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[Request] START OVER!

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alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 52	Posted - 2013.10.03 20:34:00 - [1] - Quote tl:dr - You launched a game that shouldn't even be in Alpha testing. Now you pay the price as your customers realize they have been deceived and flock to other Major Competitors. You have one chance to redeem yourself by following My Recommendations and START OVER. You may have to go the route of Final Fantasy XIV. Dear DUST 514 Devs, Your vision currently exceeds your production capacity. You have over-promised and vastly under-delivered. You are alienating your player base at an alarming rate. As a long-time EVE Pilot, and a Dust 514 Merc since closed beta, I ask you this: What can you offer me that the following list of games cannot do better and in a more timely manner? I've already walked away from Dust 514 numerous times. Each time I come back for a shorter period of time. Eventually I will never return, unless you completely rethink your development approach. Please make good use of the money I have already sent you, because you will not be getting any more till you deliver the amazing game you promised. Major Competitors to Dust 514 Battlefield 4 - October 29, 2013. Arena based combat with a good balance of infantry and vehicular combat. Ability to select maps that are vehicle heavy or infantry heavy. PVP/PVE Call of Duty: Ghosts - November 5, 2013. Arena based infantry combat. AR users rejoice. PVP/PVE Planetside 2 PS4 - December 2013: Already a great game, soon on PS4. Open world combat with a good balance of infantry and vehicular combat. PVP only, but done so well. Titanfall - Early 2014: A FPS with Mech warriors by the developers of COD:MW2. PVP Destiny 2014: Open world MMO style shooter. These guys brought us Halo, what more can be said. PVP/PVE The Division 2014: Open world MMO style 3p shooter. An amazing concept. PVP/PVE Star Citizen 2015: 1p/3p Space sim where your character can fight on board ships, on space stations, and on planets. PVP/PVE with both spaceship AND ground combat. My Recommendation: START OVER You should never have "Launched" the game, at most it should be in alpha. You already messed that up, but you have a chance to redeem yourself. o Hire a new production manager who knows the FPS industry and knows how to manage a programming team. o Hire experienced FPS developers/programmers who know the FPS industry and have a proven ability to deliver top-notch content. o Divert more money from CCP Reykjavik. You will not long be able to fund CCP Shanghai based solely on your efforts o Stop trying to fix the broken system you have currently (you are only making things worse) o Split your studio into two teams: Current DUST 514 and Future DUST 514 o The Current DUST team will exclusively work on patches that improve the core FPS mechanics; Lag, controls, rendering, optimization, hit-detection, shooter mechanics, etc. Release these updates to your current DUST 514 player base as they are ready. o The Future DUST team will START OVER by doing the following. o Remove all tiers except for militia and standard. o Introduce all racial skills, dropsuits, modules, equipment, weapons, and vehicle classes. o Balance the game with all elements introduced but only one tier of technology/complexity o Merge the optimization efforts of the Current DUST team, with the content of the Future DUST team o Refund all player SP and release the NEW DUST 514 with all the advantages of core mechanic optimization AND fully featured content. o Let the players stress test your optimization efforts and content efforts BEFORE you introduce ADV and PRO tiers. o Now that you have a solid base of FPS core mechanics and well balanced content, you can begin to add additional tiers and features o Only introduce ONE tier at a time, and introduce that tier ACROSS THE BOARD! Every weapon, every module, every dropsuit, every vehicle gets the next tier AT THE SAME TIME! This way you have a solid, well-tested base to build on, and can focus on balancing only the effectiveness of the newly introduced tier of equipment. o Welcome to the DUST 514 you always should have been.
Klash 816 Sanguis Defense Syndicate 57	Posted - 2013.10.03 20:50:00 - [2] - Quote @ OP: No! that is all.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 874	Posted - 2013.10.03 21:07:00 - [3] - Quote Some of the points you make amidst the rambling madness are correct. The state of the game is hurtful in some cases, but starting over is not the way to go. Why? Because both business-wise and financially, it simply isn't a viable option. Recalling products or completely redesigning them to replace current ones always ends in disaster. CCP did hire programmers who know the FPS share, they do funnel quite a few funds from Iceland Office to Shanghai to get the job done. They will eventually achieve their vision of what DUST should be. Don't get me wrong, I sympathize with your position, and on many occasions I have come up with similar rants. One recently where I posted old 2009 footage of gameplay that looked like the game we want to play, not the one we have. But in seriousness, CCP may be blundering into a few walls trying to get certain things done, but they will get there. And 'suggestions' like this wont help them. You are much better off posting helpful suggestions or even 'out there' ideas on how to improve what they have, rather than call for the scrapping of the game, and waling when it doesn't happen. CCP has not met many of their goals in relation to DUST 514, we all know this, and if you don't then a little research on Youtube or in reviews will quickly tell you what they didn't achieve. But that doesn't mean they will not achieve it. There was this story, of a company that wanted to make a huge space sim, but wanted it to be a single shard server. There were hiccups, they got laughed at by many game designers, but 10 years ago, they released EVE Online. EVE Online went through many growing pains, it had bugs, there were cracks, and the gameplay was skewed, but years later, they finally managed to get that under control and now the game is one of the deepest, most complex space simulations out there. DUST will likely follow a similar path. While as an FPS, and more so, a console game, this approach may seem iffy, the game will eventually get to the point where a 'relaunch' does happen, and people will come back to try it out. I'm by no means a CCP fan boy. I love their games, but I'm not adverse to telling them where they went wrong. DUST 514 is experiencing growing pains, but through those pains, the game itself will be something unique in a genre that really offers little unique aspects.
Jason Punk DUST University Ivy League 259	Posted - 2013.10.03 21:07:00 - [4] - Quote I'm sorry hilten, but I got to agree with Klash. Could not possibly be convinced this is a good idea...even facetiously X)
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4378	Posted - 2013.10.03 21:09:00 - [5] - Quote This is a bad idea. Under this logic, Eve Online should not have been released until way after 2003.
zibathy numbertwo Nox Aeterna Security 183	Posted - 2013.10.03 21:11:00 - [6] - Quote alten hilt wrote: semi-valid points/suggestions DURRRRRRRR TIERICIDE!!!!! **** off. If I could -1 I would, you inbred. Go play the other games you listed. The tiers for dropsuits will never be removed. Please off yourself.
IceShifter Childhaspawn DUST University Ivy League 303	Posted - 2013.10.03 23:25:00 - [7] - Quote We all feel your pain. An evolving shooter is definitely not for the faint of heart. CCP paints the game like a giant work of art. We may not agree with it, or appreciate it, but we are allowed to play on it. The way that they do these things, removal and eventual return, is the only way to achieve their goals of balance. Their method allows them to monitor the effect of the removal as well as the overall change to that type of game play. Its not the gear that makes people OP, its the sheer numbers at uneven intervals. If we had a militia only gamemode it would be drastically different. Taking the game 'back to formula' would be devastating and unnecessary, think of the game more like art than a standard game bundle.
Draco Cerberus Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 357	Posted - 2013.10.04 01:40:00 - [8] - Quote alten hilt, You seem to be under the impression that the standard suits did not go through the optimization and balancing phase before the other suits were released. This occurred during Closed Beta, which it seems you were not a part of. As for competition in its genre of game, Dust 514 stands alone. This is not a comment which I make lightly, I considered the listed games and tried to find a single one that was able to give me both a FPS platform as well as a space flight platform at the same time running on both a single shard server and yet on two completely different platforms and could find none that could come close to what CCP has planned for this game. Yes this game is incomplete. Yes there are Bugs and a lack of completeness at the moment but as it stands currently, I feel that this game has moved well beyond where it started in Closed Beta, beyond the Open Beta rigors of testing the tiers of suits after having only general suits for about a year of testing and into Uprising with a good hold on what the core game functionality needs to have to make the endeavor possible. As far as new stuff that needs to get into the game, such as suits and vehicles we are still missing, in Dev time 6 months is soon. When they say we are putting this in soon it means in the next 6 months or so, not tomorrow or 5 minutes from now, even if thats how soon we want a feature. Give them time to make the game and you will be well rewarded, CCP knows how to make games. Going back to day one is not an option at this point, as much as you may feel something is unfair, the game is based on tactical choices, not who has the biggest set of balls. I recommend you offer suggestions to improve the game, ideas are welcome and usually when some idea is suggested it is evaluated for validity as well as practicality and quite often those ideas that are both get implemented by Devs within the soon period of time. Thanks for your input, --Draco Cerberus
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 53	Posted - 2013.10.04 02:00:00 - [9] - Quote Please note: I never said anything about scraping code. Only starting over. Perhaps I should have said, "Rethink your design and production strategy" because my post is not about starting with a completely blank slate: It's about addressing the failure of the current design and production strategy. DUST 514 is a complex and deeply engaging FPS...in principal. Multiple player archtypes each with their own customizable roles, with four factions each with their own interpretation of those archtypes, and player ability to customize their role through various modules, skills, and vehicles. Combine that with integration into the Eve Universe and you have an a one-of-a-kind shooter. But CCP is shooting this vision in the foot, and it all comes down to their development strategy. While building a limited demo, with partially integrated features is a great way to build a proof of concept, once that proof of concept is proven valid, you need to immediately construct the remaining base structure of the concept. In other words, CCP needed to get the other races, basic dropsuits, and basic vehicles into the game before they started adding module tiers and specialized classes/ vehicles. Then with this foundation CCP could have started developing the more advanced parts of the game. The current strategy of introducing part of the core gameplay one at a time results in a system where every new iteration results in more problems than it solves. So despite CCP's attempt to move forward, they keep getting bogged down in problems they introduced earlier. Just look at the new dev post about vehicles. Look at the content they have introduced, then "temporarily removed" for balance's sake . Look at the number of patches that are nothing more than an attempt to correct balance issues because they only introduced a small part of a complex feature set. You need to have a good foundation and a good skeletal structure before you can build a project as rich and deep as Dust 514. Right now Dust has half a skeleton, and ccp spends most of it's time trying to prop it up instead of building it up. I appreciate those who took the time to respectfully voice their opinions. You are a rare breed and I salute you o7.
low genius the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance 617	Posted - 2013.10.04 02:23:00 - [10] - Quote another dust uni jagoff. thanks for stopping by with a qq thread. we'll put that one on the stack.

low genius the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance 617	Posted - 2013.10.04 02:25:00 - [11] - Quote IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote: We all feel your pain. An evolving shooter is definitely not for the faint of heart. CCP paints the game like a giant work of art. We may not agree with it, or appreciate it, but we are allowed to play on it. The way that they do these things, removal and eventual return, is the only way to achieve their goals of balance. Their method allows them to monitor the effect of the removal as well as the overall change to that type of game play. Its not the gear that makes people OP, its the sheer numbers at uneven intervals. If we had a militia only gamemode it would be drastically different. Taking the game 'back to formula' would be devastating and unnecessary, think of the game more like art than a standard game bundle. i'm sorry, are dust uni guys making cogent and rational statements now? something is weird.
Talos Vagheitan King Slayers 33	Posted - 2013.10.04 02:34:00 - [12] - Quote Dust is arguably the most ambitious shooter ever attempted. It is also a continually improving work in progress. There are things in this game that could use improvement, and there will be roadbumps along the way. You can choose to be apart of it's evolution, choose not to be, or in your case, come to the forums and post a rambling QQ thread bashing the developers. Whatever you choose, the rest of us will not only be playing, but helping to steer this game in the direction in needs to go.
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 53	Posted - 2013.10.04 02:50:00 - [13] - Quote low genius wrote: another dust uni jagoff. thanks for stopping by with a qq thread. we'll put that one on the stack. Respectfully, QQ about a QQ thread is worse.
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 53	Posted - 2013.10.04 02:54:00 - [14] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Dust is arguably the most ambitious shooter ever attempted. It is also a continually improving work in progress. There are things in this game that could use improvement, and there will be roadbumps along the way. You can choose to be apart of it's evolution, choose not to be, or in your case, come to the forums and post a rambling QQ thread bashing the developers. Whatever you choose, the rest of us will not only be playing, but helping to steer this game in the direction in needs to go. So how is pointing out, and then recommending solutions for, a problem with the core development strategy any different than a post about how HAV shields are broken, or how Flaylock pistols were broken, or any other aspect of the game? There is nothing sacred about how the game is being developed. If that development philosophy is the core problem to all the other problems, then the best thing to do is address the root of the issue, not waste time hacking at the branches.
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 53	Posted - 2013.10.04 02:55:00 - [15] - Quote low genius wrote: i'm sorry, are dust uni guys making cogent and rational statements now? something is weird. Please take your disrespect elsewhere.
IceShifter Childhaspawn DUST University Ivy League 306	Posted - 2013.10.04 03:06:00 - [16] - Quote low genius wrote: IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote: We all feel your pain. An evolving shooter is definitely not for the faint of heart. CCP paints the game like a giant work of art. We may not agree with it, or appreciate it, but we are allowed to play on it. The way that they do these things, removal and eventual return, is the only way to achieve their goals of balance. Their method allows them to monitor the effect of the removal as well as the overall change to that type of game play. Its not the gear that makes people OP, its the sheer numbers at uneven intervals. If we had a militia only gamemode it would be drastically different. Taking the game 'back to formula' would be devastating and unnecessary, think of the game more like art than a standard game bundle. i'm sorry, are dust uni guys making cogent and rational statements now? something is weird. If our manner of polite speech is unsettling, please go elsewhere. I am sure you can find many threads with censored words. If we do not present our thought coherently we may be irate but at the very least we attempt to communicate. Leaving others to ponder what words fit under six stars is a waste of time.
stel watcher Dogz O War D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 0	Posted - 2013.10.04 22:26:00 - [17] - Quote im going to go into instant rage if the next update does not give me my minimatar tank and dropsuit AGGG IM SO SICK OF THIS GAME BEING INCOMPLETE SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS ISSUE ALREADY BECAUSE I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!


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