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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3193
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Posted - 2014.01.18 04:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote:I think the light weapons aren't classified as AV but "Launchers" in which case you have SL, PC, MD, and [Amarr pending].
Still, I'm curious to see what Amarr is gonna get.
I know the SL and PC don't have the normal "light arms" penalty to damage against vehicles. Is that also the case with the MD?
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3300
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Posted - 2014.01.25 08:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
Tanks are OP? Sure would be nice if we had more AV options...
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Dehlia Metii
not in a corporation
69
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Posted - 2014.01.27 06:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Tanks are OP? Sure would be nice if we had more AV options...
That probably wouldn't fix the tank issue by itself. |
Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
392
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Posted - 2014.01.27 06:40:00 -
[34] - Quote
3 words:
Portable Tachyon Cannon.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3306
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Posted - 2014.01.27 07:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:3 words:
Portable Tachyon Cannon.
Ha! I love it!
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Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
516
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Posted - 2014.01.27 08:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
Consider this.
Supose we give minmatar the -20%/+20% that swarms have, and make caldari -10%/+10% profile for swarm launchers? Traditionally, Caldari are about kinetic damage, so the swarm launcher could be more about penetrating shields and armor rather than blowing it apart.
Now for Minmatar, have their AV be a bazooka type weapon with the -20%/+20% profile, with one shot, then a reload, but no charge up time like the plasma cannon.
Amarr AV you described perfectly. No change I would make. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3306
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Posted - 2014.01.27 09:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Consider this.
Supose we give minmatar the -20%/+20% that swarms have, and make caldari -10%/+10% profile for swarm launchers? Traditionally, Caldari are about kinetic damage, so the swarm launcher could be more about penetrating shields and armor rather than blowing it apart.
Now for Minmatar, have their AV be a bazooka type weapon with the -20%/+20% profile, with one shot, then a reload, but no charge up time like the plasma cannon.
Amarr AV you described perfectly. No change I would make.
The Swarm Launcher supposedly has a "Hybrid" tag already as a weapon in the SDE, though they haven't indicated that they wanted to alter the damage profile.
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3411
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Posted - 2014.02.10 14:05:00 -
[38] - Quote
Logibro posted that Swarm, Plasma Cannon, and MD are all listed as "Launcher", but that it doesn't preclude an actual Minmatar AV weapon... but doesn't mean they're make one either. The fact the Amarr don't have an AV weapon OR a launcher implies that they will make something like that?
So, a possible late edit to this could suggest... "Where's the Amarr Launcher" though that seems overly simplistic, and clashes with what our original vision of Amarr AV would be.
I suppose some sort of Khanid Heavy Assault Missile or Rocket Launcher is technically within the scope of Amarr?
Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3464
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Posted - 2014.02.19 14:39:00 -
[39] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Logibro posted that Swarm, Plasma Cannon, and MD are all listed as "Launcher", but that it doesn't preclude an actual Minmatar AV weapon... but doesn't mean they're make one either. The fact the Amarr don't have an AV weapon OR a launcher implies that they will make something like that?
So, a possible late edit to this could suggest... "Where's the Amarr Launcher" though that seems overly simplistic, and clashes with what our original vision of Amarr AV would be.
I suppose some sort of Khanid Heavy Assault Missile or Rocket Launcher is technically within the scope of Amarr?
I'd prefer to have AV fleshed out, but I'd settle for knowing when/what this theoretical Amarr launcher is going to be, if every race needs a "launcher".
Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
210
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Posted - 2014.02.19 16:36:00 -
[40] - Quote
We already have five AV weapons. Three are Caldari - Swarmer, AV grenade and FG One is Gallente - PLC One is Minmatar - REs
Each has different strengths and weaknesses. AV grenades have low range and fill the grenade slot. FGs require a heavy frame and have a large charge time. PLCs are hard to aim. Swarmers aim themselves and have huge knockback, but not much firepower. REs kill absolutely anything, but their effective use requires either about six seconds of melee range or suicide. Sure, AV in general is underpowered, but we already have a nice selection. I'd prefer if the fourth launcher was not an AV weapon, considering that two already are. |
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3467
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Posted - 2014.02.19 18:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
Sole Fenychs wrote:We already have five AV weapons. Three are Caldari - Swarmer, AV grenade and FG One is Gallente - PLC One is Minmatar - REs
Each has different strengths and weaknesses. AV grenades have low range and fill the grenade slot. FGs require a heavy frame and have a large charge time. PLCs are hard to aim. Swarmers aim themselves and have huge knockback, but not much firepower. REs kill absolutely anything, but their effective use requires either about six seconds of melee range or suicide. Sure, AV in general is underpowered, but we already have a nice selection. I'd prefer if the fourth launcher was not an AV weapon, considering that two already are.
So, in your world, the Amarr just never bothered making an AV weapon? These were supposed to be entirely separate civilizations at one point. It defies reason that a culture wouldn't bother with ANY AV weapons. The Amarr find an opponent with vehicles? Darn... send the infantry home.
Racial parity is an end unto itself not just for balance reasons, but for logical ones.
Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
214
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Posted - 2014.02.19 19:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:So, in your world, the Amarr just never bothered making an AV weapon? These were supposed to be entirely separate civilizations at one point. It defies reason that a culture wouldn't bother with ANY AV weapons. The Amarr find an opponent with vehicles? Darn... send the infantry home.
Racial parity is an end unto itself not just for balance reasons, but for logical ones. I never said that Amarr shouldn't have an AV weapon. Only that the quantity of AV equipment is already plentiful.
I totally expect an AV weapon for Amarr. Or a weapon that has AV as secondary effect, similar to how the PLC has anti-infantry as its side-role.
Edit: Vehicles have weak points. (Your modifier changes when you aim at them) What if Amarr had a weapon that was mainly anti-infantry, but gained a huge modifier for attacking those weak points? It's totally in line of the "hard to handle but hideously strong" design philosophy of weapons like the Scrambler Rifle. So what if the Laser Rifle gained that role? |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3591
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Posted - 2014.02.26 14:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
Sole Fenychs wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:So, in your world, the Amarr just never bothered making an AV weapon? These were supposed to be entirely separate civilizations at one point. It defies reason that a culture wouldn't bother with ANY AV weapons. The Amarr find an opponent with vehicles? Darn... send the infantry home.
Racial parity is an end unto itself not just for balance reasons, but for logical ones. I never said that Amarr shouldn't have an AV weapon. Only that the quantity of AV equipment is already plentiful. I totally expect an AV weapon for Amarr. Or a weapon that has AV as secondary effect, similar to how the PLC has anti-infantry as its side-role. Edit: Vehicles have weak points. (Your modifier changes when you aim at them) What if Amarr had a weapon that was mainly anti-infantry, but gained a huge modifier for attacking those weak points? It's totally in line of the "hard to handle but hideously strong" design philosophy of weapons like the Scrambler Rifle. So what if the Laser Rifle gained that role?
I don't count grenades, equipment, or heavy weapons as within the scope of AV for light infantry. The latter for obvious reasons, the other two because I see them more as adjuncts to active AV engagement. Grenades require nigh-melee range on a vehicle, which makes them super situational. Explosives are typically static, forcing a somewhat opposite strategy from grenades (static traps outside the somewhat questionable jihad-jeep business) - though Proxies, not REs are supposed to be the predominant explosive AV option anyway.
They're mutually distinct areas, and it seems reasonable to me because of the initial separation of races, that each race would have a racial AV option that existed for their light infantry without necessitating a heavy weapons platform. I think of these as "active" AV options that don't necessarily involve melee distance, but might require some pursuit on the part of the user. The forge is OP for a LW in this framework, the Plasma Cannon is overly weak - being less practical than grenades most of the time. The Swarm Launcher's range nerf has killed most of their utility in this respect.
For the PC and Swarms, that's mostly a balancing issue because the weapons already exist. This thread exists to suggest alternate active light AV options for the other races that are currently bereft, while not ruling out whatever options that might arise in the Heavy Weapons arena later on.
To the laser suggestion directly, I think the practicality of requiring hitting a weakpoint is too sketchy to make it consistent AV. I'm not sure if it would be worse than a PC necessarily, but it seems like it at first blush to me.
Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
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Dehlia Metii
not in a corporation
76
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Posted - 2014.03.08 02:10:00 -
[44] - Quote
I still need my Minnie AV. |
Xaviah Reaper
Nyain San Renegade Alliance
260
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Posted - 2014.03.08 02:29:00 -
[45] - Quote
ccp cant even balance out 1 vehicle with 2 available weapons... can you imagine the chaos???
Best game with a Python:
33kills 1 death (1.6)
24kills 1 death (1.7)
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3772
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Posted - 2014.03.08 12:18:00 -
[46] - Quote
Xaviah Reaper wrote:ccp cant even balance out 1 vehicle with 2 available weapons... can you imagine the chaos???
The problem won't go away for lack of things to balance.
Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
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