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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1589
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 01:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
We've been expecting these for months now. Maybe I can rekindle our interest with this thread.
Chunky Munkey's cloaking device:
It's an equipment item. Avg CPU requirements, high PG requirements.
Once activated, the cloak makes you somewhat-entirely invisible, and lowers your scan profile by a reasonable amount, for a fixed period of time.
The cloak is deactivated by performing any action other than movement & hacking. Or by equipping & deactivating it manually.
Deactivation starts a cooldown similar to the scanner, & varies according to the different cloaks.
You may still be scanned while cloaked, but will not be physically visible.
In much of sci-fi, cloaks commandeer shield generators. For balance, as well as lore purposes, I think this transfers well to Dust. As such: Activating the cloak deactivates your shields. This balances the survivability bonus of being invisible, and means that anyone smart enough to detect a cloaked clone, has a reasonable chance of killing them.
When the cloak is deactivated, the standard "shield depleted" delay begins for shield recharge.
Obviously such an item is tailored to scout gameplay. How to make a cloaking device scout-friendly:
The amount of time the cloak stays in effect is decided by a number that varies according to the cloak you're using, which is then divided by your total scan profile. Thereby favouring low scan profiles. This way we don't have to limit the cloak to the scout suit, but scouts will never the less see much greater efficiency from them.
The shield penalty for the cloak will hopefully balance what I think is likely to be the significant superiority of the Caldari scout in the future. Making all scouts, not just shield-tanked ones appealing.
A scout specialisation bonus to cloak use would also be welcome.
What do you think mercs? Share your thoughts. |
Gh0st C0de
Spirit Collective
49
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 01:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Rather than being on all the time, perhaps it could be activated when running and stay on for maybe 15 seconds after you stop running. Thus it would be limited by your stamina while still allowing for you to run and stop long enough to cap a lone hacker, but not stop long enough to hack unseen.
As a scout I can say this, having a cloaking device deactivate my shield would leave me with a whopping 135 eHp on a fitting without plates equipped... of all of my fittings only one had plating, the rest have dampeners and cardiac regulators/ kin-cats. Unless it made me 100% invisible, this would likely make my day worse rather than better. Scouts don't need a "balance" for a cloak, the goal isn't to keep us at our current power level, it is to buff us from our current misery. As such, a trade off for the cloak would be entirely counterproductive.
For the rest of it, it sounds alright to work with. I'd like it to be feasibly able to be equipped on a scout suit, so the CPU/PG would need to be modest or it would need to have a significant optimization bonuses for scout suits.
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Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
125
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 01:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Not bad.
I have a couple of things I would do differently: -hacking should deactivate the cloak -don't disable shields (it messes with tanking choices and balance too much)
What about a cloak and decloak sound? Should they be as load as the current ones? |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1590
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 02:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Garth Mandra wrote:Not bad.
I have a couple of things I would do differently: -hacking should deactivate the cloak -don't disable shields (it messes with tanking choices and balance too much)
What about a cloak and decloak sound? Should they be as load as the current ones?
I think the shields should deactivate because otherwise the shield-based scouts will have complete dominance over others when it comes to any combat options. |
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
401
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 02:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Scout suit. That is ALL! |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1590
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 02:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Scout suit. That is ALL!
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
998
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 02:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Only nova knives and melees work after decloak for 5 seconds. Any action other than items switching and moving uncloak. Force Recon mod (level 5) can run full speed and others can on move at 50% speed. Totally invisible and can't be scanned. AFK dream! 15 second cool down. Resource heavy equipment module that any suit can use but only Force Recon suits (level 5 light special ops) can use them with no resource draw. Each level of Light Special Operations reduces the PC/CPU use by 20%. Level 3 Light Special Operations required to use Force Recon suit
RECON MISSION: The mission of Force RECON is to conduct deep ground reconnaissance, surveillance, battle space shaping, and limited scale raids in support of the Expeditionary Force , other air-ground task forces, or a joint force. |
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
999
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 02:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Only nova knives and melees work after decloak for 5 seconds. Any action other than items switching and moving uncloak. Force Recon mod (level 5) can run full speed and others can on move at 50% speed. Totally invisible and can't be scanned. AFK dream! 15 second cool down. Resource heavy equipment module that any suit can use but only Force Recon suits (level 5 light special ops) can use them with no resource draw. Each level of Light Special Operations reduces the PC/CPU use by 20%. Level 3 Light Special Operations required to use Force Recon suit
RECON MISSION: The mission of Force RECON is to conduct deep ground reconnaissance, surveillance, battle space shaping, and limited scale raids in support of the Expeditionary Force , other air-ground task forces, or a joint force.
P.S. Any suit can use them in the equipment slot with Cloaking level 1. Each level of Cloaking reduces cool down by 7.5% |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
931
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 02:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nope. Octopus cloak only for scout suits. That'd be balanced, and fair. No other suits needs cloaking, and invisible cloaks are always OP or UP. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1591
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 03:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Nope. Octopus cloak only for scout suits. That'd be balanced, and fair. No other suits needs cloaking, and invisible cloaks are always OP or UP.
Why only for scout suits? I agree that since 1.4 light frames in general have needed even more love than before. But denying content to others just for the sake of balance seems counter productive. |
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Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
935
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 03:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Nope. Octopus cloak only for scout suits. That'd be balanced, and fair. No other suits needs cloaking, and invisible cloaks are always OP or UP. Why only for scout suits? I agree that since 1.4 light frames in general have needed even more love than before. But denying content to others just for the sake of balance seems counter productive.
What would be the purpose of a heavy using a cloak other than trolling? same for for the mediums. The light suit is the only one whom wouldn't abuse it, as if they are spotted through the octopus cloak, they'll die pretty quick. A medium or heavy on the other hand will be fine unless it's a couple of people. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1594
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 04:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Nope. Octopus cloak only for scout suits. That'd be balanced, and fair. No other suits needs cloaking, and invisible cloaks are always OP or UP. Why only for scout suits? I agree that since 1.4 light frames in general have needed even more love than before. But denying content to others just for the sake of balance seems counter productive. What would be the purpose of a heavy using a cloak other than trolling? same for for the mediums. The light suit is the only one whom wouldn't abuse it, as if they are spotted through the octopus cloak, they'll die pretty quick. A medium or heavy on the other hand will be fine unless it's a couple of people.
Hence the scan profile equation. Commandos would get the least use out of the item. They would also be less able to use it to ambush, given their reduced speed, and would suffer the biggest loss of survivability from the shield penalty. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1731
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 04:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Nope. Octopus cloak only for scout suits. That'd be balanced, and fair. No other suits needs cloaking, and invisible cloaks are always OP or UP. Why only for scout suits? I agree that since 1.4 light frames in general have needed even more love than before. But denying content to others just for the sake of balance seems counter productive. let light frames have heavy weapons then. |
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
999
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 04:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Nope. Octopus cloak only for scout suits. That'd be balanced, and fair. No other suits needs cloaking, and invisible cloaks are always OP or UP. Why only for scout suits? I agree that since 1.4 light frames in general have needed even more love than before. But denying content to others just for the sake of balance seems counter productive. let light frames have heavy weapons then.
But they have to stand still. |
Awesome Pantaloons
Tech Guard
50
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 04:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
I have an idea for the cloaking device that is a little less conventional. My idea is similar: takes an equipment slot, decent CPU, high PG, but rather than a device that rends you less visible, one that makes you appear friendly to the enemy for a set amount of time. Nothing breaks the stealth mode; it just lasts a certain amount of time. I'm thinking 30 seconds at complex. But obviously if you start killing people or hacking, people will become suspicious. It would demand a greater degree of awareness and definitely make for some interesting scout gameplay. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5508
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 04:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Awesome Pantaloons wrote:I have an idea for the cloaking device that is a little less conventional. My idea is similar: takes an equipment slot, decent CPU, high PG, but rather than a device that rends you less visible, one that makes you appear friendly to the enemy for a set amount of time. Nothing breaks the stealth mode; it just lasts a certain amount of time. I'm thinking 30 seconds at complex. But obviously if you start killing people or hacking, people will become suspicious. It would demand a greater degree of awareness and definitely make for some interesting scout gameplay.
"Dat freakin' scout's a spy!" |
Awesome Pantaloons
Tech Guard
51
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 13:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Awesome Pantaloons wrote:I have an idea for the cloaking device that is a little less conventional. My idea is similar: takes an equipment slot, decent CPU, high PG, but rather than a device that rends you less visible, one that makes you appear friendly to the enemy for a set amount of time. Nothing breaks the stealth mode; it just lasts a certain amount of time. I'm thinking 30 seconds at complex. But obviously if you start killing people or hacking, people will become suspicious. It would demand a greater degree of awareness and definitely make for some interesting scout gameplay. "Dat freakin' scout's a spy!"
Exactly! >:}D |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4306
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 14:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
I like this proposal. And yes, CCP has brought it up as part of the road map for Dust's development but it's nice to at least help CCP get it right the first time.
Source: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/03/equipment-is-your-friend/
According to CCP, it's going to be an equipment item anyways. That said, I really don't mind if the cloak is either indefinite or limited time as long as the mechanics are fair and balanced. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4306
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 14:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Awesome Pantaloons wrote:I have an idea for the cloaking device that is a little less conventional. My idea is similar: takes an equipment slot, decent CPU, high PG, but rather than a device that rends you less visible, one that makes you appear friendly to the enemy for a set amount of time. Nothing breaks the stealth mode; it just lasts a certain amount of time. I'm thinking 30 seconds at complex. But obviously if you start killing people or hacking, people will become suspicious. It would demand a greater degree of awareness and definitely make for some interesting scout gameplay.
I like this. I can finally go all Brutus on my enemies. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5510
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 14:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:I like this proposal. And yes, CCP has brought it up as part of the road map for Dust's development but it's nice to at least help CCP get it right the first time. Source: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/03/equipment-is-your-friend/According to CCP, it's going to be an equipment item anyways. That said, I really don't mind if the cloak is either indefinite or limited time as long as the mechanics are fair and balanced. Best thing they could do is add a limited cloaking ability for scouts, already built into the suit that compliments the cloaking module. That way they can do something cloaking related better than any other suit. |
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Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
212
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 14:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Garth Mandra wrote:Not bad.
I have a couple of things I would do differently: -hacking should deactivate the cloak -don't disable shields (it messes with tanking choices and balance too much)
What about a cloak and decloak sound? Should they be as load as the current ones? I think the shields should deactivate because otherwise the shield-based scouts will have complete dominance over others when it comes to any combat options. yes but your shield deactivating cloak would favor armour tanking instead, which in term just flips it so armour tanking is better. |
Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
212
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 14:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:I like this proposal. And yes, CCP has brought it up as part of the road map for Dust's development but it's nice to at least help CCP get it right the first time. Source: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/03/equipment-is-your-friend/According to CCP, it's going to be an equipment item anyways. That said, I really don't mind if the cloak is either indefinite or limited time as long as the mechanics are fair and balanced. Best thing they could do is add a limited cloaking ability for scouts, already built into the suit that compliments the cloaking module. That way they can do something cloaking related better than any other suit. i don't know. This wouldnt define a scouts role but rather make it a tool ie. logis. Logis used to be the multi-talented support role and now people use them as a wp farm because of their high cpu and pg you can spam all sorts of equipment.
This is not wha i want scouts to be.
Scouts are already a dead and dying race... They will join the medium frames weather they like it or not. join us or perish. resistance is futile. anything a scout can do a medium can do better. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1086
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 14:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Awesome Pantaloons wrote:I have an idea for the cloaking device that is a little less conventional. My idea is similar: takes an equipment slot, decent CPU, high PG, but rather than a device that rends you less visible, one that makes you appear friendly to the enemy for a set amount of time. Nothing breaks the stealth mode; it just lasts a certain amount of time. I'm thinking 30 seconds at complex. But obviously if you start killing people or hacking, people will become suspicious. It would demand a greater degree of awareness and definitely make for some interesting scout gameplay.
Play KZ much? But that's my main stay role in KZ. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1594
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 16:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mac Dac wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Garth Mandra wrote:Not bad.
I have a couple of things I would do differently: -hacking should deactivate the cloak -don't disable shields (it messes with tanking choices and balance too much)
What about a cloak and decloak sound? Should they be as load as the current ones? I think the shields should deactivate because otherwise the shield-based scouts will have complete dominance over others when it comes to any combat options. yes but your shield deactivating cloak would favor armour tanking instead, which in term just flips it so armour tanking is better.
But then you'll have to choose between armour and profile dampeners. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1594
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 16:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Nope. Octopus cloak only for scout suits. That'd be balanced, and fair. No other suits needs cloaking, and invisible cloaks are always OP or UP. Why only for scout suits? I agree that since 1.4 light frames in general have needed even more love than before. But denying content to others just for the sake of balance seems counter productive. let light frames have heavy weapons then.
This is hardly comparable to heavy weaponry. All you need to do is give a reason why the item should be scout only. Your reasoning seems a bit arbitrary, |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5512
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 16:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mac Dac wrote:Cosgar wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:I like this proposal. And yes, CCP has brought it up as part of the road map for Dust's development but it's nice to at least help CCP get it right the first time. Source: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/03/equipment-is-your-friend/According to CCP, it's going to be an equipment item anyways. That said, I really don't mind if the cloak is either indefinite or limited time as long as the mechanics are fair and balanced. Best thing they could do is add a limited cloaking ability for scouts, already built into the suit that compliments the cloaking module. That way they can do something cloaking related better than any other suit. i don't know. This wouldnt define a scouts role but rather make it a tool ie. logis. Logis used to be the multi-talented support role and now people use them as a wp farm because of their high cpu and pg you can spam all sorts of equipment. This is not wha i want scouts to be. Scouts are already a dead and dying race... They will join the medium frames weather they like it or not. join us or perish. resistance is futile. anything a scout can do a medium can do better. edit: if its not clear im against scout only cloak cause it just sounds like an exploit. I'm not saying make cloaking a scout only thing. Just make them better at cloaking than everyone else since they'll have additional traits tied to their suit. The only other option would be to give the cloaking equipment a crazy high CPU/PG cost while scouts have a fitting reduction, or an additional efficacy bonus for scouts with cloaking. Everyone with an equipment slot is going to have access so scouts need something to give them a clear advantage. |
zero travesty
Uncanny Assualt Mercs
8
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
sounds like a good idea to me! |
Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
212
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 00:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Mac Dac wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Garth Mandra wrote:Not bad.
I have a couple of things I would do differently: -hacking should deactivate the cloak -don't disable shields (it messes with tanking choices and balance too much)
What about a cloak and decloak sound? Should they be as load as the current ones? I think the shields should deactivate because otherwise the shield-based scouts will have complete dominance over others when it comes to any combat options. yes but your shield deactivating cloak would favor armour tanking instead, which in term just flips it so armour tanking is better. But then you'll have to choose between armour and profile dampeners. for a scout suit. ... does it even matter if they run armour plates. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1595
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 00:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
I don't think I follow @MacDoc.
You seemed to be saying that it does matter in your post. |
SgtDoughnut
Red Star Jr. EoN.
193
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 01:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
Honestly it should work like the spy cloak from TF2 when active you are totally invisible, but cannot do anything. When either activating or deactivating the cloak you make a rather obvious noise that is easy to pick out if you know what you are listening for. You cannot attack until the cloak totally wears off either. |
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