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Mauren NOON
The Exemplars
Top Men.
2
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Posted - 2013.10.09 02:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Swarms are supposed to do less to shields right? If that's true then why do proto swarms do 2000 damage to my gunnlogi with the hardeners a on??? They do more damage to my shield tank than a PROTO forge gun does...so if I run into proto swarms I'm screwed because of how fast they shoot now. I just don't think it right for swarms to do so much damage to a shield tank. Anyone else agree? |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Rebellion
267
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Posted - 2013.10.09 02:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
With the shield bonus forges get I really doubt swarms actually outdamage them in actual application. The reason they hit for so much though is proficiency and damage mods. Your typical proto swarmer will have no less than proficiency 3 as well as no less than 2 damage mods. This equates to around 2300 raw damage before resists and efficiency. Being an AV guy I can tell you that my proto swarms do not hit a proper fit shield tank for 2000 damage, Id estimate they hit for around 1300 to 1500 which is why I flux shield tanks before firing my swarms which could be what you are experiencing. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2720
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Posted - 2013.10.09 02:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
RECON BY FIRE wrote:With the shield bonus forges get I really doubt swarms actually outdamage them in actual application. The reason they hit for so much though is proficiency and damage mods. Your typical proto swarmer will have no less than proficiency 3 as well as no less than 2 damage mods. This equates to around 2300 raw damage before resists and efficiency. Being an AV guy I can tell you that my proto swarms do not hit a proper fit shield tank for 2000 damage, Id estimate they hit for around 1300 to 1500 which is why I flux shield tanks before firing my swarms which could be what you are experiencing.
Which is too much for the short lock, travel, and reload times. |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Rebellion
267
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 02:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:RECON BY FIRE wrote:With the shield bonus forges get I really doubt swarms actually outdamage them in actual application. The reason they hit for so much though is proficiency and damage mods. Your typical proto swarmer will have no less than proficiency 3 as well as no less than 2 damage mods. This equates to around 2300 raw damage before resists and efficiency. Being an AV guy I can tell you that my proto swarms do not hit a proper fit shield tank for 2000 damage, Id estimate they hit for around 1300 to 1500 which is why I flux shield tanks before firing my swarms which could be what you are experiencing. Which is too much for the short lock, travel, and reload times. If all of these things were longer then I would have not issue with the Weapon at all, let them keep their damage.
Im quite sure an assault forge can produce much more damage output on a shield tank than a swarm in the same amount of time while also having instant damage application. However, if youre also saying forges put out too much damage too quickly then I would be inclined to agree with you. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2722
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 02:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
RECON BY FIRE wrote:True Adamance wrote:RECON BY FIRE wrote:With the shield bonus forges get I really doubt swarms actually outdamage them in actual application. The reason they hit for so much though is proficiency and damage mods. Your typical proto swarmer will have no less than proficiency 3 as well as no less than 2 damage mods. This equates to around 2300 raw damage before resists and efficiency. Being an AV guy I can tell you that my proto swarms do not hit a proper fit shield tank for 2000 damage, Id estimate they hit for around 1300 to 1500 which is why I flux shield tanks before firing my swarms which could be what you are experiencing. Which is too much for the short lock, travel, and reload times. If all of these things were longer then I would have not issue with the Weapon at all, let them keep their damage. Im quite sure an assault forge can produce much more damage output on a shield tank than a swarm in the same amount of time while also having instant damage application. However, if youre also saying forges put out too much damage too quickly then I would be inclined to agree with you.
Again I have some thoughts on how to balance forge guns, but I don't want to take the killing AV power from them, though I would make them single shot good alpha to save them from being used a anti infantry weapons, which is why you see so many of them on the field, also for such a high Alpha I would add in a lock up mechanic. |
KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
1638
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Posted - 2013.10.09 02:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mauren NOON wrote:Swarms are supposed to do less to shields right? If that's true then why do proto swarms do 2000 damage to my gunnlogi with the hardeners a on??? They do more damage to my shield tank than a PROTO forge gun does...so if I run into proto swarms I'm screwed because of how fast they shoot now. I just don't think it right for swarms to do so much damage to a shield tank. Anyone else agree?
Its true, you are lying. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
1149
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Posted - 2013.10.09 02:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Mauren NOON wrote:Swarms are supposed to do less to shields right? If that's true then why do proto swarms do 2000 damage to my gunnlogi with the hardeners a on??? They do more damage to my shield tank than a PROTO forge gun does...so if I run into proto swarms I'm screwed because of how fast they shoot now. I just don't think it right for swarms to do so much damage to a shield tank. Anyone else agree? Its true, you are lying.You got hit by packed grenades or more swarms at the same time you just didn't notice, like ALWAYS........ and came here to rant. I'm always tossing C-7 or packed AV first then following up with my swarms.
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demonkiller 12
G.U.T.Z
245
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Posted - 2013.10.09 03:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mauren NOON wrote:Swarms are supposed to do less to shields right? If that's true then why do proto swarms do 2000 damage to my gunnlogi with the hardeners a on??? They do more damage to my shield tank than a PROTO forge gun does...so if I run into proto swarms I'm screwed because of how fast they shoot now. I just don't think it right for swarms to do so much damage to a shield tank. Anyone else agree?
to punish you for using hardners on a shield tank |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots
RISE of LEGION
477
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Posted - 2013.10.09 03:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
mathemagically speaking, 2k damage through hardeners is pretty unlikely.
proto swarm deals 300*6=1,800 damage, base. i'm gonna call them explosive damage. last i checked mass drivers dealt 65% damage to shields, and since we cannot shoulder and aim a swarm launcher to get a damage profile out of it, that 65% factor is the best guess we have.
that puts us at 1,170. now granted this is disregarding any damage mods the swarm guy might be using, and his proficiency skill, but it is also disregarding your shield resistance skill, and your shield hardener.
lets take a less extreme guess, since i cannot confirm swarms damage profile since we can't aim them. stay with me here because it gets theory crafty:
lasers deal 120% damage to shields and 80% to armor. lasers are supposed to be the most extreme opposite to swarms and other explosive weapons. so lets invert the laser damage profile and use that, 80% damage to shields.
this still puts us at just 1,440. again, before other mods.
now from here we MIGHT be able to get close to 2,000 damage, lets try? capped proficiency skill is 15% damage. prototype mods are 10%. how many do we think is reasonable with stacking penalties? maybe we do 5 damage mods for the sake of argument?
according to this 5 modules at 10% apiece will give a 31.3% damage increase.
so, lets do all o that fun ****. (((300*6)*1.15)*1.31) = 2,711 HEY HEY! there we go. it's over 2k! for now.
but lets apply even the MINIMAL shield resistance. 2,711*.8=2168.
now lets try it with my original guess at the damage profile: 2,711*.65=1762.
so there you go, if the guy shooting at you is laughably perfect, and the shields basic defenses are the lesser of our 2 theories, and you have literally no passive resistance bonus, and your hardener was actually OFF at the time, it might have done 2k.
so do you think all that happened? or do you think you may have just been hit with something else you were not aware of?
and if you do think all that happened, oh well? we're talking about the BEST possible swarm launcher setup against the WORST possible tank. stop driving the literally worst possible tank? and how often are you going to come up against the BEST possible swarm? |
Tectonic Fusion
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
329
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Posted - 2013.10.09 04:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:RECON BY FIRE wrote:True Adamance wrote:RECON BY FIRE wrote:With the shield bonus forges get I really doubt swarms actually outdamage them in actual application. The reason they hit for so much though is proficiency and damage mods. Your typical proto swarmer will have no less than proficiency 3 as well as no less than 2 damage mods. This equates to around 2300 raw damage before resists and efficiency. Being an AV guy I can tell you that my proto swarms do not hit a proper fit shield tank for 2000 damage, Id estimate they hit for around 1300 to 1500 which is why I flux shield tanks before firing my swarms which could be what you are experiencing. Which is too much for the short lock, travel, and reload times. If all of these things were longer then I would have not issue with the Weapon at all, let them keep their damage. Im quite sure an assault forge can produce much more damage output on a shield tank than a swarm in the same amount of time while also having instant damage application. However, if youre also saying forges put out too much damage too quickly then I would be inclined to agree with you. Again I have some thoughts on how to balance forge guns, but I don't want to take the killing AV power from them, though I would make them single shot good alpha to save them from being used a anti infantry weapons, which is why you see so many of them on the field, also for such a high Alpha I would add in a lock up mechanic.
They are suppose to be anti infantry. People just have been using them for AV because it's effective. |
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Ninjanomyx
TeamPlayers
EoN.
335
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Posted - 2013.10.09 04:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mauren NOON wrote:Swarms are supposed to do less to shields right? If that's true then why do proto swarms do 2000 damage to my gunnlogi with the hardeners a on??? They do more damage to my shield tank than a PROTO forge gun does...so if I run into proto swarms I'm screwed because of how fast they shoot now. I just don't think it right for swarms to do so much damage to a shield tank. Anyone else agree?
This is b/c Swarms get a 50% Damage Increase unlike any other Weapon in the Game (2 Missiles added to 4...Math FTW). Damage Mods simply exacerbate these conditions...... |
Mauren NOON
The Exemplars
Top Men.
3
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Posted - 2013.10.10 22:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Well the damage output was more like 1730 but that on a 5679 sheild gunnlogi with a surge shield hardener but I appreciate al the math. But I think the deceased fire time for swarms was kind of dumb. It help for dropships but for tanks your screwed |
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