DUST Search - Give Scout Suits Squad Vision

Chunky Munkey wrote:

Toby Flenderson wrote:

Chunky Munkey wrote:

1. You've assumed I don't want scouts to be rewards for their efforts.
Don't do that.
2. The clue is in the title: scout. Just because CCP haven't been very good at making it work, it isn't an argument in favour of commandeering the suit for something else. If that was the case, the early WP-less Chromosome logis should have seen an entire redesign towards alternate assaults too.
3. No they don't. Heavies don't get equipment. Logis don't get forge guns. You're making an argument I've literally just addressed in that same post. We're entitled to do what we want with a suit, we aren't entitled to have the suit's design decisions tailored to something other than its intended role.

1. How does any argument I make assume that? The only assumption in that post is an open one about your tactics in skirmish. The only reference to scouts in that bullet was that they don't identify enemies any better than any other class unless they use an active scanner. I'm starting to think you're just trolling me with your logic.
2. Now i'm positive you're trolling me. I revert back to my "chef" suit argument for this. The name of the suit means nothing if the makers did not give it "scout-like" attributes. By your logic if they renamed the heavy suit "scout" then people using them as they are now would be wrong to do so because it wasn't "intended" to be used that way.
3. Yes they do. Hahaha. If I run a heavy suit, I can use it however I want. Everyone has that right. If you can fit it, you can use it. Heavies not having equipment slots does not limit people to how they can run the suit. It doesn't mean they can't be a support character if that's what the user wants to do. It doesn't mean they can't be a scout if that's what they want it to. The reason people don't is because they have poor scout attributes. The irony here is that you refuse to believe that scout suits have bad scout attributes because they have "scout" in the name while completely ignoring the reality of the suit itself. It's also funny that you're the one in favor of tailoring the suit to your vision of the intended role. I'm not trying to get any changes done to the suit, as you can see I'm oppose to the change.

1. You criticised my position on account of it requiring scouts to be selfless. If I want scouts rewarded for their work, your argument is moot. So either you were making the assumption, or you were making no sense. Which was it?
2. So your argument is that a scout suit shouldn't have scouting abilities because it doesn't currently have very good scouting abilities.
3. You're agreeing with me here. I don't think you've realised it though.


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OZAROW warravens League of Infamy 782	Posted - 2013.10.03 03:06:00 - [1] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: I think it would be useful to give people using scout suits a native squad vision ability that they don't have to equip a scanner for. If the scout can see it, then the whole squad should be able to see it, too. Kinda what a scout is for. Spotting bad guys. Munch I have vision it's called scan an range percision, why would I or any other scout want to share all my valuable spend sp? So your AR can use me as bait while you shoot at everyone I sneak up on getting me killed? I have a proto active scanner , that's shared enough. If I could shut off shared vision when I want to then fine , but no way in hell should it be perminatly running , it would get us killed!
OZAROW warravens League of Infamy 785	Posted - 2013.10.03 19:10:00 - [2] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Toby Flenderson wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: As a scout, hell no! Why does a logi get to be logi + slayer + tank and scout has to be a spotting b!tch for that logi? No. Give scouts vision of all squad member rather than giving the squad intel on what scout is seeing, then I'll call it fair. What a bunch of selfish bast*rds you all are. You'd be helping your team! Actually scouting! Did you folks pick scout just as an alternate combat setup? Scouts are at a huge disadvantage in every way except for stealth/speed. Adding incentive for squad mates to sabotage the scout while they try to perform in the only way they can would be a horrible idea. Imagine if scouts could sabotage assault characters by siphoning off their ammo or something like that. We wouldn't be calling assault characters greedy for resisting this change. Also, of course people pick the suit for an alternative combat setup. Are you actually implying that is wrong? May as well criticize any logi that that takes advantage of their own equipment or runs as assault. Or heavies that snipe. Scouts are not rewarded for helping their team. Logis get thousands of WP for reviving, restocking, healing, etc. Assault characters get the most kills. Heavies are well equipped to storm objectives. Nothing about playing the "scout role" yields the player any bonus WP or advantage other than the small stealth advantage helping them sneak around. If anything squad vision would be like running a scanner pre-1.6 but without the advantage of being able to kill the enemies you scan yourself like a logi/assault suit can. Sabotage the scout? You send the scout in first and the squad picks their targets. What exactly goes wrong? You use the example of siphoning off Assault ammo. Ever heard of nanohives? I don't criticise logis who run assault, or heavies who snipe. I criticise people who pick a role and complain that it doesn't do things it was never tailored to do. This is what scouts in this thread are doing by objecting to this idea. The lack of WP rewards is a balance issue being addressed as we speak. It is not a valid complaint. Dude your joking right? Please explain how me sharing what I see benifits me? Do I get points for this? Do you get points for this? Yes , +50+50 for spooking my targets an getting me dead. This would make nova knifing impossible! I have 21 million sp in a scout, I invested in all electronic skills and proto scanner, this scanner is your shared vision, my electronics skills are mine, not yours to mooch from! You wanna help scouts then share your vision with us so we don't have to scan in un safe areas, that would benifit us. 1.5 scanners and wp will be insane so you don't need our vision, we need yours so our equipment slots can be used for more valuable things like uplinks and remotes to leave you a spot to spawn so we have reinforcements, so we're not taking on three mercs alone, and yes that is why we need to be light fast assaults because we are expected to get a spot solo! So people saying we're not for killing and were only for recon are a friggen joke! You have any idea what a scouts role in pc is? Keep 6 mercs chasing you so your team can use the uplink you placed to take the objectiv you made a full squad chase you from. An I'm sorry but my stamina does actually run out an I'm not faster than 6 op duv AR'S! So yeah, your theory helps no one, why don't you put sp in something other than your gun, an spend your own millions of sp on ewar instead of trying to use ours an make us your bait, so why don't you quit being greedy an give us your vision!
OZAROW warravens League of Infamy 785	Posted - 2013.10.03 19:18:00 - [3] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: This is great idea IMO. Especially in PC. Mine or his? Would you rather your squad see what you see or you see what your squad sees so you don't need a scanner, leave it to the logi?
OZAROW warravens League of Infamy 785	Posted - 2013.10.03 19:35:00 - [4] - Quote If you want us to do our job make it a two way street, I could maneuver safer without scanning, if my assault squad member is in battle an facing someone his target would light up for me just like a scanner so I could always see what direction my enemy is facing, for this I would share my vision, most scouts work alone so the whole argument is a mute point, BUT for when your in a city it's important we share with each other this is why we have active scanners, now if everyone lit up for me the same as a active scanner without me having to give away my position by using a active scanner than this would work much better than you seeing what I see. That way I can see what my sniper sees without using a scanner, plus I have his cover an he can see what ever spawns in at the objective I'm about to hack solo. This is a more balanced idea an is more efficient than assaults ruining my stealth, of course it would ruin random squads in pub matches so being able to turn it on or off by maybe havin a different range or persicion mod variant would help but it would be better to not waste a slot but still have the option to not share. Right now our sharing option is scanner, an mods for being "selfish". Make it viable to both, because if I know where or how many people your shooting at are, than I can flank with a shot gun or you vise versa
OZAROW warravens League of Infamy 785	Posted - 2013.10.03 20:30:00 - [5] - Quote Dude I don't think your mind works intelligently enough to comment on this what so ever if your not a scout. For one scout 1.1 is not scout 1.4 Speed is frigging dead, armor reps an shield regulators at pretty much mandatory IMO now, so if your a min scout your at 8.36 with biotics, if you use a complex kin an armor rep or pd your only at 9.36 with 90 max armor no regen an no scanner if you carry a compact nano hive, with shields that drop faster than pantiees on prom night! If your gallente unless ur a armor tanked slug like roner, an ur running a pd , kin, rep, cardiac ur still only running 9 This does not do $hit when a AR can drop you from over 50 m! So please stop embarrassing yourself by faking that you know what the hell your talking about! I say nothing about things in the game I'm not or don't use, I think you should follow suit
OZAROW warravens League of Infamy 785	Posted - 2013.10.03 21:56:00 - [6] - Quote So like infrared vision like splinter cell^? This could be dope, I'm suprised ccp hasn't brought it in an cheesed the game up
OZAROW warravens League of Infamy 787	Posted - 2013.10.04 02:48:00 - [7] - Quote Vargralor wrote: It's pretty apparent by now that most of the people in here are not going to change their mind on this idea but there is one thing that you have not considered in this suggestion. Dust 514 is part of a sandbox universe. Roles are promoted and encouraged by design but they are not supposed to be forced upon players. There is still the element of choice to allow different paths to be taken. For example in EVE there is a mining frigate called the Venture. It has bonuses to mining and has a good size cargo hold. There are players that fit it with weapons and PVP in it, often to great success as people who encounter it expect to gank a mining vessel. There are thousands of examples of ships designed for specific roles, with specific bonuses and fittings being used in unexpected ways. CCP refers to it as emergent gameplay and it is one of the major drawcards of the EVE universe. Giving scouts the ability to toggle shared squad vision would be an awesome idea. Being able to pulse a tacnet update to highlight to everyone the location of enemies would be great. Forcing scouts to always have shared squad vision will nerf multiple styles of play and impact how a significant number of players play this game. They may not be playing it how you believe they should be but that is irrelevant in a sandbox universe. If they can make it work then "it's not supposed to be used like that" is not a valid argument. Trust me were greatful for your try but if you never use scouts you might not know this, but we try to AVOID enemies. What your requesting is that we go look for them, report , then die because we have a full squad beating the crap out of us like grown men gang beating a child. See if we can see what you see without giving our selves away without using a scanner or wasting our slots on mods, unless our mods magnified the distance we could be from you to still see what you see. You have scanners , an logis to also scan for you, but if your keeping the other team busy an we can see what you see than we know where everyone is an what path to take to safely do what we have to do. When we run somewhere were going where the action isn't an killing stragglers on the way, your going where the party is. This make sense? The reason scouts flip when people say we are for scouting not killing they fail to realize that we get in more 3 on 1 fights than most in the game cuz your always in a squad, we're at a outside letter trying to secure the 3rd objective but as we're there our team takes the enemies last inner city objectives an uplinks am now were standing in the hornets nest all alone at their base. We need to see what you see so we can count how many are left where you are an you can tell us how many you killed that are coming our way, you don't need our vision cuz common sense tells you there all spawning at base, an most of this can be covered in coms unless we're pub matching solo or w/e. Either way were grateful for the brainstorming, but it would help us more I think if it worked opposite of your idea.
OZAROW warravens League of Infamy 791	Posted - 2013.10.04 23:41:00 - [8] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Toby Flenderson wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: 1. You've assumed I don't want scouts to be rewards for their efforts. Don't do that. 2. The clue is in the title: scout. Just because CCP haven't been very good at making it work, it isn't an argument in favour of commandeering the suit for something else. If that was the case, the early WP-less Chromosome logis should have seen an entire redesign towards alternate assaults too. 3. No they don't. Heavies don't get equipment. Logis don't get forge guns. You're making an argument I've literally just addressed in that same post. We're entitled to do what we want with a suit, we aren't entitled to have the suit's design decisions tailored to something other than its intended role. 1. How does any argument I make assume that? The only assumption in that post is an open one about your tactics in skirmish. The only reference to scouts in that bullet was that they don't identify enemies any better than any other class unless they use an active scanner. I'm starting to think you're just trolling me with your logic. 2. Now i'm positive you're trolling me. I revert back to my "chef" suit argument for this. The name of the suit means nothing if the makers did not give it "scout-like" attributes. By your logic if they renamed the heavy suit "scout" then people using them as they are now would be wrong to do so because it wasn't "intended" to be used that way. 3. Yes they do. Hahaha. If I run a heavy suit, I can use it however I want. Everyone has that right. If you can fit it, you can use it. Heavies not having equipment slots does not limit people to how they can run the suit. It doesn't mean they can't be a support character if that's what the user wants to do. It doesn't mean they can't be a scout if that's what they want it to. The reason people don't is because they have poor scout attributes. The irony here is that you refuse to believe that scout suits have bad scout attributes because they have "scout" in the name while completely ignoring the reality of the suit itself. It's also funny that you're the one in favor of tailoring the suit to your vision of the intended role. I'm not trying to get any changes done to the suit, as you can see I'm oppose to the change. 1. You criticised my position on account of it requiring scouts to be selfless. If I want scouts rewarded for their work, your argument is moot. So either you were making the assumption, or you were making no sense. Which was it? 2. So your argument is that a scout suit shouldn't have scouting abilities because it doesn't currently have very good scouting abilities. 3. You're agreeing with me here. I don't think you've realised it though. With active scanners being available to everyone, plus everyone having the option to boost their own electronic skills, they all void this entire topic. The only reason assaults want this is cuz they know we have skilled these items, an they don't want too, but we're all friends here, we post our ideas to make the game better an we defend our stance because it's human nature to want to be recognized for a good idea. IMO assaults sharing our vision wouldn't be as productive as it would for us to share their vision. 90% of the time scouts orbit the map waiting for a gap to sneek through, sharing a assaults vision would provide us this gap, we would know where others are without scanning an getting noticed. An a good scouts not looking for all the enemies, we're looking for where they arent