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Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
212
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Posted - 2013.09.27 14:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Garth Mandra wrote:Not bad.
I have a couple of things I would do differently:
-hacking should deactivate the cloak
-don't disable shields (it messes with tanking choices and balance too much)
What about a cloak and decloak sound? Should they be as load as the current ones? I think the shields should deactivate because otherwise the shield-based scouts will have complete dominance over others when it comes to any combat options.
yes but your shield deactivating cloak would favor armour tanking instead, which in term just flips it so armour tanking is better. |
Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
212
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Posted - 2013.09.27 14:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:I like this proposal. And yes, CCP has brought it up as part of the road map for Dust's development but it's nice to at least help CCP get it right the first time. Source: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/03/equipment-is-your-friend/According to CCP, it's going to be an equipment item anyways. That said, I really don't mind if the cloak is either indefinite or limited time as long as the mechanics are fair and balanced. Best thing they could do is add a limited cloaking ability for scouts, already built into the suit that compliments the cloaking module. That way they can do something cloaking related better than any other suit.
i don't know.  This wouldnt define a scouts role but rather make it a tool ie. logis. Logis used to be the multi-talented support role and now people use them as a wp farm because of their high cpu and pg you can spam all sorts of equipment.
This is not wha i want scouts to be.
Scouts are already a dead and dying race...
They will join the medium frames weather they like it or not.
join us or perish.
resistance is futile.
anything a scout can do a medium can do better. |
Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
212
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 00:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Mac Dac wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Garth Mandra wrote:Not bad.
I have a couple of things I would do differently:
-hacking should deactivate the cloak
-don't disable shields (it messes with tanking choices and balance too much)
What about a cloak and decloak sound? Should they be as load as the current ones? I think the shields should deactivate because otherwise the shield-based scouts will have complete dominance over others when it comes to any combat options. yes but your shield deactivating cloak would favor armour tanking instead, which in term just flips it so armour tanking is better. But then you'll have to choose between armour and profile dampeners.
for a scout suit.  ... does it even matter if they run armour plates. |
Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
212
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 01:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Mac Dac wrote:Cosgar wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:I like this proposal. And yes, CCP has brought it up as part of the road map for Dust's development but it's nice to at least help CCP get it right the first time. Source: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/03/equipment-is-your-friend/According to CCP, it's going to be an equipment item anyways. That said, I really don't mind if the cloak is either indefinite or limited time as long as the mechanics are fair and balanced. Best thing they could do is add a limited cloaking ability for scouts, already built into the suit that compliments the cloaking module. That way they can do something cloaking related better than any other suit. i don't know. This wouldnt define a scouts role but rather make it a tool ie. logis. Logis used to be the multi-talented support role and now people use them as a wp farm because of their high cpu and pg you can spam all sorts of equipment. This is not wha i want scouts to be. Scouts are already a dead and dying race...
They will join the medium frames weather they like it or not.
join us or perish.
resistance is futile. anything a scout can do a medium can do better. edit: if its not clear im against scout only cloak cause it just sounds like an exploit. I'm not saying make cloaking a scout only thing. Just make them better at cloaking than everyone else since they'll have additional traits tied to their suit. The only other option would be to give the cloaking equipment a crazy high CPU/PG cost while scouts have a fitting reduction, or an additional efficacy bonus for scouts with cloaking. Everyone with an equipment slot is going to have access so scouts need something to give them a clear advantage. ,
ooooohh. in that cause i agree with you 100%.
Scouts definitely need to have an advantage in cloaking, but i think cloaking in general has to have some sort of sacrifice too. Thats why i am trying to rally support for a cloak that is tied into the scan system. I'll explain.
If cloaking was tied directly into the scan system the scouts would have a natural advantage ovr other suits. The cloak would work with your scan profile being a guide to how well you cloak. for example a assault who used his low slots for armour mods and also has a profile of around 50 would active the cloak and look like a ghost, transparent but visable. where as a scout who used his low slots for dampners would have a profile of around 18 and look like glimmers ,hard to see but not impossible. The cloak would reduce visablity the lower your profile is while only letting you stay cloaked for a set time (im thinking 20 seconds for standard, 25 for advanced, and 30 for prototype). Fireing could spike your profile when cloaked which would make you more visable temporarily.
... Sorry Chuncky Monkey for kind of barging in and throwing my idea at you. I like your idea but i think mines is a good way to balence and i want to know how the community would like it. find flaws stuff like that. i really don't want you to think that i thik your idea is stupid or anything its just that this is a unique approach and Dust is special so it should have its own way different from how other games implement cloaks. again im not trying to take over your thread just had to get my cloak idea out. |
Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
212
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 01:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:I don't think I follow @MacDoc.
You seemed to be saying that it does matter in your post.
yeah i was saying that a scout doesn't benefit much from armour plates cause they slow you down and give little improvement to scout survivabilty. A scout is still paper thin with armour plates. |
Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
213
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Posted - 2013.09.28 14:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Mac Dac wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:I don't think I follow @MacDoc.
You seemed to be saying that it does matter in your post. yeah i was saying that a scout doesn't benefit much from armour plates cause they slow you down and give little improvement to scout survivabilty. A scout is still paper thin with armour plates. At the risk of sounding patronising here, you said the shield penalty would favour armour tanking, and then pointed out that armour tanking isn't good for stealth. So how does it favour armour tanking?
sorry i am horrible at communicating sometimes.
I was saying that if your shields are completely wiped out every time you activate your cloak then it would put shield tanking at a dis advantage. So if you have a scout suit that favors shield tanking and has a lot of high slots ,ie. minmatar, then your kind of screwed over. where as a suit that favors armour tanking and has a lot of low slots does not lose tha much. And since armour tanking on a scout is some what useless then most people would stack dampners instead.
In short. shield tanking is better for scouts since there is no speed penalty, but if a cloak wipes out your shields and you were stacking extenders... your poop. So in terms the suit with more low slots won't get that much benefit from armour tanking but they can stack dampners instead. So shields would lose their a portion of hp while armour won't lose as much. And suits that favors armour can stack dampners while suits that favors shield can't stack as much dampners.
does this help? |
Mac Dac
Wraith Shadow Guards
214
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Posted - 2013.09.29 02:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Xender17 wrote:Shield dropping or drain for cloaking is extremely unbalanced to minmatar and caldari.
The only cloak effecting for dropsuits should be frames. The same way profile is. As has been discussed earlier in the thread, shield-tanking is now the only viable option for scout survival. Adding the shield penalty balances this, so that Gallente isn't left in the dust.
but gallente aent left in the dust. they have low slots which can hold dampners and currently the only scout that can break the scanners theshold.
minmatar may have more hp but gallente have more stealth. |
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