DUST Search - [Request] Re-balance Damage Mods

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Damage mods in general are an issue in this game and my reasoning is below. I am using the Duvolle AR as an example here, but the same issues hold true through any weapon category you choose to look at with the exception of weapons that can already ohk without damage mods. Just to be clear, this thread is in no way anti-AR, this thread is only to show that the damage mods need to be rethought as they are making it far too easy to kill even the best of suits in less than a couple seconds.

Or, to put it another way, the weapons aren't severely unbalanced in Dust. The weapons are mildly unbalanced, damage mods make them severely unbalanced. The higher damage you can do per shot with a weapon, the more damage is added with a damage mod. Also, the more rapidly a weapon fires, the more effect the damage mod has on a firefight. This may not appear bad on paper, but in practice it is completely unbalancing the game.

3 complex damage mods on a Duvolle AR with proficiency 5 gives you almost 54 damage per bullet. With a bonus to shields and a slight penalty to armor. With 60 bullets in a clip. Forget the 4, let's call it 50 so those bad at math can do the math easily. 60 bullets times fifty damage per bullet is 3000 damage per clip.

The best heavy suits in the game average around 1300 HP. If you were to get no head shots at all, land all body shots on this heavy, it would take you only 26 rounds to kill the strongest suit in the game. At 750RPM, that's 12.5 bullets per second. Which means, with no head shots whatsoever, that heavy is dead in 2.08 seconds.

How about those scouts? They have a hard enough time as it is. Scouts vary in health greatly since they are always built for various things. You will almost never see two scout suits built the same way in the same match. But let's just say you are running a moderate amount of health because you want to keep your speed up. Let's say a proto shield tanked gallente scout eh?

We'll toss on a basic reactive plate for good measure. Health-wise, with armor and shield upgrades at 5, you are looking at one complex shield extender and one reactive plate, which takes the total health up to 365 total HP. 6 bullets from this weapon and you are crawling away, 7 and you are a stain on the floor. 7 bullets from a gun that fires 12.5 bullets per second.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

My proposed rebalance would have an effect on every infantry class that runs damage mods, and that goes for everything from HMGs to Forge Guns, Swarms to Lasers, SMG's to Nova Knives. Just keep that in mind.

Damage mods need the % that they adjust the damage output changed. For a basic damage mod, the damage output needs to be dropped to 2%, the enhanced to 4%, and the proto to 6% and the stacking penalties need to stay in place. Why?

A) This will hurt the damage mod stackers of the higher damage output weapons the hardest (snipers, AVers{I am AV, no bias against them}, mass drivers, forge guns, shotguns, scrambler rifles, etc), thus helping bring those weapons back in line with the rest of the weapons we have.

B) This will hurt the damage mod stackers of full auto weapons the second hardest (ARs, lasers, AScRs, SMG's, etc.). bringing THEM back down to level as well

C) This will slow the rate at which most gunfights are over, thus adding a little more tracking back into the gameplay. That drew a lot of people to Dust back in closed beta, myself included.

D) This will make damage mods more on the level of usefulness of shield extenders instead of being a far better choice.

I've hated to see the gradual loss of a tracking shooter over the course of Uprising as hit detection and aiming got better, I hope it doesn't disappear completely.

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Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. 648	Posted - 2013.09.26 20:55:00 - [1] - Quote Damage mods in general are an issue in this game and my reasoning is below. I am using the Duvolle AR as an example here, but the same issues hold true through any weapon category you choose to look at with the exception of weapons that can already ohk without damage mods. Just to be clear, this thread is in no way anti-AR, this thread is only to show that the damage mods need to be rethought as they are making it far too easy to kill even the best of suits in less than a couple seconds. Or, to put it another way, the weapons aren't severely unbalanced in Dust. The weapons are mildly unbalanced, damage mods make them severely unbalanced. The higher damage you can do per shot with a weapon, the more damage is added with a damage mod. Also, the more rapidly a weapon fires, the more effect the damage mod has on a firefight. This may not appear bad on paper, but in practice it is completely unbalancing the game. 3 complex damage mods on a Duvolle AR with proficiency 5 gives you almost 54 damage per bullet. With a bonus to shields and a slight penalty to armor. With 60 bullets in a clip. Forget the 4, let's call it 50 so those bad at math can do the math easily this easily. 60 bullets times fifty damage per bullet is 3000 damage per clip. The best heavy suits in the game average around 1300 HP. If you were to get no head shots at all, land all body shots on this heavy, it would take you only 26 rounds to kill the strongest suit in the game. At 750RPM, that's 12.5 bullets per second. Which means, with no head shots whatsoever, that heavy is dead in 2.08 seconds. How about those scouts? They have a hard enough time as it is. Scouts vary in health greatly since they are always built for various things. You will almost never see two scout suits built the same way in the same match. But let's just say you are running a moderate amount of health because you want to keep your speed up. Let's say a proto shield tanked gallente scout eh? We'll toss on a basic reactive plate for good measure. Health-wise, with armor and shield upgrades at 5, you are looking at one complex shield extender and one reactive plate, which takes the total health up to 365 total HP. 6 bullets from this weapon and you are crawling away, 7 and you are a stain on the floor. 7 bullets from a gun that fires 12.5 bullets per second. __________________________________________________________________________________________________ My proposed rebalance would have an effect on every infantry class that runs damage mods, and that goes for everything from HMGs to Forge Guns, Swarms to Lasers, SMG's to Nova Knives. Just keep that in mind. Damage mods need the % that they adjust the damage output changed. For a basic damage mod, the damage output needs to be dropped to 2%, the enhanced to 4%, and the proto to 6% and the stacking penalties need to stay in place. Why? A) This will hurt the damage mod stackers of the higher damage output weapons the hardest (snipers, AVers{I am AV, no bias against them}, mass drivers, forge guns, shotguns, scrambler rifles, etc), thus helping bring those weapons back in line with the rest of the weapons we have. B) This will hurt the damage mod stackers of full auto weapons the second hardest (ARs, lasers, AScRs, SMG's, etc.). C) This will slow the rate at which most gunfights are over, thus adding a little more tracking back into the gameplay. That drew a lot of people to Dust back in closed beta, myself included. I've hated to see the gradual loss of a tracking shooter over the course of Uprising as hit detection and aiming got better, I hope it doesn't disappear completely.
Sarducar Kahn xCosmic Voidx The Superpowers 118	Posted - 2013.09.26 21:52:00 - [2] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Damage mods in general are an issue in this game and my reasoning is below. I am using the Duvolle AR as an example here, but the same issues hold true through any weapon category you choose to look at with the exception of weapons that can already ohk without damage mods. Just to be clear, this thread is in no way anti-AR, this thread is only to show that the damage mods need to be rethought as they are making it far too easy to kill even the best of suits in less than a couple seconds. Or, to put it another way, the weapons aren't severely unbalanced in Dust. The weapons are mildly unbalanced, damage mods make them severely unbalanced. The higher damage you can do per shot with a weapon, the more damage is added with a damage mod. Also, the more rapidly a weapon fires, the more effect the damage mod has on a firefight. This may not appear bad on paper, but in practice it is completely unbalancing the game. 3 complex damage mods on a Duvolle AR with proficiency 5 gives you almost 54 damage per bullet. With a bonus to shields and a slight penalty to armor. With 60 bullets in a clip. Forget the 4, let's call it 50 so those bad at math can do the math easily. 60 bullets times fifty damage per bullet is 3000 damage per clip. The best heavy suits in the game average around 1300 HP. If you were to get no head shots at all, land all body shots on this heavy, it would take you only 26 rounds to kill the strongest suit in the game. At 750RPM, that's 12.5 bullets per second. Which means, with no head shots whatsoever, that heavy is dead in 2.08 seconds. How about those scouts? They have a hard enough time as it is. Scouts vary in health greatly since they are always built for various things. You will almost never see two scout suits built the same way in the same match. But let's just say you are running a moderate amount of health because you want to keep your speed up. Let's say a proto shield tanked gallente scout eh? We'll toss on a basic reactive plate for good measure. Health-wise, with armor and shield upgrades at 5, you are looking at one complex shield extender and one reactive plate, which takes the total health up to 365 total HP. 6 bullets from this weapon and you are crawling away, 7 and you are a stain on the floor. 7 bullets from a gun that fires 12.5 bullets per second. __________________________________________________________________________________________________ My proposed rebalance would have an effect on every infantry class that runs damage mods, and that goes for everything from HMGs to Forge Guns, Swarms to Lasers, SMG's to Nova Knives. Just keep that in mind. Damage mods need the % that they adjust the damage output changed. For a basic damage mod, the damage output needs to be dropped to 2%, the enhanced to 4%, and the proto to 6% and the stacking penalties need to stay in place. Why? A) This will hurt the damage mod stackers of the higher damage output weapons the hardest (snipers, AVers{I am AV, no bias against them}, mass drivers, forge guns, shotguns, scrambler rifles, etc), thus helping bring those weapons back in line with the rest of the weapons we have. B) This will hurt the damage mod stackers of full auto weapons the second hardest (ARs, lasers, AScRs, SMG's, etc.). bringing THEM back down to level as well C) This will slow the rate at which most gunfights are over, thus adding a little more tracking back into the gameplay. That drew a lot of people to Dust back in closed beta, myself included. D) This will make damage mods more on the level of usefulness of shield extenders instead of being a far better choice. I've hated to see the gradual loss of a tracking shooter over the course of Uprising as hit detection and aiming got better, I hope it doesn't disappear completely. As a vehicler I approve. :D I am tired of being 2 shored by stacked damage mod Proto AV.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1302	Posted - 2013.09.26 22:16:00 - [3] - Quote To be honest I've always thought that they should be taken out of the game and be replaced with weapon customization, it simply should not be in infantry combat as it adds nothing to the game.
Draco Cerberus Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 334	Posted - 2013.09.26 22:53:00 - [4] - Quote So time to skill damage mods, thanks for the heads up guys!
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 1004	Posted - 2013.09.26 23:11:00 - [5] - Quote I have zero damage mods on any of my suits besides my kamikaze suits, and they still kill things at an extreme rate. Base damage is much to high, not the stacking of damage mods. They only exacerbate the issue. Rollback the 10% damage buff. TTK will fall into line. But, I can't disapprove of nerfing the power to two shot Fully Fit mil ISK dropshits and HAVn'ts.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. 233	Posted - 2013.09.27 01:16:00 - [6] - Quote Maybe damage mods shouldn't work as well for shield based suits and biotics/scanning mods don't work as well for armor based suits? The Amarr base their combat philosophy around damage mods and the Gallente are quite fond of them as well. Replacing them with something else that achieved the same affect in different ways would be better though, such as mods that increased fire rate/reload speed, or decreased heat buildup or dispersion/kick, ect... I am sure a heavy would like to reduce the reload time of their weapon, and the full automatic weapon users would like to increase their fire rate further, and shotgunners would no doubt love to decrease their spread or increase their range. As a scrambler rifle user I know I would love to throw some heat reduction mods on my suits with maybe a range increasing mod. I don't know how effective these mods would be, but some of them, such as a mod that increased range would have to be pretty weak to be balanced and others, such as ones that reduce reload time would have a larger effect to be worth using for most suits. Modules such as these would have similar effects but wouldn't a direct damage increase. Even a faster firerate would have the downside of running out of ammo faster and a bigger kick/dispersion. This would increase the TTK of the game overall, but would still leave useful modules for armor tanked suits.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2491	Posted - 2013.09.27 12:03:00 - [7] - Quote I think "Handheld Weapon Upgrades" provides very narrow options myself (just damage mods apparently). We could probably have mods with actual drawbacks and some flavor without too much work, e.g.: Heat Sink (Low Slot): STD: 5% less heat production ADV: 10% less heat production PRO: 15% less heat production Precision Servo Package (Low Slot): STD: 4% faster reload ADV: 8% faster reload PRO: 12% faster reload Clip Extender (Low Slot): STD: +5% Magazine / +1 clip (whichever is greater) PRO: +12% Magazine / +2 clip (whichever is greater) Stabilizer set (High Slot): STD: Recoil reduction +5%, accuracy recovery speed +5% ADV: " " 10%, " " 10% PRO: " " 15%, " " 15% Barrel Modification (High Slot): STD: 4% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 15% more heat produced ADV: 8% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 20% more heat produced PRO: 12% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 20% more heat produced ...or you know, whatever. Weapon Mods could potentially be a lot more interesting than they are currently.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. 651	Posted - 2013.09.27 12:48:00 - [8] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: I think "Handheld Weapon Upgrades" provides very narrow options myself (just damage mods apparently). We could probably have mods with actual drawbacks and some flavor without too much work, e.g.: Heat Sink (Low Slot): STD: 5% less heat production ADV: 10% less heat production PRO: 15% less heat production Precision Servo Package (Low Slot): STD: 4% faster reload ADV: 8% faster reload PRO: 12% faster reload Clip Extender (Low Slot): STD: +5% Magazine / +1 clip (whichever is greater) PRO: +12% Magazine / +2 clip (whichever is greater) Stabilizer set (High Slot): STD: Recoil reduction +5%, accuracy recovery speed +5% ADV: " " 10%, " " 10% PRO: " " 15%, " " 15% Barrel Modification (High Slot): STD: 4% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 15% more heat produced ADV: 8% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 20% more heat produced PRO: 12% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 20% more heat produced ...or you know, whatever. Weapon Mods could potentially be a lot more interesting than they are currently. I would actually prefer these types of modules over blatant damage per bullet increases any day, but as it stands damage mods are still an issue that would be easy to fix and needs to be fixed soon. Meeko Fent wrote: I have zero damage mods on any of my suits besides my kamikaze suits, and they still kill things at an extreme rate. Base damage is much to high, not the stacking of damage mods. They only exacerbate the issue. Rollback the 10% damage buff. TTK will fall into line. But, I can't disapprove of nerfing the power to two shot Fully Fit mil ISK dropshits and HAVn'ts. I made it very clear in the beginning of the OP that damage mods were not the only issue, and obviously there are plenty of people who do not run damage mods, however damage mods are exacerbating the already troublesome issue of every weapon having too much damage output (with perhaps 1 or 2 exceptions). Not everyone makes use of damage mods, but anyone that does is using a module that gives a far more viable effect than any other high slot module in the game. They need to be toned down. As for all weapons doing too much damage, we are supposed to see changes in 1.6. We'll see how that goes.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 1024	Posted - 2013.09.27 13:20:00 - [9] - Quote Vehicle damage mods need to be brought back to 20%. It'll give shield tanks the edge at a distance, again.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 1024	Posted - 2013.09.27 13:22:00 - [10] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: I think "Handheld Weapon Upgrades" provides very narrow options myself (just damage mods apparently). We could probably have mods with actual drawbacks and some flavor without too much work, e.g.: Heat Sink (Low Slot): STD: 5% less heat production ADV: 10% less heat production PRO: 15% less heat production Precision Servo Package (Low Slot): STD: 4% faster reload ADV: 8% faster reload PRO: 12% faster reload Clip Extender (Low Slot): STD: +5% Magazine / +1 clip (whichever is greater) PRO: +12% Magazine / +2 clip (whichever is greater) Stabilizer set (High Slot): STD: Recoil reduction +5%, accuracy recovery speed +5% ADV: " " 10%, " " 10% PRO: " " 15%, " " 15% Barrel Modification (High Slot): STD: 4% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 15% more heat produced ADV: 8% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 20% more heat produced PRO: 12% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 20% more heat produced ...or you know, whatever. Weapon Mods could potentially be a lot more interesting than they are currently. i put barrel mod on MD. so OP. :)

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2494	Posted - 2013.09.27 13:37:00 - [11] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: I think "Handheld Weapon Upgrades" provides very narrow options myself (just damage mods apparently). We could probably have mods with actual drawbacks and some flavor without too much work, e.g.: Heat Sink (Low Slot): STD: 5% less heat production ADV: 10% less heat production PRO: 15% less heat production Precision Servo Package (Low Slot): STD: 4% faster reload ADV: 8% faster reload PRO: 12% faster reload Clip Extender (Low Slot): STD: +5% Magazine / +1 clip (whichever is greater) PRO: +12% Magazine / +2 clip (whichever is greater) Stabilizer set (High Slot): STD: Recoil reduction +5%, accuracy recovery speed +5% ADV: " " 10%, " " 10% PRO: " " 15%, " " 15% Barrel Modification (High Slot): STD: 4% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 15% more heat produced ADV: 8% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 20% more heat produced PRO: 12% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 20% more heat produced ...or you know, whatever. Weapon Mods could potentially be a lot more interesting than they are currently. i put barrel mod on MD. so OP. :) Well, my suggestions sound pretty stupid when you put it like that... You could probably have certain mods only apply to certain kinds of weapons, though they'd need more "tags" or qualifiers on their side of the client. Right now, I think Sidearm/Light/Heavy are the only qualifiers (you can put an inappropriate and useless damage mod on a suit). So, they could probably group some weapon sets together... though apparently that was giving them issues with suit bonuses and armor before, so maybe it's harder for them than I'd think... I was trying to be aware of making them good for "any" weapon when I made the clip-size module, but you're absolutely right - the Barrel mod would be totally broken for MDs and other slower-firing weapons.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 374	Posted - 2013.09.27 14:45:00 - [12] - Quote i like this idea. but i think the damage mods % should be 1% for std 2% adv and 3% for proto. just to decrease the gap a little further. a nerf to damage mods needs to be done regardless.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1551	Posted - 2013.09.27 18:48:00 - [13] - Quote Zeylon's ideas are a great solution to this problem. And it is a problem because the advantage gained by using damage mods is far greater than any other mod, especially one that fits in a hi slot. For instance shield mods - a proto will only add just over one bullet worth of shield, so <0.1sec of health. Adding a drawback to damage mods would be a good starting point - like the suggested ROF reduction. In fact all mods should have some sort of drawback, like the previously mooted shield extenders increasing shield recharge delay.
Talos Vagheitan King Slayers 18	Posted - 2013.09.27 20:04:00 - [14] - Quote Just increase the stacking penalty.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. 652	Posted - 2013.09.29 03:30:00 - [15] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Just increase the stacking penalty. Increasing the stacking penalty still doesn't fix the problem of being able to easily get a 10% damage boost with the first mod, which is ridiculous for 90% of the weapons out there right now.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 953	Posted - 2013.09.29 03:57:00 - [16] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Vehicle damage mods need to be brought back to 20%. It'll give shield tanks the edge at a distance, again. We're not going back to that bullshit 2 shot all HAV's die.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 954	Posted - 2013.09.29 04:00:00 - [17] - Quote Goddammit forum Scotty!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. 652	Posted - 2013.09.29 04:18:00 - [18] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Vehicle damage mods need to be brought back to 20%. It'll give shield tanks the edge at a distance, again. So rail tanks can 1-shot farm RDV's again? ....Vehicles need help, but making it so that whichever team gets their tank in first becomes the only team with a tank kinda breaks them further from a Vehicle vs. Vehicle perspective.
Scotty-the-Matchmaking AI Kinsho Swords Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.09.29 16:12:00 - [19] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Goddammit forum Scotty! :)
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation 459	Posted - 2013.09.29 18:31:00 - [20] - Quote Please consider that damage mods are the only really useful mod if you dont wan to use shields. IMO standard and advanced damage mods are fine, proto damage mods could be nerfed a bit, maybe to 7-8%. I really belive that we need different weapon upgrades, i currently use 2 or 3 damage mods on my galente suits because there is nothing else USEFUL to fit. Give use mods to increase total ammo capacity, reload speed and decrease heat buildup and recoil with lower fiting req than damage mods and i will use them for sure

Seeth Mensch Damage Core corp. The Superpowers 41	Posted - 2013.09.29 20:30:00 - [21] - Quote Love some of these ideas!
Flint Beastgood III GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 184	Posted - 2013.10.01 17:19:00 - [22] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: I think "Handheld Weapon Upgrades" provides very narrow options myself (just damage mods apparently). We could probably have mods with actual drawbacks and some flavor without too much work, e.g.: Heat Sink (Low Slot): STD: 5% less heat production ADV: 10% less heat production PRO: 15% less heat production Precision Servo Package (Low Slot): STD: 4% faster reload ADV: 8% faster reload PRO: 12% faster reload Clip Extender (Low Slot): STD: +5% Magazine / +1 clip (whichever is greater) PRO: +12% Magazine / +2 clip (whichever is greater) Stabilizer set (High Slot): STD: Recoil reduction +5%, accuracy recovery speed +5% ADV: " " 10%, " " 10% PRO: " " 15%, " " 15% Barrel Modification (High Slot): STD: 4% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 15% more heat produced ADV: 8% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 20% more heat produced PRO: 12% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 20% more heat produced ...or you know, whatever. Weapon Mods could potentially be a lot more interesting than they are currently. You've got my vote buddy. +1 I've always thought that weapon mods were missing a lot, since it is actually only one mod and not mods plural, lol. It doesn't have to be said suggestions/stats (they are just for example), but more weapon mods along these lines would be great.
Flint Beastgood III GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 184	Posted - 2013.10.01 17:24:00 - [23] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Damage mods in general are an issue in this game and my reasoning is below. I am using the Duvolle AR as an example here, but the same issues hold true through any weapon category you choose to look at with the exception of weapons that can already ohk without damage mods. Just to be clear, this thread is in no way anti-AR, this thread is only to show that the damage mods need to be rethought as they are making it far too easy to kill even the best of suits in less than a couple seconds. Or, to put it another way, the weapons aren't severely unbalanced in Dust. The weapons are mildly unbalanced, damage mods make them severely unbalanced. The higher damage you can do per shot with a weapon, the more damage is added with a damage mod. Also, the more rapidly a weapon fires, the more effect the damage mod has on a firefight. This may not appear bad on paper, but in practice it is completely unbalancing the game. 3 complex damage mods on a Duvolle AR with proficiency 5 gives you almost 54 damage per bullet. With a bonus to shields and a slight penalty to armor. With 60 bullets in a clip. Forget the 4, let's call it 50 so those bad at math can do the math easily. 60 bullets times fifty damage per bullet is 3000 damage per clip. The best heavy suits in the game average around 1300 HP. If you were to get no head shots at all, land all body shots on this heavy, it would take you only 26 rounds to kill the strongest suit in the game. At 750RPM, that's 12.5 bullets per second. Which means, with no head shots whatsoever, that heavy is dead in 2.08 seconds. How about those scouts? They have a hard enough time as it is. Scouts vary in health greatly since they are always built for various things. You will almost never see two scout suits built the same way in the same match. But let's just say you are running a moderate amount of health because you want to keep your speed up. Let's say a proto shield tanked gallente scout eh? We'll toss on a basic reactive plate for good measure. Health-wise, with armor and shield upgrades at 5, you are looking at one complex shield extender and one reactive plate, which takes the total health up to 365 total HP. 6 bullets from this weapon and you are crawling away, 7 and you are a stain on the floor. 7 bullets from a gun that fires 12.5 bullets per second. __________________________________________________________________________________________________ My proposed rebalance would have an effect on every infantry class that runs damage mods, and that goes for everything from HMGs to Forge Guns, Swarms to Lasers, SMG's to Nova Knives. Just keep that in mind. Damage mods need the % that they adjust the damage output changed. For a basic damage mod, the damage output needs to be dropped to 2%, the enhanced to 4%, and the proto to 6% and the stacking penalties need to stay in place. Why? A) This will hurt the damage mod stackers of the higher damage output weapons the hardest (snipers, AVers{I am AV, no bias against them}, mass drivers, forge guns, shotguns, scrambler rifles, etc), thus helping bring those weapons back in line with the rest of the weapons we have. B) This will hurt the damage mod stackers of full auto weapons the second hardest (ARs, lasers, AScRs, SMG's, etc.). bringing THEM back down to level as well C) This will slow the rate at which most gunfights are over, thus adding a little more tracking back into the gameplay. That drew a lot of people to Dust back in closed beta, myself included. D) This will make damage mods more on the level of usefulness of shield extenders instead of being a far better choice. I've hated to see the gradual loss of a tracking shooter over the course of Uprising as hit detection and aiming got better, I hope it doesn't disappear completely. I quite like this idea. I have always had weapon upgrades at lvl3 but never really used them on anything apart from my advanced swarms. Lately, since training Laser Rifles, Scrambler Rifles and the Amarr Assault Dropsuit I have started using them on these fittings and have been loving it. Your suggestion would somewhat hurt me but I believe it would help the game overall and so I'd gladly accept this change. It would be great if they added some different flavours of weapon modules so players would actually have a choice rather than having only damage mods and thus no choice. This way the trends will change and it will also allow more customisation and diversity which is always a good thing.
Flint Beastgood III GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 184	Posted - 2013.10.01 17:28:00 - [24] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: I think "Handheld Weapon Upgrades" provides very narrow options myself (just damage mods apparently). We could probably have mods with actual drawbacks and some flavor without too much work, e.g.: Heat Sink (Low Slot): STD: 5% less heat production ADV: 10% less heat production PRO: 15% less heat production Precision Servo Package (Low Slot): STD: 4% faster reload ADV: 8% faster reload PRO: 12% faster reload Clip Extender (Low Slot): STD: +5% Magazine / +1 clip (whichever is greater) PRO: +12% Magazine / +2 clip (whichever is greater) Stabilizer set (High Slot): STD: Recoil reduction +5%, accuracy recovery speed +5% ADV: " " 10%, " " 10% PRO: " " 15%, " " 15% Barrel Modification (High Slot): STD: 4% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 15% more heat produced ADV: 8% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 20% more heat produced PRO: 12% Damage Increase, 10% decrease to rate of fire, 20% more heat produced ...or you know, whatever. Weapon Mods could potentially be a lot more interesting than they are currently. i put barrel mod on MD. so OP. :) LOL, I thought there would be one. As with other games, not all modules should work with all weapons.
Severus Smith Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 365	Posted - 2013.10.01 20:22:00 - [25] - Quote Instead of damage have them increase RoF. 10% increase to RoF on a Duvolle increases its DPS by 10% but keeps its damage per clip the same. So higher DPS = reloading more.
Severus Smith Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 365	Posted - 2013.10.01 20:40:00 - [26] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Instead of damage have them increase RoF. 10% increase to RoF on a Duvolle increases its DPS by 10% but keeps its damage per clip the same. So higher DPS = reloading more. Expanding on that idea. Weapon Rigs in EVE have positives and negatives. Bring similar things to DUST. Hybrid Locus Coordinator This modification is designed to increase the optimal range of hybrid weapons at the expense of decreased clip size / weapon capacity. Hybrid Burst Aerator This modification is designed to increase hybrid weapons rate of fire at the expense of decreased clip size / weapon capacity. Hybrid Collision Accelerator This modification is designed to increase a hybrid weapons damage at the expense of decreased clip size / weapon capacity. Basically you trade DPS, Range, or RoF for having to reload more. So stacking 3x HCA's may equal ~30% increase to damage. But on your Duvolle you now have only 42 bullets in your clip. Don't miss.


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