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N7 Operative Anthony
warravens League of Infamy
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 06:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
So we all know that sp respecs will probably never come back. They're a pain in the butt for CCP and it takes up alot of time. However, what if CCP was given an incentive for respecs? For example, Spending aurum for a respec ticket. Now question is how much is something like this worth to us. I've asked around my corp and people replied that they would spend the money in a heartbeat if it meant getting that respec. Now I'm guessing something like 10 dollars is fair, or it could be scaled according to how much total life time sp you have. I know that once you go proto in something you eventually get bored and want to try something new. So tell me what you guys think, and please only post serious comments. N7 Operative Anthony out. |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1613
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 07:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
The main issue with buying respecs is that as the balance of the game and certain items become OP or the metagame favors a certain fitting the players who have money will buy the respecs and be able to whup the butts of anyone who doesn't re-allocate their SP into the new flavor of the month.
permanent SP allocation makes people have to think for a second on if they really want the skill or if it's not worth it to follow the pack. |
Thurak1
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
246
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 07:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
saying respecs are unbalanced because ccp releases unbalanced weapons is blaming the user for a manufacturing defect. |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1615
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 07:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:saying respecs are unbalanced because ccp releases unbalanced weapons is blaming the user for a manufacturing defect.
That's not so much the point I was trying to make. Do you really want to see everyone switching to the FOTM every time there is a shift due to a new weapon, a new balancing patch, or even someone simply finding out a counter to the old FOTM?
Swings like that kill diversity, seem like they would make the game pay to win, and would wreak absolute ******* havoc on the economy that will exist. The cons far outweigh the pros, IMO. |
medomai grey
warravens League of Infamy
185
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 07:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Problem with the proposed system is that people will keep switching to fit of the month causing any remaining diversity to die. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5616
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 07:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Why would you need a respec when you can just skill into something over time with the infinite SP we get? The only thing respecs do is allow people to max out something on the fly without actually taking the time to decide if its worth it or learning the strengths and weaknesses of what they're skilling into. |
Thurak1
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
246
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 08:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Talos Alomar wrote:Thurak1 wrote:saying respecs are unbalanced because ccp releases unbalanced weapons is blaming the user for a manufacturing defect. That's not so much the point I was trying to make. Do you really want to see everyone switching to the FOTM every time there is a shift due to a new weapon, a new balancing patch, or even someone simply finding out a counter to the old FOTM? Swings like that kill diversity, seem like they would make the game pay to win, and would wreak absolute ******* havoc on the economy that will exist. The cons far outweigh the pros, IMO. FOTM wouldn't be a problem if ccp would learn how to play test weapons. I stand by my original statement. |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
851
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 12:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:Talos Alomar wrote:Thurak1 wrote:saying respecs are unbalanced because ccp releases unbalanced weapons is blaming the user for a manufacturing defect. That's not so much the point I was trying to make. Do you really want to see everyone switching to the FOTM every time there is a shift due to a new weapon, a new balancing patch, or even someone simply finding out a counter to the old FOTM? Swings like that kill diversity, seem like they would make the game pay to win, and would wreak absolute ******* havoc on the economy that will exist. The cons far outweigh the pros, IMO. FOTM wouldn't be a problem if ccp would learn how to play test weapons. I stand by my original statement.
That is still a flawed argument. Yes, killing is fun. Yes, running with the FOTM makes killing easier. Yes, not having the FOTM sucks. If everyone who had money to burn could instantly switch to the FOTM this game would become a lot less fun for us all though. As it stands it takes most people a while to skill into those newly OP weapons which in theory gives CCP time to balance it. Not only would AUR respecs reduce the diversity of game play but it would give a massive advantage to players willing to pay to win.
While it is CCP's fault that there are imbalances it is the players who are responsible for manipulating those issues for the advantage the imbalance provides at the expense of others fun.
It is like the melee glitch. Arianna claims he will keep using it because it "is not a bug" even though CCP has clearly stated that it is. His actions reduce the fun of everyone else he plays against. That being said if people had AUR respecs there would be many more people using this bug, reducing the fun of everyone else in the game. Not only would people be crying and quitting in droves just because of the tactic but they would also be screaming that the game is pay-to-win, and none of us, including you, want that to be true. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4393
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 13:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Respecs for AURUM will only serve to further undermine CCP's claim that Dust is not pay to win. Players who don't have money will be left at a serious disadvantage when faced against players who have fat stacks. |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1619
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 14:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:Talos Alomar wrote:Thurak1 wrote:saying respecs are unbalanced because ccp releases unbalanced weapons is blaming the user for a manufacturing defect. That's not so much the point I was trying to make. Do you really want to see everyone switching to the FOTM every time there is a shift due to a new weapon, a new balancing patch, or even someone simply finding out a counter to the old FOTM? Swings like that kill diversity, seem like they would make the game pay to win, and would wreak absolute ******* havoc on the economy that will exist. The cons far outweigh the pros, IMO. FOTM wouldn't be a problem if ccp would learn how to play test weapons. I stand by my original statement.
And if my aunt had nuts she'd be my uncle.
No matter how thorough the testing and balancing the metagame will favor a certain fit or style, and either you've been chosen to have an edge or you've gotta adapt or die.
The adapt or die part is what I like about this game. Don't take it away from me. |
|
emm kay
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 00:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Respecs for AURUM will only serve to further undermine CCP's claim that Dust is not pay to win. Players who don't have money will be left at a serious disadvantage when faced against players who have fat stacks. "fat stacks" is something i do not have, however, CCP should get a run for their respecs. maybe every sunday 12 PM CST for american servers and 12 PM PST time for european servers there could be a contest where the *bottom* 100 players would get a respec, while the top 10 players would get an ISK reward? |
Thurak1
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
254
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 00:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:Thurak1 wrote:Talos Alomar wrote:Thurak1 wrote:saying respecs are unbalanced because ccp releases unbalanced weapons is blaming the user for a manufacturing defect. That's not so much the point I was trying to make. Do you really want to see everyone switching to the FOTM every time there is a shift due to a new weapon, a new balancing patch, or even someone simply finding out a counter to the old FOTM? Swings like that kill diversity, seem like they would make the game pay to win, and would wreak absolute ******* havoc on the economy that will exist. The cons far outweigh the pros, IMO. FOTM wouldn't be a problem if ccp would learn how to play test weapons. I stand by my original statement. That is still a flawed argument. Yes, killing is fun. Yes, running with the FOTM makes killing easier. Yes, not having the FOTM sucks. If everyone who had money to burn could instantly switch to the FOTM this game would become a lot less fun for us all though. As it stands it takes most people a while to skill into those newly OP weapons which in theory gives CCP time to balance it. Not only would AUR respecs reduce the diversity of game play but it would give a massive advantage to players willing to pay to win. While it is CCP's fault that there are imbalances it is the players who are responsible for manipulating those issues for the advantage the imbalance provides at the expense of others fun. It is like the melee glitch. Arianna claims he will keep using it because it "is not a bug" even though CCP has clearly stated that it is. His actions reduce the fun of everyone else he plays against. That being said if people had AUR respecs there would be many more people using this bug, reducing the fun of everyone else in the game. Not only would people be crying and quitting in droves just because of the tactic but they would also be screaming that the game is pay-to-win, and none of us, including you, want that to be true.
Respecing truly helps new players when ccp starts running around with the nerfing hammer. There are plenty of veteran players that have so many sp's that when something new is released or tweaked and is the new best weapon they will instantly spec into it. So you end up with players with some of the best gear going into whatever is the best killer at the time. This falls back directly on my original point and argument. Basically blame ccp the only thing that not allowing respecs does really is it gives players that already have tons of sp's an advantage when ccp releases broken gear. If ccp had a clue about play testing equipment before releasing it FOTM wouldnt be a problem. |
KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
792
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 02:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Right on time.
The eternal request to spend real world cash to allow those with cash to spend in a F2P game to fix their problems. While refusing to solve the problem universally.
Many of these posts have been posted and an equal number have been ignored. Expect nothing for this one, OP. |
lithkul devant
Legions of Infinite Dominion
96
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 03:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
The whole respecing whenever you want is stuipid if you are going to have a continuous character, however, people also realize at times they got screwed over especially after academy when they had no idea what in the heck they were doing and how in detail they have to read all the skills. So I am going to list what I think would be a great way for respecs to be like.
-free respec at 5m skill points (enough time for a player to get out of academy play around a little realize they f-ed up and respec) -free respec at player 3 month play time (After 3 months you realize how many more mistakes you made and very thankfully for this) -free respec when CCP decides they have switched enough things around to deserve one.
-Can pay for respec every 6 months, can only respec once during the six month period, excluding the free respects. (This would allow for people who just have to have the respec get what they wish for, however, they can't get it unless they wait long enough for it. This would make people hopefully be very careful with how they respec knowing that if they just do FOTM, they will be stuck that way even when the FOTM ends and they just paid for it.
I think this would be a fair and balanced system, where the newb is catered to for the mistakes they are going to make, so they don't feel they have to restart their char entirely. For the people willing to pay for the respec, this makes it so that they can not just choose the FOTM every new month, that this is a paid for second chance to get their skills right, where you could only do it 2 times per year max. |
Borne Velvalor
BLACK-DRAGON-SOCIETY
25
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 03:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Respecs are only a pain for CCP to hand out because they have not implemented them as a mechanic. They could easily add a button to the skill screen that makes your current SP your lifetime SP and sets all your skills to 0. Programmatically, it is undoubtedly cake to implement.
An Aurum fee is ludicrous, because it shifts the game towards P2W and rewards CCP for doing nothing. We shouldn't be "giving them an incentive" to do anything that is "difficult" when they are the ones that MAKE it difficult. It's like paying a guy to develop a piece of software ten times more than someone else because he insists on developing it with his TOES. Is that the consumer's fault? Of course not.
Here's how it should work. You get 2 respecs for your entire career and an additional one once a year, up to a maximum of 3 stocked. As long as you have a respec token, you go into the skill screen and press one button. Your SP is set to your lifetime SP, your skills zeroed out and a token removed. What an idea. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
171
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 03:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
lithkul devant wrote:The whole respecing whenever you want is stuipid if you are going to have a continuous character, however, people also realize at times they got screwed over especially after academy when they had no idea what in the heck they were doing and how in detail they have to read all the skills. So I am going to list what I think would be a great way for respecs to be like.
-free respec at 5m skill points (enough time for a player to get out of academy play around a little realize they f-ed up and respec) -free respec at player 3 month play time (After 3 months you realize how many more mistakes you made and very thankfully for this) -free respec when CCP decides they have switched enough things around to deserve one.
-Can pay for respec every 6 months, can only respec once during the six month period, excluding the free respects. (This would allow for people who just have to have the respec get what they wish for, however, they can't get it unless they wait long enough for it. This would make people hopefully be very careful with how they respec knowing that if they just do FOTM, they will be stuck that way even when the FOTM ends and they just paid for it.
I think this would be a fair and balanced system, where the newb is catered to for the mistakes they are going to make, so they don't feel they have to restart their char entirely. For the people willing to pay for the respec, this makes it so that they can not just choose the FOTM every new month, that this is a paid for second chance to get their skills right, where you could only do it 2 times per year max.
Respecs for noobs at X million SP: been proposed before, still a good idea.
Respecs when a whole crapton of changes get made (I.e., all the racial suits and weapons all come out at once): pretty reasonable
ANY variant of the P2W respec: Game breaking, hell to the f@cking no.
Respecs on some arbitrary rotating schedule - every year, every six months, every lunar eclipse, etc: No. Goes against the basic spirit of the game.
Almost any other respec proposal: Not feeling it. It would have to be VERY costly, losing 1/3 of your SP might be too little. |
lithkul devant
Legions of Infinite Dominion
96
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 04:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:lithkul devant wrote:The whole respecing whenever you want is stuipid if you are going to have a continuous character, however, people also realize at times they got screwed over especially after academy when they had no idea what in the heck they were doing and how in detail they have to read all the skills. So I am going to list what I think would be a great way for respecs to be like.
-free respec at 5m skill points (enough time for a player to get out of academy play around a little realize they f-ed up and respec) -free respec at player 3 month play time (After 3 months you realize how many more mistakes you made and very thankfully for this) -free respec when CCP decides they have switched enough things around to deserve one.
-Can pay for respec every 6 months, can only respec once during the six month period, excluding the free respects. (This would allow for people who just have to have the respec get what they wish for, however, they can't get it unless they wait long enough for it. This would make people hopefully be very careful with how they respec knowing that if they just do FOTM, they will be stuck that way even when the FOTM ends and they just paid for it.
I think this would be a fair and balanced system, where the newb is catered to for the mistakes they are going to make, so they don't feel they have to restart their char entirely. For the people willing to pay for the respec, this makes it so that they can not just choose the FOTM every new month, that this is a paid for second chance to get their skills right, where you could only do it 2 times per year max. Respecs for noobs at X million SP: been proposed before, still a good idea. Respecs when a whole crapton of changes get made (I.e., all the racial suits and weapons all come out at once): pretty reasonable ANY variant of the P2W respec: Game breaking, hell to the f@cking no. Respecs on some arbitrary rotating schedule - every year, every six months, every lunar eclipse, etc: No. Goes against the basic spirit of the game. Almost any other respec proposal: Not feeling it. It would have to be VERY costly, losing 1/3 of your SP might be too little.
Alright, fair enough, since respecs for Aurum would be as you say game breaking without it having a huge cost, what would be a sufficent enough sacrifice on the players behalf in order to have a respec. I am just asking so that I understand a base line of what to look for or how to incorporate respecs into the game yet retain the spirit of the game.
Would, taking 1/3 or 1/2 of the SP of the player be enough, if it was put into an SP pot that they had to play to earn back, similar to having an active sp booster yet it is only getting the points back that you previously had or are you talking about a flat out throwing away the points they got over possibly months? I can understand why you would not want the time sloted for respecs to be happening since as it has been mentioned the game is about continuous advancement and not being able to just reroll at any time you want to as this has been demonstrated on EvE where players can not just respec when they wish to. I hope to see a system or ideas from you or someone more on thee side against respecing what would be acceptable to do or use so that we can further the conversation.
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Borne Velvalor
BLACK-DRAGON-SOCIETY
27
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 05:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Respecs on some arbitrary rotating schedule - every year, every six months, every lunar eclipse, etc: No. Goes against the basic spirit of the game.
The "spirit of the game" thus far, at least through my eyes, has been waiting arbitrary lengths of time for things to happen, or paying lots of money to halve it. Whether its waiting months for your passive SP + capped active SP (which takes only about an hour a day) to reach several hundred thousand to gain a single percentage in some stat, months for an update, or whatnot.
Not that that's a good thing. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
371
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 06:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
The first one we had was good, having a second one is probably...well not a great idea |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4445
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 06:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
emm kay wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Respecs for AURUM will only serve to further undermine CCP's claim that Dust is not pay to win. Players who don't have money will be left at a serious disadvantage when faced against players who have fat stacks. "fat stacks" is something i do not have, however, CCP should get a run for their respecs. maybe every sunday 12 PM CST for american servers and 12 PM PST time for european servers there could be a contest where the *bottom* 100 players would get a respec, while the top 10 players would get an ISK reward?
That is utterly stupid. Giving respects for who is at the bottom? You're rewarding losers. That will take away any reason to even put any effort. |
|
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
175
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 12:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Borne Velvalor wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Respecs on some arbitrary rotating schedule - every year, every six months, every lunar eclipse, etc: No. Goes against the basic spirit of the game. The "spirit of the game" thus far, at least through my eyes, has been waiting arbitrary lengths of time for things to happen, or paying lots of money to halve it. Whether its waiting months for your passive SP + capped active SP (which takes only about an hour a day) to reach several hundred thousand to gain a single percentage in some stat, months for an update, or whatnot. Not that that's a good thing.
The SP cap is weekly, not daily? More to your point, I'm also in favor of uncapping newer players as well, so they can advance faster and catch up to the rest of us. |
Borne Velvalor
BLACK-DRAGON-SOCIETY
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 02:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Borne Velvalor wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Respecs on some arbitrary rotating schedule - every year, every six months, every lunar eclipse, etc: No. Goes against the basic spirit of the game. The "spirit of the game" thus far, at least through my eyes, has been waiting arbitrary lengths of time for things to happen, or paying lots of money to halve it. Whether its waiting months for your passive SP + capped active SP (which takes only about an hour a day) to reach several hundred thousand to gain a single percentage in some stat, months for an update, or whatnot. Not that that's a good thing. The SP cap is weekly, not daily? More to your point, I'm also in favor of uncapping newer players as well, so they can advance faster and catch up to the rest of us.
Sorry this is late.
Yes, the cap is weekly. My point was that it only takes an hour a day of play to reach the cap. When the cap was daily it was 50k a day, which placed the cap at almost twice what it is now, since that was 350k a week.
I couldn't play the game for a while and now I just feel like leaving until my SP reaches the total I need to spec into what I want. |
Meeko Fent
DUST University Ivy League
1102
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 02:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Anthony Commander, I'm sorry to say but Respecs break the skill system.
Use the search system on respecs, and look for one of my posts on respecs.
Does this Post have a soul? |
N7 Operative Anthony
WarRavens League of Infamy
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ok so I suppuse any repecs are out of the question. The only reason people think that a respec is of need is when a weapon is nerfed to death or the player no longer uses a weapon they previously skilled into. Sure variety is great, but this game rewards specialization into one role/weapon. Now if we gained SP at a better rate a respec wouldn't be mentioned. I cap every week and the rate at which I gain SP is substantially slow. Another thing, the way things look, this game could die out in the coming year. I want to enjoy playing Dust514 now, and in the best way possible. |
Xender17
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
769
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
That late at night moment when you come up with an idea that would fix everything... I forgot to right it down. |
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
1755
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Talos Alomar wrote:The main issue with buying respecs is that as the balance of the game and certain items become OP or the metagame favors a certain fitting the players who have money will buy the respecs and be able to whup the butts of anyone who doesn't re-allocate their SP into the new flavor of the month.
permanent SP allocation makes people have to think for a second on if they really want the skill or if it's not worth it to follow the pack.
invalid :
1--CCP gets so much needed money to continue the project 2--If a FOTM or ''OP'' item comes out: a) Everybody will have it so there will be no ''unbalance'' b)CCP will be able to locate the problem faster and there by fix it.
So in this case, respecs actually help. |
Ghost Kaisar
Pradox One
586
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:Problem with the proposed system is that people will keep switching to fit of the month causing any remaining diversity to die.
It might work if respec lost you a substantial percent of SP. Say 1/3 of SP is lost for respec?
I would actually take this deal. |
PADDEHATPIGEN
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
77
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 23:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
When all the missing stuff (dropsuits, weapons etc.) have come out, and ONLY then and NEVER Again.
NO AUR respecs. NO ISK respecs. NO once a year respecs. NO nothing respecs.
ONLY this one time, AFTER all the missing stuff have come.
I think this would only be fair to do so players can train dropsuits/weapons/etc. of the same race. |
DJINN Jecture
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
53
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 00:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
N7 Operative Anthony wrote:So we all know that sp respecs will probably never come back. They're a pain in the butt for CCP and it takes up alot of time. However, what if CCP was given an incentive for respecs? For example, Spending aurum for a respec ticket. Now question is how much is something like this worth to us. I've asked around my corp and people replied that they would spend the money in a heartbeat if it meant getting that respec. Now I'm guessing something like 10 dollars is fair, or it could be scaled according to how much total life time sp you have. I know that once you go proto in something you eventually get bored and want to try something new. So tell me what you guys think, and please only post serious comments. N7 Operative Anthony out. SP respecs do mess with balance as one of the previous posts has already indicated. In addition to messed balance it creates a constant shifting of who knows how to do what, and contrary to your opinion on it being something we need, it is nice to know ok X person can do this Y person can do this and they work well together in their respective roles. For a CEO planning PC matches this kind of knowledge is ideal and takes very little work to set things up for PC matches if a person keeps track of things. On the other hand if X person has say 20mil SP that he switches to something new once a month or once a week then they are not dependable if expected to play X role in a match. While having malleable SP able to be placed in any location at any time would make it easy to get your team ready it also take some practice to get good at a given role and in addition to that, without a market to sell gear, it is unlikely that any merc would have enough gear to keep themselves supplied after the third respec as they would require new suits, weapons, mods and vehicles depending on what they change after the respec. |
deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 03:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:Talos Alomar wrote:Thurak1 wrote:saying respecs are unbalanced because ccp releases unbalanced weapons is blaming the user for a manufacturing defect. That's not so much the point I was trying to make. Do you really want to see everyone switching to the FOTM every time there is a shift due to a new weapon, a new balancing patch, or even someone simply finding out a counter to the old FOTM? Swings like that kill diversity, seem like they would make the game pay to win, and would wreak absolute ******* havoc on the economy that will exist. The cons far outweigh the pros, IMO. FOTM wouldn't be a problem if ccp would learn how to play test weapons. I stand by my original statement. Hi ccp you messed up this weapon, gimme a respec so I can abuse it properly
On a side note if they made it cost say %150.00 Id be fine with it. Anyone willing to abuse that a lot is fine by me either very few will do it and not much will be affected or A lot will do it and ccp can get more staff and release a better product
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