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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4376
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 21:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dear CCP,
I have been patiently waiting on you guys to improve the nova knives. At first I was ecstatic to hear that the refactoring of the knives would come in 1.5 but then the recent news came in from you guys saying that the refactoring got set back until 1.6 or even 1.7. At first the nova knives (back in Codex build) use to be a crappy weapon until you introduced the ability to do instant slashes during Uprising 1.0 and buffed up the damage at the same time which made them almost completely viable for PC battles.
Notice I said "almost" in that last sentence.
But there are still major problems with the knives and recommended solutions. Here, let me list them all for you.
1. Hit Detection: Many veteran ninja knifers out there have constantly reported that they were able to do full-charged attacks on a stationary enemy merc only to see that the target has suffered no damage and then turns around and shoots the knifer in the face. I don't know what's causing this problem so I can't come up with a solution to this.
2. Missing a Sprinting Target: This is a very common problem. So common that there is absolutely no ninja out there who hasn't experienced this at least 3 times in every match. We have no problem catching up to a slow target like an assault and a heavy (we're fast as hell). We catch up so much and get so close that the target's back is filling most of our screen. At this point you would think that an instant attack should do damage. It doesn't. What happens here is that as soon as we tap the trigger button, the sprint gets interrupted while at the same time there is a tiny delay between the tapping of the trigger and the start of the slash animation. By the time we swing our knives, the target is already 1 foot too far to suffer any damage. What I suggest is that you let us continue sprinting even when swiping.
3. Missing a Side-Stepping Target: We still have this problem. Supposedly the attack-arc for the knives was increased a few updates ago but that doesn't seem to be enough apparently. We still seem to miss our target as soon as the enemy steps one or two feet to either side. This should be happening as our arms are generally about at least 2 feet long and the blades of the nova knives look like they're about a 9 inches to a foot long. The attack-arc should be widened to about 160-180 degrees so that we can at least ensure that one of our blades strikes the target.
4. Freeze Knife: The nova knives appear to freeze momentarily whenever we use the instant attack three consecutive times in a single moment. I don't know what's causing this but it needs to stop because this is causing me to get killed too much. Nothing pisses me off more than just helplessly waiting for my knives to move while my target is shooting at me.
5. Unable to Sprint with the Charged Knives: This is a no-brainer. It makes no sense that I have to walk to my target with charged knives while the target can just backpedal to match my speed. I have to use a weapon-swap glitch to sprint with the charged knives. The sprint-charge should be a feature for the knives, not a glitch. Especially considering that scout suits are no longer able to speed tank since 1.4 came out.
If you can address at least 3 of the 5 problems listed above, I'll be a happy knifer. |
Dominus Fatali
Nox Aeterna Security
308
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 21:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
I support this thread, though I don't use Nova Knives myself, on behalf of my Scout brethren. |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
158
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 22:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 |
Talos Vagheitan
King Slayers
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 03:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm not a Nova Knifer, but I definitely respect how cool of a weapon they are! Hell, I think they're cool enough to be a selling point for this game. So in that respect, it's good for everyone if CCP gets these weapons right.
I dout anyone wants or expects these weapons to be easy to use, but they should be highly effective with a skilled scout. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4386
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 03:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:I'm not a Nova Knifer, but I definitely respect how cool of a weapon they are! Hell, I think they're cool enough to be a selling point for this game. So in that respect, it's good for everyone if CCP gets these weapons right.
I dout anyone wants or expects these weapons to be easy to use, but they should be highly effective with a skilled scout.
That is the whole point of the nova knives. They are the type of weapons that in the hands of a novice are just backup sidearms at best but can easily become a butcher's favorite in the hands of a dedicated professional. They are basically niche weapons and that is what drew me to them in the first place. They are also the type of weapon that presents a challenge while pumping your adrenaline when using them.
If CCP can fix the problems that I mentioned sooner rather than soon then I can finally see a comeback for the knifing pros while drawing in potential recruits who like a challenge. |
Ghost Kaisar
Pradox One
402
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 05:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan[b wrote:I doubt anyone wants or expects these weapons to be easy to use, but they should be highly effective with a skilled scout.[/b]
I'll put this simply.
Nova Knives are effective. IF they hit the target. (HERP-A-DERP common sense, just hear me out)
Seriously, once I corner a target, or when they are standing still, killing with the knives is flat out easy. HOWEVER, killing a moving target is dang near impossible. Due to a narrow FOV in the game, and the high strafe speeds, sneaking up to an opponent in combat and actually HITTING them with the knives is freaking difficult. Only idiots stand still in combat, and playing against vets it's hard to find a time when they AREN'T moving.
If they do incorporate the lunge, then I will consider the Nova Knives fixed (with fixed hit detection).
The damage is spot on. To use them as a strong sidearm, they have to be Proto. You may see some med frames using ADV Knives if they add the lunge, but they won't be able to deal enough damage to be like COD.
Minnie scouts, on the other hand (or Gallente's with Damage mods) can easily kill with a single charged slash.
IF they incorporate the lunge, I would ask that it only apply to fully charged Knife attacks. It will also be limited to one slash.
For a Scout, one solid charged hit should be enough. And if not, our rapid charge speed with knives should allow us to quickly finish him off. We will actually be EFFECTIVE CQC combatants. |
Valerie Viever
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
15
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 05:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Please bring on sprinting attacks and sprinting charging. I specced into the knives looking for a good time, but was woefully disappointed. Please fix CCP! |
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
187
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 05:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
+1 don't understand why they are now broken and need to be fixed. They worked fine in 1.4 amd we shouldn't have to wait three months to use a weapon we specifically skilled in. |
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
989
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 10:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Adding this to my list of important threads.
Will do so once I get back on a computer. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4393
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 11:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thanks for the support guys. At the very least we should get these issues onto the weekly feedback updates if possible. I hope a dev is reading this. |
|
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
189
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 23:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
I wish I could slice people...would make me happy
bump. |
watcher 19
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 23:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Im not trying to bash on your forum or anything but if ccp is ignoring the issues and complaints about the races being incomplete i dont think they'll focus on this issue either. Again im not trying to troll or ruin your post but im just saying. I love nova knives by the way |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4399
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 23:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
watcher 19 wrote:Im not trying to bash on your forum or anything but if ccp is ignoring the issues and complaints about the races being incomplete i dont think they'll focus on this issue either. Again im not trying to troll or ruin your post but im just saying. I love nova knives by the way
It is understandable. Considering that vehicle players are looking quite shafted recently I have my doubts as well. But none the less we should keep pushing until they hear us out. |
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
189
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 05:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bump for fixing nova knife hit detection and making them consistent again.
Do you need video evidence.? I can provide it.
Perhaps a fail montage is on order. |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1454
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 08:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote: Perhaps a fail montage is on order.
That'd be awesome. Frustrating, but awesome. Let me know if you need a spotter :-)
|
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1454
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 08:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Just in Case:
CCP Wolfman wrote: In 1.6 there are further improvements to hit detection as well as some specific improvements for the shotgun and the Nova Knives.
[Promise?]
These fixes should be a safe bet (famous last words)
[But last time ...]
It's unfortunate but sometimes these things happen in development. I can preface comments with 'should be in' but I'd rather not stop talking about what we're aiming to do. In the case of these hit detection improvements I'm pretty sure they'll be in (since they were submitted to the branch on Friday and have tested well so far) but I'll not know 100% until the build is locked down, gone through testing, submission etc.
Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1344781#post1344781 |
Smooth Assassin
Stardust incorporation
215
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 14:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Dear CCP,
I have been patiently waiting on you guys to improve the nova knives. At first I was ecstatic to hear that the refactoring of the knives would come in 1.5 but then the recent news came in from you guys saying that the refactoring got set back until 1.6 or even 1.7. At first the nova knives (back in Codex build) use to be a crappy weapon until you introduced the ability to do instant slashes during Uprising 1.0 and buffed up the damage at the same time which made them almost completely viable for PC battles.
Notice I said "almost" in that last sentence.
But there are still major problems with the knives and recommended solutions. Here, let me list them all for you.
1. Hit Detection: Many veteran ninja knifers out there have constantly reported that they were able to do full-charged attacks on a stationary enemy merc only to see that the target has suffered no damage and then turns around and shoots the knifer in the face. I don't know what's causing this problem so I can't come up with a solution to this.
2. Missing a Sprinting Target: This is a very common problem. So common that there is absolutely no ninja out there who hasn't experienced this at least 3 times in every match. We have no problem catching up to a slow target like an assault and a heavy (we're fast as hell). We catch up so much and get so close that the target's back is filling most of our screen. At this point you would think that an instant attack should do damage. It doesn't. What happens here is that as soon as we tap the trigger button, the sprint gets interrupted while at the same time there is a tiny delay between the tapping of the trigger and the start of the slash animation. By the time we swing our knives, the target is already 1 foot too far to suffer any damage. What I suggest is that you let us continue sprinting even when swiping.
3. Missing a Side-Stepping Target: We still have this problem. Supposedly the attack-arc for the knives was increased a few updates ago but that doesn't seem to be enough apparently. We still seem to miss our target as soon as the enemy steps one or two feet to either side. This shouldn't be happening as our arms are generally about at least 2 feet long and the blades of the nova knives look like they're about a 9 inches to a foot long. The attack-arc should be widened to about 160-180 degrees so that we can at least ensure that one of our blades strikes the target.
4. Freeze Knife: The nova knives appear to freeze momentarily whenever we use the instant attack three consecutive times in a single moment. I don't know what's causing this but it needs to stop because this is causing me to get killed too much. Nothing pisses me off more than just helplessly waiting for my knives to move while my target is shooting at me.
5. Unable to Sprint with the Charged Knives: This is a no-brainer. It makes no sense that I have to walk to my target with charged knives while the target can just backpedal to match my speed. I have to use a weapon-swap glitch to sprint with the charged knives. The sprint-charge should be a feature for the knives, not a glitch. Especially considering that scout suits are no longer able to speed tank since 1.4 came out.
If you can address at least 3 of the 5 problems listed above, I'll be a happy knifer. Sprint charge is broken because it works the same system as the forge gun |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
298
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 18:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Signed, love Nova knifes but all these issues stop me using them. |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
298
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 18:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
People walking backwards so fast is also annoying |
OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
794
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 00:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
I ve moved into other weapons because of this for now, two weeks ago most of my deaths in game were do to knives not functioning properly . Last night I brought them for a spin an did well with them, but due to speed not being a factor it's harder to combat kill with them instead now days they work better for killing stupid players, since now their seems to be more educated players, I believe nk needs to re balanced to be able to strike these more veteran players.
If I get behind or close enough to a seriously good player, my knives better work. It's not a weapon that can fail on performance |
|
Meeko Fent
DUST University Ivy League
1076
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 00:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Fix HD.
That's all that's wrong with them from my knowledge.
Ta-da.
Just watch the threads of "the NK's are OP!"
Lawl. |
Joel II X
AHPA
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 00:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
I wish there was a love button for this thread. As a knifer myself, I find myself only using them to sprint because I can't really use them anywhere else but killing an opponent hacking something. Sometimes not even that much because of the hit detection. Running with charged knives is all I need besides the better hit detection. |
Niuvo
The Phoenix Federation
598
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 03:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nova Knifing is a different game all together. It takes skill and brains. It's almost perfect, it needs minor tweaks.
As mentioned before_sprint-charge will be what we need. Scout-only cloak. I switch to equipment, cloak, and switch to the knives while still being cloaked.
I enjoy running to my victims, I don't think the lunge mechanic will be needed. I feel better doing the running and the final charge attack uninterrupted.
If I did all the work to flank the victim, a knife kill should be ensured. We don't want a cod or bf knife mechanic. no way. The way ya'll have it is unique and rewarding. CCP, think like a futuristic assassin who uses knives as his/her silent weapon.
Also, a small cosmetic glow to the knives when they are charged will be welcomed.
if you need a knife buddy, I'm here for you Maken. |
Niuvo
The Phoenix Federation
598
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 03:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Bump for fixing nova knife hit detection and making them consistent again.
Do you need video evidence.? I can provide it.
Perhaps a fail montage is on order. Please put funny music in the background lol |
Niuvo
The Phoenix Federation
598
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 03:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:People walking backwards so fast is also annoying YEEEEEESSSS THEY AREEEE. I've died countless times to this crap. |
Ghost Kaisar
Pradox One
429
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 07:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Niuvo wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:People walking backwards so fast is also annoying YEEEEEESSSS THEY AREEEE. I've died countless times to this crap.
Only thing more annoying is the Heavies that are ballerina's on the inside.
"Look at me pirouette! LOOK HOW FAST I TURN!" |
OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
795
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Fix HD.
That's all that's wrong with them from my knowledge.
Ta-da.
Just watch the threads of "the NK's are OP!"
Lawl. Dude if they worked to the point where you didn't miss when your right there that's exactly what would happen lol. Getting behind them is easy killing first swing is the hard part lol |
Amuf Oratok
Eliters RUST415
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 15:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Dear CCP,
I have been patiently waiting on you guys to improve the nova knives. At first I was ecstatic to hear that the refactoring of the knives would come in 1.5 but then the recent news came in from you guys saying that the refactoring got set back until 1.6 or even 1.7. At first the nova knives (back in Codex build) use to be a crappy weapon until you introduced the ability to do instant slashes during Uprising 1.0 and buffed up the damage at the same time which made them almost completely viable for PC battles.
Notice I said "almost" in that last sentence.
But there are still major problems with the knives and recommended solutions. Here, let me list them all for you.
1. Hit Detection: Many veteran ninja knifers out there have constantly reported that they were able to do full-charged attacks on a stationary enemy merc only to see that the target has suffered no damage and then turns around and shoots the knifer in the face. I don't know what's causing this problem so I can't come up with a solution to this.
2. Missing a Sprinting Target: This is a very common problem. So common that there is absolutely no ninja out there who hasn't experienced this at least 3 times in every match. We have no problem catching up to a slow target like an assault and a heavy (we're fast as hell). We catch up so much and get so close that the target's back is filling most of our screen. At this point you would think that an instant attack should do damage. It doesn't. What happens here is that as soon as we tap the trigger button, the sprint gets interrupted while at the same time there is a tiny delay between the tapping of the trigger and the start of the slash animation. By the time we swing our knives, the target is already 1 foot too far to suffer any damage. What I suggest is that you let us continue sprinting even when swiping.
3. Missing a Side-Stepping Target: We still have this problem. Supposedly the attack-arc for the knives was increased a few updates ago but that doesn't seem to be enough apparently. We still seem to miss our target as soon as the enemy steps one or two feet to either side. This shouldn't be happening as our arms are generally about at least 2 feet long and the blades of the nova knives look like they're about a 9 inches to a foot long. The attack-arc should be widened to about 160-180 degrees so that we can at least ensure that one of our blades strikes the target.
4. Freeze Knife: The nova knives appear to freeze momentarily whenever we use the instant attack three consecutive times in a single moment. I don't know what's causing this but it needs to stop because this is causing me to get killed too much. Nothing pisses me off more than just helplessly waiting for my knives to move while my target is shooting at me.
5. Unable to Sprint with the Charged Knives: This is a no-brainer. It makes no sense that I have to walk to my target with charged knives while the target can just backpedal to match my speed. I have to use a weapon-swap glitch to sprint with the charged knives. The sprint-charge should be a feature for the knives, not a glitch. Especially considering that scout suits are no longer able to speed tank since 1.4 came out.
If you can address at least 3 of the 5 problems listed above, I'll be a happy knifer.
Amen to that. Charged sprint attacks could consume extra stamina, I wouldn't mind. Also, we have an unused button: L1 (aiming). I'd suggest a nerfed target-lock or the knives could produce a protective field (a bit anime-ish, protecting yourself with blades against bullets).
|
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
395
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 15:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
the hit problems with nova knives is what makes them balanced.
ofcourse.. if there was a game mod only players could use heavy suits an nova knives... |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
110
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 13:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:I'm not a Nova Knifer, but I definitely respect how cool of a weapon they are! Hell, I think they're cool enough to be a selling point for this game. So in that respect, it's good for everyone if CCP gets these weapons right.
I dout anyone wants or expects these weapons to be easy to use, but they should be highly effective with a skilled scout. That is the whole point of the nova knives. They are the type of weapons that in the hands of a novice are just backup sidearms at best but can easily become a butcher's favorite in the hands of a dedicated professional. They are basically niche weapons and that is what drew me to them in the first place. They are also the type of weapon that presents a challenge while pumping your adrenaline when using them. If CCP can fix the problems that I mentioned sooner rather than soon then I can finally see a comeback for the knifing pros while drawing in potential recruits who like a challenge.
Yes and the scouts in between recruit and pro would be really happy too! (me)
adrenaline rush? check stealthy attack? check minmatar scout skill tree investment at L4? check working as intended? please fix
PS. "Sooner rather than soon" - nice one!
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