgun requires (a) close range (b) exposing yourself and (c) chance to miss. It's really hard to miss with something that has a 14.4m blast diameter and is effectively an insta-kill to anything caught in the blast.

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Dildong Moderately Content INC 3	Posted - 2013.10.10 12:48:00 - [1] - Quote I have absolutely no issue with how easily one hittable even my dampened medium suit is, but could there be some way grenades could be detected with amplified scan skills? range or precision i suppose. If i miss the faint beep (well, not so faint really) to que me to GTFO, i simply run straight into them trying to get around
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven 783	Posted - 2013.10.10 13:00:00 - [2] - Quote Just gotta be more aware. It's part of the danger of the ground-game. It's also in part due to how ridiculously overpowered M1 and Core Locus Grenades are. Not only do the adv/proto grenades get a wider blast radius, they also get a 25%/50% damage boost from the standard, respectively. People have been saying advanced/proto grenades need to be toned down for a while, but CCP just refuses to listen. The grenades should only scale radius OR damage, not both. Give a variant with high damage/low radius and low damage/high radius. Right now there's no sacrifice made (besides fitting) between damage/radius as you scale up. My proposal was something along the lines of: Locus Grenade: 400 DMG, 6m radius M1 Locus Grenade: 450 DMG, 6m radius Core Locus Grenade: 500 DMG, 6m radius Then you'd have packed and sleek variants that go: M1 Packed Locus: 500 DMG, 4m radius M1 Sleek Locus: 400 DMG, 6.6m radius Core Packed Locus: 600 DMG, 4m radius Core Sleek Locus: 400 DMG, 7.2m radius
Dildong Moderately Content INC 3	Posted - 2013.10.10 13:07:00 - [3] - Quote Yeah, and i've come to terms with it being overpowered. I still think that having stealth invested characters have a way of defending themselves against it better would be a step in the right direction
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1128	Posted - 2013.10.10 13:07:00 - [4] - Quote CCP have already gotten a lot of flak for going against certain staples of FPS games. Nades always have been a OHK. Just most of the time you can only carry one. I don't think that should change. The no OHK can't start with nades, cause that will lead to Shotguns, then other OHK weapons. Then there will be no OHK weapons. And dust would get laughed at even more.
Dildong Moderately Content INC 3	Posted - 2013.10.10 13:09:00 - [5] - Quote I suppose it just comes with the territory of sacrificing buffer health with the ability to traverse more ground. It certainly isnt anything that would make the playstyle unviable or anything, just felt like scout-esque players could get thrown a bone lol
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven 784	Posted - 2013.10.10 13:22:00 - [6] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: CCP have already gotten a lot of flak for going against certain staples of FPS games. Nades always have been a OHK. Just most of the time you can only carry one. I don't think that should change. The no OHK can't start with nades, cause that will lead to Shotguns, then other OHK weapons. Then there will be no OHK weapons. And dust would get laughed at even more. OHK weapons are totally fine in a game as long as some sort of sacrifice is made between the operation of that weapon. Something like a grenade should require precision because it's a powerful tool that requires timing as well as aim. Thing is, the STD level works great as a grenade because its powerful and has an acceptable blast radius. As you scale up though the grenades steadily become more like mini-nukes, and given the fact that you can sit on a Nanohive and effectively create a mini-orbital with Core Locus is what makes it ridiculous. The top-tier corps (Nyain San, TeamPlayers, AE, even my corp) all know this and that's why PC is so littered with people throwing Nades. It's a OHK weapon that's really really easy to use, especially if you have scans. You just ****, time, throw, insta kill. At least something like a shotgun requires (a) close range (b) exposing yourself and (c) chance to miss. It's really hard to miss with something that has a 14.4m blast diameter and is effectively an insta-kill to anything caught in the blast.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1128	Posted - 2013.10.10 13:43:00 - [7] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: Surt gods end wrote: CCP have already gotten a lot of flak for going against certain staples of FPS games. Nades always have been a OHK. Just most of the time you can only carry one. I don't think that should change. The no OHK can't start with nades, cause that will lead to Shotguns, then other OHK weapons. Then there will be no OHK weapons. And dust would get laughed at even more. OHK weapons are totally fine in a game as long as some sort of sacrifice is made between the operation of that weapon. Something like a grenade should require precision because it's a powerful tool that requires timing as well as aim. Thing is, the STD level works great as a grenade because its powerful and has an acceptable blast radius. As you scale up though the grenades steadily become more like mini-nukes, and given the fact that you can sit on a Nanohive and effectively create a mini-orbital with Core Locus is what makes it ridiculous. The top-tier corps (Nyain San, TeamPlayers, AE, even my corp) all know this and that's why PC is so littered with people throwing Nades. It's a OHK weapon that's really really easy to use, especially if you have scans. You just ****, time, throw, insta kill. At least something like a shotgun requires (a) close range (b) exposing yourself and (c) chance to miss. It's really hard to miss with something that has a 14.4m blast diameter and is effectively an insta-kill to anything caught in the blast. well ccp decided that there will be no roles. That everyone can do everything. sounds great on paper. But executing it is a different story. nano hives was the result of that. Other FPS games keep the nades volleys in check by who controls the ammo drops. or at the cost of you dying and having to re spawn.
Doc Noah Algintal Core Gallente Federation 625	Posted - 2013.10.10 13:47:00 - [8] - Quote As others have suggested, make grenades replenishable by only the supply depot, that would eliminate the ability to sit on a nanohive and spam. I dont think the 1 grenade count would work since MLT has 1 count below STD/ADV/PRO. 2 seems fine when combined with the limited method to resupply grenades. Grenades in shooters should never be spammable, especially not the ones that get as strong as the M1 and Core locus.
Assassin Of Virtue Butt Hurt Try Hards 0	Posted - 2013.11.07 06:19:00 - [9] - Quote OHK nades and such is fine by me. Really, unlimited hand nades is pretty much the same as having those danged nade launchers. Radius damage is fine, but it needs to be set up to where ground zero applies the most damage whilst the further out you go the less damage is dealt, however, I've not had a problem with nades OHKing me. Course thats with my heavy guy and it takes two nades to put him down. All in all this game requires the training of skills. You can't train your assault rifle skills to five and expect your suit to be able to tank the militia guns easy. You gotta train dropsuit skills as well, which I think many players just don't understand that concept. Gotta play EVE Online to truly understand the nature of 'players can do everything'. There's no such thing as a single char with a specific role. You gotta train towards that specific role. you want stealth? Ok, train towards stealth. Easy peasy.
Powerh8er Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 284	Posted - 2013.11.07 06:43:00 - [10] - Quote The nades should have the same damage and splash as the massdriver or vice versa, just saying.

Rei Shepard Spectre II 824	Posted - 2013.11.07 07:45:00 - [11] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: Just gotta be more aware. It's part of the danger of the ground-game. It's also in part due to how ridiculously overpowered M1 and Core Locus Grenades are. Not only do the adv/proto grenades get a wider blast radius, they also get a 25%/50% damage boost from the standard, respectively. People have been saying advanced/proto grenades need to be toned down for a while, but CCP just refuses to listen. The grenades should only scale radius OR damage, not both. Give a variant with high damage/low radius and low damage/high radius. Right now there's no sacrifice made (besides fitting) between damage/radius as you scale up. My proposal was something along the lines of: Locus Grenade: 400 DMG, 6m radius M1 Locus Grenade: 450 DMG, 6m radius Core Locus Grenade: 500 DMG, 6m radius Then you'd have packed and sleek variants that go: M1 Packed Locus: 500 DMG, 4m radius M1 Sleek Locus: 400 DMG, 6.6m radius Core Packed Locus: 600 DMG, 4m radius Core Sleek Locus: 400 DMG, 7.2m radius The damage from the grenades isnt the issue, its the damage they can apply to any armor based suit that is the problem. a Core Locust deals 480 damage against shields, a good shield suit can survive this, get some armor damage and be good to go in no time, the same grenade however deals 810 damage against armor, thats almost twice the damage then against shields. Ive got 467 armor in my assault suit and when my shields are down i always get OHK by any grenade, most guys make it a sport to then throw 15 or so from a hive, or a masshole decides you need an extra shot. the diffrence grenades deal to shields & armor is too large. Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!"
WASTED MERC The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 39	Posted - 2013.11.07 10:45:00 - [12] - Quote Powerh8er wrote: The nades should have the same damage and splash as the massdriver or vice versa, just saying. Yeah do that, bring nades down to the MD dmg and blast radius then CCP will finally buff the MD :)
Medic 1879 Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 1194	Posted - 2013.11.07 12:00:00 - [13] - Quote Powerh8er wrote: The nades should have the same damage and splash as the massdriver or vice versa, just saying. I would gladly give my left foot for a MD that fires core locus nades. TEST signature please help me think of a better one.
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 702	Posted - 2013.11.07 12:06:00 - [14] - Quote Get a scout suit with a cheap militia gun and a core locus grenade. Hug people. I go commando in my Commando. Feels good, man.


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