DUST Search - Lag switching in Dust: A reality or just an excuse?

RKKR wrote:

The Loathing wrote:

KalOfTheRathi wrote:

On the lag switch issue it is very much in play in DUST. I experienced it just yesterday. Targeted a Red, fired and the Red moved three or four meters to the right. I got the Red anyway but that is a lag switch at work.

Yep ok, so it didn't affect you in any way other than your ability to hit the target?

Yeah Stile's comment could be an answer there. Too much equipment laid out could spike it? Although in our next battle there was probably even MORE equipment down yet the lag was just as usual.

Quote:

[BUG] Planetary conquest performance since Uprising 1.4 - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1309798#post1309798
Status: We're aware of complaints, but exact cause is hard to nail down. Still looking into this. Recent playtests with equipment spam didn't show dramatic performance hits. More information from players on circumstances and conditions would be useful.

So it would only be really bad and noticable when there is a unlimited equipment bug Roll

, which means that those bug reports can't be trusted.

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The Loathing The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 231	Posted - 2013.09.27 15:07:00 - [1] - Quote I know the community will have more to say on this than the Devs, but is lag switching possible in Dust 514? Pardon my ignorance on the subject, but I was always under the impression that lag switching was a tool in P2P games, not dedicated servers. However, recently a Corp we have come up against who shall remain nameless have appeared to be losing a battle at the start and then at a halfway point our whole team just hits a wall of lag, game breaking lag. I'm not looking to make ANY excuses for a loss or decline in performance, but this has happened multiple times and everyone on our team feels the lag spike at the same time and it continues on until there is no going back on the MCC points. I'm wondering if lag switching is a reason for this, or is there another reason why we would have the same experience multiple times where a game has a completely tolerable connection, then abruptly it turns into a slide show or worse. I was teleporting in the wrong direction in some instances. Please CCP, if you could comment on this matter it would be much appreciated. But community feedback on this issue is needed if there is any action to be taken.
demens grimwulff A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 10	Posted - 2013.09.28 01:46:00 - [2] - Quote Lag switch does not work in that manner... It works between the character and their connection to the server making them lag at opportune moments.
The Loathing The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 231	Posted - 2013.09.28 08:30:00 - [3] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: Lag switch does not work in that manner... It works between the character and their connection to the server making them lag at opportune moments. So in essence, they would be jumping around, yet it would not affect our connection? That makes sense also. So is there an explanation for an abrupt shift in connection/lag for a team midway through a battle? Multiple battles against the same opponent I should add.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 384	Posted - 2013.09.28 11:30:00 - [4] - Quote I was in that game, and it really was an abrupt change from manageable lag to whelp, 2 frames per second. However, unless lag switches can affect the rendering of my PS3, it's gotta be a bug in the game. Heck, *even if* lag switches can affect rendering, that's still a bug in the game; just a different bug :)
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 244	Posted - 2013.09.28 16:53:00 - [5] - Quote I believe that this is an engine issue. It takes some time for it to happen and only seems to happen on the orbital artillery map(aka the ring map). This might be related to the amount of equipment deployed but I haven't had this problem on other maps(or I may have just been lucky).
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 763	Posted - 2013.09.28 22:19:00 - [6] - Quote When a Team or a Squad (more commonly) is lagged together the problem appears to be with one Merc. The solution is to Leave Squad. If it clears then it is Not You. Good. Bad, it is someone else and in the middle of PC trying to get an entire Squad to cycle through fixing the lag is a problem. And it might be a Red that one of the Squad is close to as well. Although that doesn't appear to be quite as common. Just imagine if it is indeed possible to have that occur on a Team wide basis. Fixing it while in PC would be nearly impossible. On the lag switch issue it is very much in play in DUST. I experienced it just yesterday. Targeted a Red, fired and the Red moved three or four meters to the right. I got the Red anyway but that is a lag switch at work.
The Loathing The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 231	Posted - 2013.09.28 23:54:00 - [7] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: On the lag switch issue it is very much in play in DUST. I experienced it just yesterday. Targeted a Red, fired and the Red moved three or four meters to the right. I got the Red anyway but that is a lag switch at work. Yep ok, so it didn't affect you in any way other than your ability to hit the target? Yeah Stile's comment could be an answer there. Too much equipment laid out could spike it? Although in our next battle there was probably even MORE equipment down yet the lag was just as usual.
demens grimwulff A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 11	Posted - 2013.09.29 00:02:00 - [8] - Quote Sorry for the delay in response but you are correct, a lag switch only affects the use causing them to skip around when activated.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1752	Posted - 2013.09.29 09:58:00 - [9] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: I was in that game, and it really was an abrupt change from manageable lag to whelp, 2 frames per second. However, unless lag switches can affect the rendering of my PS3, it's gotta be a bug in the game. Heck, *even if* lag switches can affect rendering, that's still a bug in the game; just a different bug :) not going to go in detail how to lag servers but yes lag switches could do both for their advantage.
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 418	Posted - 2013.09.29 11:41:00 - [10] - Quote The Loathing wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: On the lag switch issue it is very much in play in DUST. I experienced it just yesterday. Targeted a Red, fired and the Red moved three or four meters to the right. I got the Red anyway but that is a lag switch at work. Yep ok, so it didn't affect you in any way other than your ability to hit the target? Yeah Stile's comment could be an answer there. Too much equipment laid out could spike it? Although in our next battle there was probably even MORE equipment down yet the lag was just as usual. Quote: [BUG] Planetary conquest performance since Uprising 1.4 - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1309798#post1309798 Status: We're aware of complaints, but exact cause is hard to nail down. Still looking into this. Recent playtests with equipment spam didn't show dramatic performance hits. More information from players on circumstances and conditions would be useful. So it would only be really bad and noticable when there is a unlimited equipment bug , which means that those bug reports can't be trusted.

IceShifter Childhaspawn DUST University Ivy League 292	Posted - 2013.09.29 13:40:00 - [11] - Quote Ive only ever seen one player using a switch or some variant thereof. The dude would appear one second - disappear- and reappear several meters away constantly during the entire battle. Ran into same Merc last week, decided to take him on. I'd fire and he would blink out. Never landed a round even with hip fire. Did observe when he would reappear he would be ADSing where I was a half second back. He couldn't shoot me and I couldn't hit him -ended in stalemate Besides the really cool experience of Minmatar suits suddenly appearing in front of you unloading their magazines into the empty air to your side. These lag exploits dont seem to be helpful.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4334	Posted - 2013.09.29 15:01:00 - [12] - Quote This is troubling. I assumed it was impossible to lag switch in a server that only CCP controls and regulates. But if someone is successfully switching in this game then we have a problem.
kickin six Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2013.09.29 23:07:00 - [13] - Quote The latency is literally killing me. I'll be running then I'll be 50' back then (and I know it's coming) I'll be 50' forward from my original position. Which would be great if it usually wasn't dead center of a pack of enemies or off the side of a cliff. In a game 10 minutes ago I was just standing lobbing driver rounds when I jumped across the area I was in. Yeah, about 50 game feet to the right. Might not have cared if there wasn't a sniper waiting for me to be a target. Now I make sure to run towards a stationary object like a rock or railing just to be sure I don't go flying off into the open and become a free target. This needs to be fixed or I'm taking a break. It's costing me a fortune in suits. Cheers
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1763	Posted - 2013.09.30 00:29:00 - [14] - Quote RKKR wrote: The Loathing wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: On the lag switch issue it is very much in play in DUST. I experienced it just yesterday. Targeted a Red, fired and the Red moved three or four meters to the right. I got the Red anyway but that is a lag switch at work. Yep ok, so it didn't affect you in any way other than your ability to hit the target? Yeah Stile's comment could be an answer there. Too much equipment laid out could spike it? Although in our next battle there was probably even MORE equipment down yet the lag was just as usual. Quote: [BUG] Planetary conquest performance since Uprising 1.4 - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1309798#post1309798 Status: We're aware of complaints, but exact cause is hard to nail down. Still looking into this. Recent playtests with equipment spam didn't show dramatic performance hits. More information from players on circumstances and conditions would be useful. So it would only be really bad and noticable when there is a unlimited equipment bug , which means that those bug reports can't be trusted. honestly i don't trust them when they say they tested something. that is just sad.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 384	Posted - 2013.09.30 02:59:00 - [15] - Quote Stile451 wrote: I believe that this is an engine issue. It takes some time for it to happen and only seems to happen on the orbital artillery map(aka the ring map). Hmm, it was the ring map.
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 137	Posted - 2013.09.30 08:19:00 - [16] - Quote I wonder if perhaps the other team got their **** together and started running as a mob. If this happened they you'd get a higher concentration of players in certain areas and this might start to strain connections since the server has to tell every player about every other enemy player and vice versa. It is possible that the server does optimizations along the lines of the rendering issues with what information the clients receive. Eg. If merc A is very far away from enemy merc B then the server won't bother telling A's client about merc B even if they have line of sight. However is they are right next to each other then obviously the server will tell them both about the other. Now extrapolate that to two entire teams. If all those mercs are in the same place then you'd expect a drop in performance compared to when the two teams are scattered around the map. Just supposition but it could be what is happening.
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 82	Posted - 2013.09.30 10:30:00 - [17] - Quote Stile451 wrote: I believe that this is an engine issue. It takes some time for it to happen and only seems to happen on the orbital artillery map(aka the ring map). This might be related to the amount of equipment deployed but I haven't had this problem on other maps(or I may have just been lucky). I think this game has a lot of RAM issues. Performance deteriorates the longer you play, which is a telltale sign of being RAM limited. Makes sense as the PS3 has less RAM in it than a modern mobile phone. Sounds like the OP's problem is an extreme version of this, probably related to lots of voice coms and deployed equipment, as you say. Not sure why it happens most on that map, I guess with the tall, elaborate structures the geometry is more demanding than most and it may be badly optimised.
The Loathing The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 234	Posted - 2013.10.04 08:58:00 - [18] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Stile451 wrote: I believe that this is an engine issue. It takes some time for it to happen and only seems to happen on the orbital artillery map(aka the ring map). This might be related to the amount of equipment deployed but I haven't had this problem on other maps(or I may have just been lucky). I think this game has a lot of RAM issues. Performance deteriorates the longer you play, which is a telltale sign of being RAM limited. Makes sense as the PS3 has less RAM in it than a modern mobile phone. Sounds like the OP's problem is an extreme version of this, probably related to lots of voice coms and deployed equipment, as you say. Not sure why it happens most on that map, I guess with the tall, elaborate structures the geometry is more demanding than most and it may be badly optimised. We lovingly call that map 'The MeatGrinder' since it is just a crowded bloody pile of mercs and lag most matches. lag is ALWAYS expected in this map. However, against this particular team it was just a MAJOR shift in framerate and latency. We were on top in the game, but the shift was so severe it hindered our ability to defend. Just another theory, but could server favouring switch mid-match?
CommanderBolt A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 352	Posted - 2013.10.04 12:33:00 - [19] - Quote The Loathing wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Lag switch does not work in that manner... It works between the character and their connection to the server making them lag at opportune moments. So in essence, they would be jumping around, yet it would not affect our connection? That makes sense also. So is there an explanation for an abrupt shift in connection/lag for a team midway through a battle? Multiple battles against the same opponent I should add. The run up to and during patch 1.3, CCP were doing a good job at improving performance. Granted there is ALWAYS more work to do but they were making visible progress. 1.4 came and now lag and low fps is back. I do not know why however one of the Devs did say they were aware and looking into it.
CommanderBolt A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 352	Posted - 2013.10.04 12:43:00 - [20] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Stile451 wrote: I believe that this is an engine issue. It takes some time for it to happen and only seems to happen on the orbital artillery map(aka the ring map). This might be related to the amount of equipment deployed but I haven't had this problem on other maps(or I may have just been lucky). I think this game has a lot of RAM issues. Performance deteriorates the longer you play, which is a telltale sign of being RAM limited. Makes sense as the PS3 has less RAM in it than a modern mobile phone. Sounds like the OP's problem is an extreme version of this, probably related to lots of voice coms and deployed equipment, as you say. Not sure why it happens most on that map, I guess with the tall, elaborate structures the geometry is more demanding than most and it may be badly optimised. I think you have a point. I get less severe but similar issue for BF3 on pc @ Ultra settings. I only have 4gb ram and I'm told 8gb is needed for the ultra textures. I get similar mini stutter and fps drops and I base that down to memory issues. However the difference is my PC at least has 4gigs of ram, not just the 512mb combined that the ps3 has. (PS3 has only 256MB of XDR ram and another 256MB possibly slower GDDR3 for the GPU) However its a little difficult to compare PC and PS3 parts as the architecture is very different. Suffice to say the PS3 is lacking in this day and age.

The Loathing The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 235	Posted - 2013.10.05 09:21:00 - [21] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: The Loathing wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Lag switch does not work in that manner... It works between the character and their connection to the server making them lag at opportune moments. So in essence, they would be jumping around, yet it would not affect our connection? That makes sense also. So is there an explanation for an abrupt shift in connection/lag for a team midway through a battle? Multiple battles against the same opponent I should add. The run up to and during patch 1.3, CCP were doing a good job at improving performance. Granted there is ALWAYS more work to do but they were making visible progress. 1.4 came and now lag and low fps is back. I do not know why however one of the Devs did say they were aware and looking into it. Well they should bloody get on to it if they do. PC sux if they don't get their network issues solved. Today another example of my post happened, but this time against STB. Now, we usually have at least a half decent connection with the US, and our previous battles with US Corps haven't given us much of a headache. But one of our recent battles resulted in a complete loss of framerate all together for some members, others had no hit detection. CCP have to get a clue on this. Network and latency issues should be fixed PRIOR to new features, then build on it as you release those features.
Kaios Family SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 41	Posted - 2013.10.05 11:52:00 - [22] - Quote only EVER lag when fighting against on perticular corp in PC so you e the judge pfff ... this is a joke that CCP refusses to adress so face the fact that ccp is gona let them cheet and knows there cheeting hell probly gave them the cheets. trollolol all yah want dont give a Sh#$
Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 1605	Posted - 2013.10.05 13:28:00 - [23] - Quote Lag switching is a very old trick, it can be done with either download or upload. This days you only need a Tablet connected to your network, and something to download or upload. Which is why Dust 514 should have ping restrictions, if you ping goes up by X number you get kick out of the server. At the moment is not restrictions and makes lag switching very easy to do.
The Loathing The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 236	Posted - 2013.10.05 14:03:00 - [24] - Quote Kaios Family wrote: only EVER lag when fighting against on perticular corp in PC so you e the judge pfff ... this is a joke that CCP refusses to adress so face the fact that ccp is gona let them cheet and knows there cheeting hell probly gave them the cheets. trollolol all yah want dont give a Sh#$ probably one of the most ordinary trolls I've seen in a while..... Pretty sure you didn't get the context of my statement, numbnuts. I was more making the point that now that we have seen it with multiple opponents it is less likely it is player controlled, and more likely that it is incompetence on CCP's part to provide an even playing field for players alike. But hey, way to go on keeping your outstanding reputation in tact, 1337 H4x20R........
Dalmont Legrand Nemesis Ad Astra RUST415 48	Posted - 2013.10.05 14:39:00 - [25] - Quote Just to say, one my friend, won't mention him, does this for years. People like him are always on top of ratio and kill board. I can't understand what is the fun in winning by cheats? How about a call? Naaah...


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