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Keri Starlight
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
549
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Posted - 2013.10.01 15:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Introducing a damage falloff mechanic for long distances would prevent people from overkilling vehicles across the whole map without penealizing too much those who actually move around to control different points of the map, instead of camping the highest tower all the time.
If you want to prevent your enemies from calling their vehicles, you have to move a little bit to the frontline and take some risks.
Best way to balance the FG without actually nerfing its effective damage output or accuracy, IMO. |
Keri Starlight
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
552
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
MassiveNine wrote:Keri Starlight wrote:Introducing a damage falloff mechanic for long distances would prevent people from overkilling vehicles across the whole map without penealizing too much those who actually move around to control different points of the map, instead of camping the highest tower all the time.
If you want to prevent your enemies from calling their vehicles, you have to move a little bit to the frontline and take some risks.
Best way to balance the FG without actually nerfing its effective damage output or accuracy, IMO. Why? railguns don't do that why should forges? OH well a railgun is on a tank, pish posh. They can also have 10,000ehp while I'm stuck with 1000 and hoofing it. As to the discussion about using murder taxi's with the LAV, sometimes you don't want to be a target when you're trying to target something yourself. Believe it or not stealth is a key component to forge gunning and sometimes your best positioning is on the ground. Can't tell you how many tanks I've popped from the ground hiding behind a hill and popping up once my AFG is about half charged. Tower sniping with a forge is no worse (less IMO) than redline sniping considering we still have to be within 300m of our target. Just last night I was in a PC sitting on top of a building with my forge, I went 5/5. I probably had about 20 assists but sometimes it's not always about the kills. positioning is key so why are you trying to keep up stuck on the floor? This post is directed to several posts in the thread, not just to you Keri.
Why?
Reason 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sktAvbnHvE4&feature=c4-overview&list=UUJe8E36GLsS5__3B3SYC0fw If you think this is fine, I'd say we have very different ideas about the meaning of these words: "Game", "Balance" and "Fun". Anyway, you cannot do this with a railgun. And tanks have a render distance of 100m max when it comes to enemy infantry.
Reason 2: Run a tank (especially a Shield Tank) for a couple weaks and you will realize why. If you don't have the required skills unlocked, I can spawn a Gunnlogi for you if you cover the outgoing. (SPOILER ALERT: You will really have fun when you can't call your tank because of ONE person on the other side of the map)
Side notes:
-Tanks don't have 10.000 HP, the most tanked Madrugars have 7.250 HP and my Gunnlogi has 6400 HP.
-Tanks receive massive damages because of direct hits (2500 to shields per Ishukone FG shot), while the chance to land a direct hit on your dropsuit is very low. Also, you're not a target for Swarm Launchers and you can't be damaged by AV nades, which are the weapons that do the most damage besides Railguns and Forgeguns. |
Keri Starlight
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
554
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 17:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Keri Starlight wrote:Why? Reason 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sktAvbnHvE4&feature=c4-overview&list=UUJe8E36GLsS5__3B3SYC0fw If you think this is fine, I'd say we have very different ideas about the meaning of these words: "Game", "Balance" and "Fun". Anyway, you cannot do this with a railgun. And tanks have a render distance of 100m max when it comes to enemy infantry. Reason 2: Run a tank (especially a Shield Tank) for a couple weeks and you will realize why. If you don't have the required skills unlocked, I can spawn a Gunnlogi for you if you cover the outgoing. (SPOILER ALERT: You will really have fun when you can't call your tank because of ONE person on the other side of the map) Side notes: -Tanks don't have 10.000 HP, the most tanked Madrugars have 7.250 HP and my Gunnlogi has 6400 HP. -Tanks receive massive damages because of direct hits (2500 to shields per Ishukone FG shot), while the chance to land a direct hit on your dropsuit is very low. Also, you're not a target for Swarm Launchers and you can't be damaged by AV nades, which are the weapons that do the most damage besides Railguns and Forgeguns. Reason 1 is a bald faced lie! I was standing on top of a small hill, and was railtank sniped from 394m. You telling me that was just a lucky shot? GTFO! To make it even worse, the tank wasn't even visible on TacNet for any of my team. We had to pull out a damn scanner to find the guy. Reason 2: Vehicle locks have nothing to do with AV/Vehicle balance. Furthermore, I see plenty of HAVs rotfl stomping every match. You shouldn't expect to be able to go solo and survive very long in a vehicle. I have personally ridden in HAVs with more than 10,000 over all HP The person wielding that FG from the ground has to contend with more than 3 times as many weapons as you do including AR, SMG, ScrR, Sniper Rifles, MD, Locus Grenades, Flaylocks, Scr Pistols, HMGs, etc., all of various tiers with various amounts of damage mods. Pretty compelling argument there considering it takes about 3 seconds to drop a Proto Heavy with a Standard AR. That = Proto Heavy with AFG firing 1 shot before he is dead. You tankers have it so rough! 
Reason 1 is a lie? I'll just tell you something:
Few days ago I was in my tank and suddenly I got hit. I activate my shield booster and I retreat, fortunately there is a small hill right there that protects me from the enemy fire...
I poke my nose up and I get hit again... Swarms? Missles? Wtf is hitting me?
I retreat again to regenerate my HP (1 minute lost so far).
Then again. So I'm really frustrated and I start shooting randomly, until I hit something invisible... wtf?
Conclusion: There was a missile installation 200m away and I realized it when I finally destroyed that b****.
If you call "lies" then we have nothing to discuss, until you try yourself and discover the shocking truth...
Once I killed a dropship passenger from almost 500m away. Luck? Absolutely. I was just aiming at the dropship. Sometimes it seems like the render is slightly better and sometimes it's awful. Did you have bad luck? Most likely.
Reason 2 has nothing to do with vehicle locks. I just urge him to try Shield tanks (and tanks in general) to realize how is to be hit by Forge guns and I might say the same to you.
A tank with 10.000 HP is not a tank, because you can't fit a repper if you put 2 180mm plates on it (cpu and pg), so basically it's a coffin, not a tank. The most tanked and still effective tank you can run has precisely 7250 eHP. Just learn something about tank fittings, ok?
Final and most important: The problem with you (not you as a person, but you as general type of player) is that you pretend to talk about something you don't know absolutely nothing about.
I have an Ishukone FG on an A/1 series with 2 complex damage mods and Proficiency Lv4 and I have a well fitted Gunnlogi. If you only would have tried BOTH this things seriously, there is no way you would be defending the FG unless you are a ******* ***** that doesn't want his gun nerfed, but I know you are not because it's genuinely obvious you don't know anything about tanks.
So yes, tanks have it hard. Shield tanks have it harder. |
Keri Starlight
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
554
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 17:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Anyone who thinks forge guns are even remotely difficult to use right now should probably start signing respec threads because they desperately need one.
LOL and pick what? If they suck with the FG they will be simply humiliated using anything else...
Oh wait, wait, I know: Shield Tanks! No, no, no, DROPSHIPS.
Best way to use your SP! You can't go wrong!  |
Keri Starlight
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
557
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 17:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:You have a TacNet for a reason, I've never had a problem with installations showing up on mine...I have had Blaster HAVs roll right up behind me without registering on TacNet or making a sound... I don't think it's luck, considering He fired one shot, and it took me out. That isn't the first time it's happened that way. Wow I guess tankers must be really lucky shots. So, what you are really saying, is the most effective fitting a solo tanker can make has 7250 HP...you know what I'm about to say now right? Don't expect to survive very long going solo in an HAV! If I try to solo a full squad of Protos in my Proto Heavy with Proto HMG guess what happens to me. That's right I get my ass handed to me. Is it my fault? YES! Just because you are in an HAV doesn't mean you should be able to go solo. An HAV with other Vehicle, and infantry support is the most powerful Team that can be put together in the game. Nerfing AV or Buffing vehicles because some tankers feel they should be able to solo 16 players for 20 minutes without dying is completely ludicrous.
You know that your TacNet can't is not working at 200m, right?
Please re-read, I said the sometimes the render seems to work decently, but it's a rare case... anyway, that distance seems too much to me even for a momentary "hell yeah" rendering special moment... however, I wouldn't be surprised, sometimes I aim at something with the rail gun but I actaully hit something else (for example I shoot a LAV but I miss and I kill someone behind it instead... lol. I know, my aim sucks, but that's pretty fun when it happens).
No, a tank without a repper should not exist in first place, you can't have an army running after you with reppers and LLAV's. "Hey look, I'm an awesome tanker but I refuse to fit a repper because I want you b****** to repair it!" LOL.
A heavy repairer is much more effective than anything else FYI and any tank, "solo" or "not solo" MUST have it. |
Keri Starlight
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
557
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 17:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
DS 10 wrote:Keri Starlight wrote:MassiveNine wrote:Keri Starlight wrote:Introducing a damage falloff mechanic for long distances would prevent people from overkilling vehicles across the whole map without penealizing too much those who actually move around to control different points of the map, instead of camping the highest tower all the time.
If you want to prevent your enemies from calling their vehicles, you have to move a little bit to the frontline and take some risks.
Best way to balance the FG without actually nerfing its effective damage output or accuracy, IMO. Why? railguns don't do that why should forges? OH well a railgun is on a tank, pish posh. They can also have 10,000ehp while I'm stuck with 1000 and hoofing it. As to the discussion about using murder taxi's with the LAV, sometimes you don't want to be a target when you're trying to target something yourself. Believe it or not stealth is a key component to forge gunning and sometimes your best positioning is on the ground. Can't tell you how many tanks I've popped from the ground hiding behind a hill and popping up once my AFG is about half charged. Tower sniping with a forge is no worse (less IMO) than redline sniping considering we still have to be within 300m of our target. Just last night I was in a PC sitting on top of a building with my forge, I went 5/5. I probably had about 20 assists but sometimes it's not always about the kills. positioning is key so why are you trying to keep up stuck on the floor? This post is directed to several posts in the thread, not just to you Keri. Why? Reason 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sktAvbnHvE4&feature=c4-overview&list=UUJe8E36GLsS5__3B3SYC0fw If you think this is fine, I'd say we have very different ideas about the meaning of these words: "Game", "Balance" and "Fun". Anyway, you cannot do this with a railgun. And tanks have a render distance of 100m max when it comes to enemy infantry. Reason 2: Run a tank (especially a Shield Tank) for a couple weeks and you will realize why. If you don't have the required skills unlocked, I can spawn a Gunnlogi for you if you cover the outgoing. (SPOILER ALERT: You will really have fun when you can't call your tank because of ONE person on the other side of the map) Side notes: -Tanks don't have 10.000 eHP, the most tanked Madrugars have 7.250 eHP and my Gunnlogi has 6400 eHP. -Tanks receive massive damages because of direct hits (2500 to shields per Ishukone FG shot), while the chance to land a direct hit on your dropsuit is very low. Also, you're not a target for Swarm Launchers and you can't be damaged by AV nades, which are the weapons that do the most damage besides Railguns and Forgeguns. Aw. I have a hater :D
LOL, not really, I just think that kind of gameplay is horrible. Many of your videos are extremely informative and useful, keep it up! 
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Keri Starlight
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
559
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 18:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
MassiveNine wrote:
lol, so you talk about being a good tanker yet you have problems with an A/I missile turret? I have been playing this game since codex and have gone through two resets and a respec. My first reset I had close to 40 million SP, those were the good ole days. I have tried pretty much everything in the game to a certain degree. Just over the weekend I watched an armor tank take 7 forge shots from two gunners and still made it away alive. you have just a few things to worry about, missiles, railguns, swarms and forges. I have dropships, tanks, and every weapon used by infantry, including forge guns to worry about. When you stumble across a reddot you have nothing to fear, where as I have to try and fight a single guy with nothing but my sidearm. with two reppers 7250hp becomes double or maybe even triple that once they cycle over. Forge guns have already been nerfed twice and you're still crying for another one because your crappy tank cant hang?
Just 3 things:
1. Never said I'm such a good tanker.
2. The AI turret is not a big threat (lol), but when you can't see it at all you keep wondering wtf is hitting you.
3. Tanks have been nerfed too, if I'm not mistaking...? And maybe my crappy tank with azeo extender, clarity ward booster and amps should have some survivability? No? Ok, if you say so, I guess I'll be running in a corner to cry...  |
Keri Starlight
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
562
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 18:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Yea, I know the TacNet doesn't work from 200m, I also know that with a bit of situational awareness, you would have known exactly what was firing at you. Seriously, how could you not tell you were getting hit with Missles? Isn't the three consecutive explosions a very telltale sign? Maybe you should take your face out of turret view every now and then so you know what's going on around you...hey there's a thought! Reminds me of the idiot snipers I walk straight up on because they never take there eye off the scope lol. Just to clear up any confusion, the tank had just destroyed a CRU, which I was standing next to. After the CRU turned into Dust and had completely vanished, I get one shotted by a Railgun Turret from 394m. There was nothing around me for at least 15m in all directions, even then, there were no other installations or vehicles, just infantry. So, you want me to believe, the tanker just happened to make a lucky guess that someone was standing there, and then take one shot at me, and wouldn't you know it, got me first try! Next you will say he eats 4 leaf clovers for breakfast and ***** rainbows with pots of gold at the end. If you ask me, having a fully armor platedhardened tank with support vehicles would be the only way to tank. Just like A fully tanked Heavy staying with a dedicated Logibro is the most viable option.
I still don't get what's the point of your discussion where the only thing I wanted to say is that I COULD NOT SEE THE INSTALLATION BECAUSE OF THE RENDER. If you want to tell me I'm stupid, fine, I've no problems with this, you can laugh at me or even offend me if you wish but I'm an adult and I won't run away crying. The only thing that matters here is that you can't see **** in a tank most of the time.
I understand what you're saying and I'm not calling "lie". However, I repeat that most of the time you can't see anything in a tank. Is that clear? No? Buy a MLT tank and rail and have fun, end of story, there is really nothing to add.
I can imagine this is your idea about tanks, seeing how much you like them
I'll go get a nice shower now, but I'll be back to answer eventually, even if this dicussion seems to be kinda pointless. |
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