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Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2031
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 19:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ill write up a history of the dropship camera some other time but right now it suffers from more problems than ever before.
In 1.4 the camera was moved in such a way as to better see frontal targets, but added the draw backs of not being able to see around the body of the ship very well.
In 1.5 we are back to Uprising aiming, in that we now have to aim down through ourselves, with the dropship obstructing view of targets. Yet we still have a camera far forward enough that we cannot see around us very well.
But with the newer rendering of 1.3 or so, targets chevrons only show up when in Very close range ( despite turrets aiming 3x as far) and when hovering over targets.
So now to shoot a target you must aim down through your own ship, very close to them, with your dropship blocking periphery And more of the screen between you and target. Rendering and chevron issues make this 10x worse because that chevron is now the only thing teling you where the target you are shooting for is. Because its through your ship.
And aiming down is now harder to do without rocking your ship back and forth.
Tl; dr.
Camera is worse than ever. All the down sides of every previous implementation and not a single advantage. Rendering issues magnify previous issues with previous implementation drawbacks.
What we need is a toggle between exactly 1.4, and exactly uprising with a transparency affect aplied to owners dropship when aiming down through it. This would solve all the problems. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
6814
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 20:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Testing now.....they literally cannot go a patch without messing with our damn ships >_< |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2031
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 20:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Testing now.....they literally cannot go a patch without messing with our damn ships >_<
A full history of previous implementations and details may be required for any non-active pilots to realoze what I mean here. Perhaps of I could find assault ds videos from each version that demonstrated the differences and disadvantages of each type that would help.
Judge does a good job on his videos covering some of the aspects of rendering problems. |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
2142
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 20:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think CCP just hates people that fly.
Has Iceland ever had an infamous historic event involving flying machines? |
Sgt Buttscratch
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
890
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 20:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
The new dropship view is absolute ****.
Problems(in my opinion) White cross hair, white drop ship, it's almost hidden so your relying on seeing an orange dot. Cant see **** through my ship...... Auto switches to 1st person when you come close to something. 1st person view is terrible.
All in all they have sold us down the river here, probably won't get reverted considering ADS are being ganked. |
Frank Olson Usul
DUST University Ivy League
22
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 20:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
As a pilot flying with KB/M, I have another thing to complain about: The sensitivity of the dropship camera changed a lot from 1.3 to 1.4/1.5. Before I could look around and land safely on those 3 rings on that one map (tower made of 3 rings in the big city).
Now I don't even hit the tower at all. It got SO much harder to land on small stuff. I wasted 80 dropships until i was really OK flying them and 1.4 killed that completely. The mouse is so sensitive, and the changed view ... I never got back to just half of my old level of flying :/
Please improve on the controls for KB/M users too. (Infantry is ok). |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2032
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 20:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:The new dropship view is absolute ****.
Problems(in my opinion) White cross hair, white drop ship, it's almost hidden so your relying on seeing an orange dot. Cant see **** through my ship...... Auto switches to 1st person when you come close to something. 1st person view is terrible.
All in all they have sold us down the river here, probably won't get reverted considering ADS are being ganked.
Good point. If ccp could just patch this back to 1.4 view, when they do the next patch thatd be great.
Well bad but still far better than this. And I never thought id say that about 1.4
Each new camera change has been markedly worse than the last. Just put it back to 1.4 till ads is removed in 1.8 so we can at least use these stupid things in the mean time. Since thy wont be actually fixing the view anyti.e in the next year at Least |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
514
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think the camera is much better here from a shooting perspective. Hard to explain without diagrams but the way a dropship approaches an enemy, fly in lift nose to slow means we present our underside more when we slow to shoot. This works much better than shooting in front of us. That (1.4 position) is a good angle for dive attacks, but they are not our bread and butter.
I'm doing much better with the 1.5 shooting mechanics. That said, its a touch close to the ship. I get in my own way when flying in 3rd person. |
Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1949
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
What if they made the drop ship translucent from the pilots POV? Rather than fiddling with camera positioning just allow you pilots to see through it. Problem solved? |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2032
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I think the camera is much better here from a shooting perspective. Hard to explain without diagrams but the way a dropship approaches an enemy, fly in lift nose to slow means we present our underside more when we slow to shoot. This works much better than shooting in front of us. That (1.4 position) is a good angle for dive attacks, but they are not our bread and butter.
I'm doing much better with the 1.5 shooting mechanics. That said, its a touch close to the ship. I get in my own way when flying in 3rd person.
But we need to be able to see through ourselves. |
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Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2033
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:What if they made the drop ship translucent from the pilots POV? Rather than fiddling with camera positioning just allow you pilots to see through it. Problem solved?
Thats what im saying.
This view is ok if when we look down and our rectical is through ourselvee, we should be able to see through ourselves to where its pointing.
But 1.4 view had its uses. So a toggle between the two is ideal. Current first person is a gimmic and only good at air to air but annoying to r3 back amd forth |
Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
282
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Why am I not surprised they "Fixed" the problem by making it worse. |
Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1950
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:What if they made the drop ship translucent from the pilots POV? Rather than fiddling with camera positioning just allow you pilots to see through it. Problem solved? Thats what im saying. This view is ok if when we look down and our rectical is through ourselvee, we should be able to see through ourselves to where its pointing. But 1.4 view had its uses. So a toggle between the two is ideal. Current first person is a gimmic and only good at air to air but annoying to r3 back amd forth CCP hook it up! Boning the derpship pilots has gotten old. |
Sir Snugglz
Red Star. EoN.
116
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I think the camera is much better here from a shooting perspective. Hard to explain without diagrams but the way a dropship approaches an enemy, fly in lift nose to slow means we present our underside more when we slow to shoot. This works much better than shooting in front of us. That (1.4 position) is a good angle for dive attacks, but they are not our bread and butter.
I'm doing much better with the 1.5 shooting mechanics. That said, its a touch close to the ship. I get in my own way when flying in 3rd person.
1 slight problem with that method of shooting. I rely on constant movement, especially when dodging forges. Your method may allow for easier shots but you are exposing yourself because you are practically breaking to a full stop which makes you easy targets to AV.... guaranteed hits from those pro forge gunners and even noob forgers will have a higher chance of hitting you.
This (2:40-3:10) is the preferred method that I have come to consider to be most effective not just with shooting but with evasive maneuvers... you know... not getting blown up. And there is no guessing game. You can see the enemy in your line of site without sacrificing speed.
The new camera takes that away but not having the enemy within line of sight... let alone where the forge shots are coming from. |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2033
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:Why am I not surprised they "Fixed" the problem by making it worse. Because... thats been the consecutive trend for the last several or more patches?
Seems safe to assume at this point |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2033
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:Nguruthos IX wrote:Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:What if they made the drop ship translucent from the pilots POV? Rather than fiddling with camera positioning just allow you pilots to see through it. Problem solved? Thats what im saying. This view is ok if when we look down and our rectical is through ourselvee, we should be able to see through ourselves to where its pointing. But 1.4 view had its uses. So a toggle between the two is ideal. Current first person is a gimmic and only good at air to air but annoying to r3 back amd forth CCP hook it up! Boning the derpship pilots has gotten old.
Contrary to popular belief DS pilots dont fly because theyre masochists. Its because we enjoy a different kind of challenge. However screwing up the core aspects of our vision, the ability to see other flying objects, maneuver out of tight spaces, and see targets . Is not the sort of challenge thats fun to overcome. |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2033
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sir Snugglz wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I think the camera is much better here from a shooting perspective. Hard to explain without diagrams but the way a dropship approaches an enemy, fly in lift nose to slow means we present our underside more when we slow to shoot. This works much better than shooting in front of us. That (1.4 position) is a good angle for dive attacks, but they are not our bread and butter.
I'm doing much better with the 1.5 shooting mechanics. That said, its a touch close to the ship. I get in my own way when flying in 3rd person.
1 slight problem with that method of shooting. I rely on constant movement, especially when dodging forges. Your method may allow for easier shots but you are exposing yourself because you are practically breaking to a full stop which makes you easy targets to AV.... guaranteed hits from those pro forge gunners and even noob forgers will have a higher chance of hitting you. This (2:40-3:10) is the preferred method that I have come to consider to be most effective not just with shooting but with evasive maneuvers... you know... not getting blown up. And there is no guessing game. You can see the enemy in your line of site without sacrificing speed. The new camera takes that away but not having the enemy within line of sight... let alone where the forge shots are coming from.
If I know that I and or my team have the ground under control for a bit and im allowed to enjoy the rare opertunity to place some solid shots id rather be able to do that then zig zag around pointlessly and lose out on kills\ annoy my gunners even more
But sure |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
517
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think it more a case that pilots are different. Out different styles and ships and modules mean we attack and evade in many ways. I would like an option. I think either 1.4 or 1.5 which you can pick from the options menu.
I really don't think there is a single view we will all agree on. Moot anyway with ADS going on holiday soon. |
Grimmiers
0uter.Heaven
242
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
What they should do is tweak the first person camera to behave like a move controller in which the screen doesn't move until you pass a certain threshold on the screen. It was like this in starhawk and it worked pretty well. They could also have a button that allows you to have free aim when pressed so you can choose between turning the dropship or aiming the front gun. |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2033
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:I think it more a case that pilots are different. Out different styles and ships and modules mean we attack and evade in many ways. I would like an option. I think either 1.4 or 1.5 which you can pick from the options menu.
I really don't think there is a single view we will all agree on. Moot anyway with ADS going on holiday soon. Yes. And well, moot in like 3 months or longer. Thats a while.
Especially with new vehicle changes the dropships are described by ccp as Shield- hit and run Armor- stand and deliver.
Its hard to stand and deliver when being still and looking at targets covers them and the whole ground in camo (dropship all up in yo face).
Toggle is best. If camera favors one or the other then thats bad. But I fail to see how a self-transparency effect would preclude or inhibit shield dropships from their more mobile playstyle. |
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Sgt Buttscratch
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
892
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
I liked 1.4's style TBO, It worked well for me, I was starting to get pretty damn accurate then this garbage shows up. |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2034
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 22:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:I liked 1.4's style TBO, It worked well for me, I was starting to get pretty damn accurate then this garbage shows up. I was used to it too. For firing at targets.
Which when it came along I said was one thing it may have improved but at the cost of say, being able to fly under and around some bridges inside a city socket , or fly around other dropships without an acute sense of situational awareness. Hard to avoid getting kamikaze d by a viper though since your blind spot is everywherr amd they can exploit that. |
Dust Junky 4Life
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 22:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:What if they made the drop ship translucent from the pilots POV? Rather than fiddling with camera positioning just allow you pilots to see through it. Problem solved? NO NO NO AND FK NO! What in the heck are u saying. Invisible ships crash into things. Oh wait, they already do that. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
1418
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 22:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
I literally learned how to rock out in my ADS last week.
Today... useless. So different it's crazy lol |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2034
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 22:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dust Junky 4Life wrote:Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:What if they made the drop ship translucent from the pilots POV? Rather than fiddling with camera positioning just allow you pilots to see through it. Problem solved? NO NO NO AND FK NO! What in the heck are u saying. Invisible ships crash into things. Oh wait, they already do that.
Pilot's POV simply means the pilots point of view.
In other words as a pilot I would be able to see wherever my front turret is pointing because if I point down, to me and only me, I can see through my own ship. Transparent not invisible. Like a glass of cloudy water.
For anyone else in the ship or ground I will appear to remain constantly solid. It is only a visual affect and only for the pilot. |
Flix Keptick
Red Star. EoN.
130
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 22:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:I literally learned how to rock out in my ADS last week.
Today... useless. So different it's crazy lol Same here... seriously ccp DONT TOUCH DROPSHIPS PRETEND AS IF THEY DONT EXIST AND LEAVE US ALONE. Cause honestly for every good change there is 10 negative ones. |
WhiteRaven 2013
Unified Telepathics
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 22:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
I have been practicing flying dropships for months now. I've played dust since the beta version and was ok with the last change of camera in the previous update. I was ok with the camera in the precious update. It worked amazingly well. Now it just doesn't make sense at all. How can you aim at something that you don't see because the ship is in the way. Please tell me this is a joke and it will be changed back or i will just stop playing this game. I've spent months getting the upgrades for the ship so i can at least get away from forgeguns and now i can't even see if it's a forgegunner that i'm trying to fire on. This camera change is a punch in the face to every assault dropship pilot. It makes no sense
Change it back.
|
Sir Snugglz
Red Star. EoN.
117
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 02:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
I agree with offering both views... |
Flix Keptick
Red Star. EoN.
131
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 03:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
I wish we could tilt the camera while in first person view without moving the entire dropship. That and a an inclination meter (or whatever its called) on the hud so that I can still level of with the ground while in first person. Would just make aiming so much better. Would also be closer to what tanks are like. |
Blaze Ashra
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 04:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
It's not perfect but i'll happily take this over 1.4. No more crashing and being able to see where forge rounds are coming from is worth losing out on a few kills. Haven't lost a single ship so far , but I haven't been playing that much this week, (busy week, lots to do). 1.3 was better, and I still think it would be best to cycle through the 3 views but I'll gladly take this over 1.4's camera.. |
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Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2043
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 04:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
Blaze Ashra wrote:It's not perfect but i'll happily take this over 1.4. No more crashing and being able to see where forge rounds are coming from is worth losing out on a few kills. Haven't lost a single ship so far , but I haven't been playing that much this week, (busy week, lots to do). 1.3 was better, and I still think it would be best to cycle through the 3 views but I'll gladly take this over 1.4's camera.. hu? |
Beld Errmon
Evocatius
975
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 04:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
I had just mastered the new camera mode and then they go and change it back, now i can't shoot for sh*t again and its gunna be like this for weeks.
Yet another undocumented change by CCP, if they had of actually bothered to mention this before doing it we could have told them not to do it.... so pissed off with you right now CCP, every aspect of this game I enjoy you completely ruin. |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2043
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 04:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:I had just mastered the new camera mode and then they go and change it back, now i can't shoot for sh*t again and its gunna be like this for weeks.
Yet another undocumented change by CCP, if they had of actually bothered to mention this before doing it we could have told them not to do it.... so pissed off with you right now CCP, every aspect of this game I enjoy you completely ruin.
Try sustaining fire on a tank now lol
good luck |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2043
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 04:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Also they nerfed passengers last patch. Dropship passengers can't even look around freely while in the passenger seat... To see when and where to drop.
Lolol. Helpful.
Now somebody tell me why in the hell they'd go and remove a thing like that? |
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 04:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
I fly a Grimsnes, but my control has improved with the new camera angle. I have better perception of my landing gears and have better control over thruster direction. I do accelerate a little slower due to the lack of ability to "dolphin" effectively anymore, if any one else knows that speed trick.
I don't shoot much though, I mainly fly in and out of hot zones and get equipment in tactical positions. I need to be fully aware of my ships position with relation to the airspace and available landing area. This closer angle helps me greatly. I would like to see an adjustable angle like in GTA. I think then it would suit all of our needs and play styles then. |
Blaze Ashra
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 06:10:00 -
[36] - Quote
Sorry, it's late. I was just saying I like this better than the 1.4 but less than the 1.3 camera. Still think it would be best to just let us cycle through first person, 1.4 and 1.3 view. |
Vin Vicious
Capital Acquisitions LLC Public Disorder.
542
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 08:23:00 -
[37] - Quote
Flying a DS in third person on kb/m is physically impoosible and that's not a typo |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1298
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 12:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
I tried to fly yday, i couldnt see where i was going half the time because my lolderpship took up 90% of the screen |
Aaroniero d'Lioncourt
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
182
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 12:19:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP be like..
"I thought you fcks wanted the view changed back to 1.3, Now that it's been done, Why you fcks want 1.4 view now?"
Players be like..
"We had no choice but to adapt to 1.4 DS view since you mofos take a while to update and sometimes pushes it back" |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2046
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 14:25:00 -
[40] - Quote
Aaroniero d'Lioncourt wrote:CCP be like..
"I thought you fcks wanted the view changed back to 1.3, Now that it's been done, Why you fcks want 1.4 view now?"
Players be like..
"We had no choice but to adapt to 1.4 DS view since you mofos take a while to update and sometimes pushes it back" Well it's not exactly 1.3
Like I said, this has been different each time |
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Cy Clone1
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
259
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 14:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
They need to go back to the view before 1.4! It was near perfect, now I don't even bother with ds. It may not have been as cinematic of a view but It allowed you to see targets above, below, and in front with out obstruction. Its also nice to see where your landing. |
Jake Diesel
BIG BAD W0LVES
43
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 14:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cy Clone1 wrote:They need to go back to the view before 1.4! It was near perfect, now I don't even bother with ds. It may not have been as cinematic of a view but It allowed you to see targets above, below, and in front with out obstruction. Its also nice to see where your landing.
At this point, I hardly doubt CCP will ever get it right. They seem to have a very small "think-tank" (thinking out of the box) team that seams to understand the player base well. The best option as someone has already suggested is "options". Give pilots the choice to toggle view angles on the fly from all the variants previously provided. And perhaps have the pilots be able to lock-in favorite views so that they can toggle through just the ones they like instead of all. I swear, CCP needs a bigger team.
|
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2257
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 15:16:00 -
[43] - Quote
We need a first person view that looks "through" the hull via hull mounted cameras.
With that we can look in any direction wthout the ship obscuring our view from the cockpit location. The cockpit PoV would let us land and fly thorugh tight spots with a much better perspective. If I never have to deal with the flight camera getting stuck as I fly into a tight spot again it will be too soon. The cockpit PoV won't get hung up on walls because it won't be "outside" the ship.
The virtual view could include a sort of transparent hull for reference (and immersion), but it wouldn't obscure anything. We would finally have a perfect ability to be situationaly aware if we just look around.
The ultimate would be to add USB rudder pedals for yaw control so the "look" camera could take over the right joystick. That would let us do what real world pilots do, namely constantly look around to maintain situaltional awarness. |
Denchlad 7
Heavy Reign inc. Freek Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 15:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
I must admit, having had a go earlier, it doesn't seem too bad. The only real issue I've been having is navigating tight spaces, where the camera glitches into the wall and I may as well be wearing a blindfold for how much visibility I have. However, that being said, I've found it a lot easier to aim with than in 1.4, so I guess it's not too bad, but it's still not brilliant.
Maybe one day. :/ |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder.
431
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 15:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
Pulling up is the worst part, you can't see anything. Dropping down is difficult because you have to "guess" where you land or you damage your dropship. |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2052
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 20:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
day 2 entry: We've been stranded on island 1.5 for a couple days now. dropship butt is all we have in sight. there is little hope. BUT WAIT!!! Is there a horizon on the ship? I don't know, all I can see is ship. |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2056
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 15:08:00 -
[47] - Quote
Day 3.
Nothin but butt |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
6851
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 15:09:00 -
[48] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:Day 3.
Nothin but butt Ever notice how every patch they **** with dropships, and every patch it's never mentioned in the patch notes?
I think CCP has a gremlin who makes these changes seconds before the build goes through, and no one there is actually even aware of what's happening to dropships.
It's the best explanation I can come up with after a year and a half of this, it's the only logical answer. |
KenKaniff69
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
551
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 15:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Nguruthos IX wrote:Day 3.
Nothin but butt Ever notice how every patch they **** with dropships, and every patch it's never mentioned in the patch notes? I think CCP has a gremlin who makes these changes seconds before the build goes through, and no one there is actually even aware of what's happening to dropships. It's the best explanation I can come up with after a year and a half of this, it's the only logical answer. Why not just revert the camera to chrome for regular DS and the 1.4 camera for ADS? That would be perfect. |
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