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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1589
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Posted - 2013.09.27 01:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
We've been expecting these for months now. Maybe I can rekindle our interest with this thread.
Chunky Munkey's cloaking device:
It's an equipment item. Avg CPU requirements, high PG requirements.
Once activated, the cloak makes you somewhat-entirely invisible, and lowers your scan profile by a reasonable amount, for a fixed period of time.
The cloak is deactivated by performing any action other than movement & hacking. Or by equipping & deactivating it manually.
Deactivation starts a cooldown similar to the scanner, & varies according to the different cloaks.
You may still be scanned while cloaked, but will not be physically visible.
In much of sci-fi, cloaks commandeer shield generators. For balance, as well as lore purposes, I think this transfers well to Dust. As such: Activating the cloak deactivates your shields. This balances the survivability bonus of being invisible, and means that anyone smart enough to detect a cloaked clone, has a reasonable chance of killing them.
When the cloak is deactivated, the standard "shield depleted" delay begins for shield recharge.
Obviously such an item is tailored to scout gameplay. How to make a cloaking device scout-friendly:
The amount of time the cloak stays in effect is decided by a number that varies according to the cloak you're using, which is then divided by your total scan profile. Thereby favouring low scan profiles. This way we don't have to limit the cloak to the scout suit, but scouts will never the less see much greater efficiency from them.
The shield penalty for the cloak will hopefully balance what I think is likely to be the significant superiority of the Caldari scout in the future. Making all scouts, not just shield-tanked ones appealing.
A scout specialisation bonus to cloak use would also be welcome.
What do you think mercs? Share your thoughts. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1590
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 02:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Garth Mandra wrote:Not bad.
I have a couple of things I would do differently: -hacking should deactivate the cloak -don't disable shields (it messes with tanking choices and balance too much)
What about a cloak and decloak sound? Should they be as load as the current ones?
I think the shields should deactivate because otherwise the shield-based scouts will have complete dominance over others when it comes to any combat options. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1590
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 02:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Scout suit. That is ALL!
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1591
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 03:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Nope. Octopus cloak only for scout suits. That'd be balanced, and fair. No other suits needs cloaking, and invisible cloaks are always OP or UP.
Why only for scout suits? I agree that since 1.4 light frames in general have needed even more love than before. But denying content to others just for the sake of balance seems counter productive. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1594
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 04:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Nope. Octopus cloak only for scout suits. That'd be balanced, and fair. No other suits needs cloaking, and invisible cloaks are always OP or UP. Why only for scout suits? I agree that since 1.4 light frames in general have needed even more love than before. But denying content to others just for the sake of balance seems counter productive. What would be the purpose of a heavy using a cloak other than trolling? same for for the mediums. The light suit is the only one whom wouldn't abuse it, as if they are spotted through the octopus cloak, they'll die pretty quick. A medium or heavy on the other hand will be fine unless it's a couple of people.
Hence the scan profile equation. Commandos would get the least use out of the item. They would also be less able to use it to ambush, given their reduced speed, and would suffer the biggest loss of survivability from the shield penalty. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1594
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 16:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mac Dac wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Garth Mandra wrote:Not bad.
I have a couple of things I would do differently: -hacking should deactivate the cloak -don't disable shields (it messes with tanking choices and balance too much)
What about a cloak and decloak sound? Should they be as load as the current ones? I think the shields should deactivate because otherwise the shield-based scouts will have complete dominance over others when it comes to any combat options. yes but your shield deactivating cloak would favor armour tanking instead, which in term just flips it so armour tanking is better.
But then you'll have to choose between armour and profile dampeners. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1594
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 16:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Nope. Octopus cloak only for scout suits. That'd be balanced, and fair. No other suits needs cloaking, and invisible cloaks are always OP or UP. Why only for scout suits? I agree that since 1.4 light frames in general have needed even more love than before. But denying content to others just for the sake of balance seems counter productive. let light frames have heavy weapons then.
This is hardly comparable to heavy weaponry. All you need to do is give a reason why the item should be scout only. Your reasoning seems a bit arbitrary, |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1595
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 00:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't think I follow @MacDoc.
You seemed to be saying that it does matter in your post. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1596
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 11:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mac Dac wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:I don't think I follow @MacDoc.
You seemed to be saying that it does matter in your post. yeah i was saying that a scout doesn't benefit much from armour plates cause they slow you down and give little improvement to scout survivabilty. A scout is still paper thin with armour plates.
At the risk of sounding patronising here, you said the shield penalty would favour armour tanking, and then pointed out that armour tanking isn't good for stealth. So how does it favour armour tanking? |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1600
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 15:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mac Dac wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Mac Dac wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:I don't think I follow @MacDoc.
You seemed to be saying that it does matter in your post. yeah i was saying that a scout doesn't benefit much from armour plates cause they slow you down and give little improvement to scout survivabilty. A scout is still paper thin with armour plates. At the risk of sounding patronising here, you said the shield penalty would favour armour tanking, and then pointed out that armour tanking isn't good for stealth. So how does it favour armour tanking? sorry i am horrible at communicating sometimes. I was saying that if your shields are completely wiped out every time you activate your cloak then it would put shield tanking at a dis advantage. So if you have a scout suit that favors shield tanking and has a lot of high slots ,ie. minmatar, then your kind of screwed over. where as a suit that favors armour tanking and has a lot of low slots does not lose tha much. And since armour tanking on a scout is some what useless then most people would stack dampners instead. In short. shield tanking is better for scouts since there is no speed penalty, but if a cloak wipes out your shields and you were stacking extenders... your poop. So in terms the suit with more low slots won't get that much benefit from armour tanking but they can stack dampners instead. So shields would lose their a portion of hp while armour won't lose as much. And suits that favors armour can stack dampners while suits that favors shield can't stack as much dampners. does this help?
Well, it clarifies that you made the error I thought you were making, yes. Shield tanking is superior for scouts, I agree. That's precisely why I want a shield penalty, otherwise the Minmatar & Caldari scouts will just be outright superior. You can have survivability through shields, or you can have survivability through stealth. Giving them both leaves Gallente & possibly Amarr scouts with no niche from which to approach the balance. |
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1600
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Posted - 2013.09.28 15:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Foxhound Elite wrote:Should only be for scouts. I have enough problems with forge heavys not rendering when I'm flying my dropship, the last thing I need is invisible ones, just waiting to materialize in my blind spot, proceeding to two/three-shot me.
*cough*EqSlot*cough* |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1606
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 15:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:Shield dropping or drain for cloaking is extremely unbalanced to minmatar and caldari. The only cloak effecting for dropsuits should be frames. The same way profile is.
As has been discussed earlier in the thread, shield-tanking is now the only viable option for scout survival. Adding the shield penalty balances this, so that Gallente isn't left in the dust. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1606
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 11:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Since we are all throwing out idea how it works...
* Duration of 30/60/90 * Cooldown of 60/90/120 * Avg cpu cost, higher than avg pg cost * Shooting, sprinting, hacking, and taking damage deactivate it. (perhaps proportional cooldown to time active) * No change to scan profile. (Your body is still physically there so stuff bounces off you just the same) * No loss of shields
Where are you getting that scouts *have* to shield tank? Armor tanking is a hell of a lot more beneficial to a scout atm as far as I can tell. It gives you more health than a shield module and requires less cpu. The speed loss is negligible since our minor speed increase does little to help us. Not to mention the higher pg requirements (which I agree it should need) will most likely make stealth easier to equip on a Gal scout since the cal scout will probably have less pg than the gal.
Apart from the base HP, scouts have amazing shield stats. Even with 3shield extenders my minnie light frame can engage an enemy, dive behind cover, and pop back out with full health again, before even an assault suit has had a chance to recover their own shields. At least that's what used to happen before 1.4. In short, a shield extender means more to a light frame than any other kind of suit. The people who think the Caldari heavy will be amazing, haven't thought enough about why they like shields.
Armour plates on the other hand, may offer light frames the biggest %age increase in health in the game, but they have none of the intrinsic benefits of shields, and their purpose is to be able to withstand a larger amount of damage in individual encounters. Something that scouts obviously don't achieve very well. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1606
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 11:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mac Dac wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Xender17 wrote:Shield dropping or drain for cloaking is extremely unbalanced to minmatar and caldari. The only cloak effecting for dropsuits should be frames. The same way profile is. As has been discussed earlier in the thread, shield-tanking is now the only viable option for scout survival. Adding the shield penalty balances this, so that Gallente isn't left in the dust. but gallente aent left in the dust. they have low slots which can hold dampners and currently the only scout that can break the scanners theshold. minmatar may have more hp but gallente have more stealth. bring it.... i love a friendly forum argument.
That's exactly my point. The current balance in these suits is HP vs stealth. Allowing a shield-based suit to cloak with no penalty shifts the balance from stealth vs HP, to stealth vs HP and stealth. |
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