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Eyemakerwet
R 0 N 1 N
1
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Posted - 2013.09.25 20:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
With the increase in scanners being used its important to have a counter for this. I I propose a deployable device that has an area of effect that interferes with the active scanners abilities to pick up troops, equipment etc. It will mirror the scanner in what it can deflect. Dampeners are not enough. Only one suit can even get low enough to remain stealthy. This is "NOT" about stealth as much as it is about counter intelligence. |
Shadow of War88
0uter.Heaven
74
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Posted - 2013.09.25 21:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
for PC that would be a very valuable tool |
Eyemakerwet
R 0 N 1 N
1
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Posted - 2013.09.25 21:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shadow of War88 wrote:for PC that would be a very valuable tool
Perfect to cover a defended position or hiding an uplink in an enymy area. |
Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
205
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Posted - 2013.09.25 23:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Eyemakerwet wrote:Shadow of War88 wrote:for PC that would be a very valuable tool Perfect to cover a defended position or hiding an uplink in an enemy area.
Bump dat! |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
1344
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Posted - 2013.09.25 23:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
This would be very cool to see; maybe a person could gain +5WP for every unit that is protected from a scan by the equipment.
Also, a variant that doesn't stop scanners but instead creates an area on the minimap (and overview map) which does not transmit anything. Like those movies where they put a picture of the area over the camera so it looks as if nothing's happening. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
996
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Posted - 2013.09.26 00:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Webs too! |
Eyemakerwet
R 0 N 1 N
7
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Posted - 2013.09.26 01:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
as long as they put a cap on wp, it could work. I was also thinking as far as e-war goes possibly even a variant that blocks comm signals. But that could be overdoing it. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
422
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Posted - 2013.09.26 01:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
And scanning interceptors? An equipment slot mod that, when active, will detect any active scanners pointed in your direction, thus revealing them in the same way they reveal you. |
Eyemakerwet
R 0 N 1 N
7
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Posted - 2013.09.26 02:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:And scanning interceptors? An equipment slot mod that, when active, will detect any active scanners pointed in your direction, thus revealing them in the same way they reveal you.
That would be pretty cool. Then u could focus on him taking out their ability to scan. |
Talos Vagheitan
King Slayers
15
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Posted - 2013.09.26 04:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
Scanning is on the rise. Soon it will become OP. There needs to be a viable counter other than dampeners.
Great idea. +1 |
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Eyemakerwet
R 0 N 1 N
10
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Posted - 2013.09.26 11:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
I wouldn't say op. Dust has a counter to everything. Why not scanners? |
Eyemakerwet
R 0 N 1 N
12
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Posted - 2013.09.26 15:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
I will post some possible variations soon. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
226
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Posted - 2013.09.26 16:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Oh great, another thread about deployable jammers.
Here's why it's OP and not a valid counter to scanners:
1) Active scanners are active items, meaning they must be constantly carried to be of use. It represents an equipment slot that is used up for the entirety of the game (assuming you want continuous scan data). A deployable jammer, like uplinks, could last throughout the entire game unless destroyed, meaning you have freed up a slot once you deploy it and switch to a different suit.
2) Active scans, being active, require you to put away your primary weapon in order to use the item, and you have to do this every time you want intel. A deployable jammer is "set it and forget it" unless it's destroyed.
3) Active scans have a cool down time. A deployable jammer does not.
4) Active scanners only benefit you and your squad. A deployable jammer would benefit anyone on your team assuming they are within an arbitrary radius. One person giving intel to one full squad =/= one person denying intel to the enemy, and doing so for your entire team (within the radius).
5) A deployable jammer passively nullifies an equipment slot for any enemy carrying a scanner of equal or lesser level (assuming it will function as you want it to). This is a very important point because we do not have anything else in the game that works this way. If the enemy has too many drop uplinks or nanohives, you have to counter them through destruction/fluxing/whatever. You can't push a button or drop equipment that renders them ineffective so long as they are within a certain radius of you.
6) A deployable jammer gives a passive buff to any teammate within its radius with no limit except the radius itself, and thereby replaces modules that must otherwise be used to achieve that buff. Do we have droppables that increase a merc's movement speed or stamina, shield regen/regulation, armor buffer, or hacking speed within a certain radius? There is only one deployable that works this way - the triage nanohive, which replaces armor repair modules. Yet look at its limitations- it has a short spherical range, requires line of sight, and only heals a finite amount of HP before it pops. Your jammer would be the equivalent of a triage hive that had a 50-100m radius (or whatever radius you choose) passively increasing armor rep by say, 5hp/sec, without requiring line of sight, and never running out unless destroyed. Sounds OP, doesn't it?
7) Imagine what the active scanner would be like if it worked like the deployable jammer you are proposing. You just have to drop it on a rooftop or inside a defensible area and any enemy with a sufficiently high scan profile would light up as soon as they entered the radius. You could swap to other suits with different equipment since you don't need to carry a handheld scanner anymore, and you wouldn't have to refresh your scan data either - it's always accurate for anyone not running dampeners. Does this sound OP to you? And yet for jammers to work like this is okay?
I'm sure someone will point out that the active scanner is a piece of equipment that replaces precision enhancers and range amplifiers, and although the scanners are powerful, they are NOT a exact replacement for these modules. Active scanning is interval based and limited by direction; passive scanning is always on. As mentioned, active scanning requires you to put away your weapon, and in instances where you do not have a scanner and someone else scanning, your intel is limited by their scan intervals as well as their scan range in relation to you. Even excluding stealthy mercs, due to its interval nature, active scanning is not 100% accurate while passive scanning is. For instance, if you scan an area right before enemies respawn in that area, they will not show up on your scan until you scan the area again. The problem with using passive scanning to replace active is that no one skills into range amplifiers/precision enhancers because they require you to sacrifice too much for too a very limited benefit.
The jammer that you are proposing, however, would work exactly like a profile dampener without any drawbacks so long as you were within its effective range. It would replace an entire module and relays its effects to the entire team, with no limitation other than radius and no way to stop it other than device destruction. This is absolutely OP.
The only jammers I could support would work exactly like triage hives - with a short radius, line of sight required, and limited dampening effect which would pop after a certain number of cycles were consumed. Alternatively they could work as active equipment like scanners - using it wipes the illumination time or dampens the profile of any merc within a radius of you by a finite dB number (if their new scan profile is under the dB of the enemy scanner, they don't show up), it has a cool down time and must be equipped to use. The effect would only last for a limited interval or would only work for the duration of a single scan. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5480
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Posted - 2013.09.26 16:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:This would be very cool to see; maybe a person could gain +5WP for every unit that is protected from a scan by the equipment.
Also, a variant that doesn't stop scanners but instead creates an area on the minimap (and overview map) which does not transmit anything. Like those movies where they put a picture of the area over the camera so it looks as if nothing's happening. Make it jam comms too. It'd be great for setting up ambushes. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1286
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Posted - 2013.09.26 16:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:This would be very cool to see; maybe a person could gain +5WP for every unit that is protected from a scan by the equipment.
Also, a variant that doesn't stop scanners but instead creates an area on the minimap (and overview map) which does not transmit anything. Like those movies where they put a picture of the area over the camera so it looks as if nothing's happening. Make it jam comms too. It'd be great for setting up ambushes. 3rd party comms FTW... |
Eyemakerwet
R 0 N 1 N
12
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Posted - 2013.09.26 16:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
@ Sana
Thats why they have a small radius. Like 30m at proto lvl. They coud affect both teams. They are also STATIONARY!!! Could limit the amont of jaming equipment by team. |
Timothy Reaper
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
421
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Posted - 2013.09.26 16:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
They could make a version that works like the active scanner; non-deployable, takes a second to activate and has a cool-down period. Once activated it keeps everything within a certian radius of the player off the map. Of course, active scanners would indicate a jamming device is present.
Edit: Derp, Sana already posted this. |
Eyemakerwet
R 0 N 1 N
12
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Posted - 2013.09.26 16:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:This would be very cool to see; maybe a person could gain +5WP for every unit that is protected from a scan by the equipment.
Also, a variant that doesn't stop scanners but instead creates an area on the minimap (and overview map) which does not transmit anything. Like those movies where they put a picture of the area over the camera so it looks as if nothing's happening. Make it jam comms too. It'd be great for setting up ambushes.
Instead of jamming comms, maybe it could jam their ability to connect with the warbarge/pilot. Disabling the ability to drop orbitals and possibly call in vehicles. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5481
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Posted - 2013.09.26 16:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Eyemakerwet wrote:Cosgar wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:This would be very cool to see; maybe a person could gain +5WP for every unit that is protected from a scan by the equipment.
Also, a variant that doesn't stop scanners but instead creates an area on the minimap (and overview map) which does not transmit anything. Like those movies where they put a picture of the area over the camera so it looks as if nothing's happening. Make it jam comms too. It'd be great for setting up ambushes. Instead of jamming comms, maybe it could jam their ability to connect with the warbarge/pilot. Disabling the ability to drop orbitals and possibly call in vehicles. Why not all the above then. Coming up with WP gains for the device would be complicated, so it should be powerful enough to warrant someone to want to use it. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
311
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Posted - 2013.09.26 17:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Rather than a deployable equipment, it should be an equipment that is part of the suit. It should also work like tank modules where once you activate it, the jammer runs for a certain amount of time and jams enemies in a certain radius, and then enters a cooldown phase.
And rather than just affecting the results of an active scanner, it should flood the enemy's radar with a bunch of false positives (like that one booster in Halo 3 (?)) |
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Eyemakerwet
R 0 N 1 N
14
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Posted - 2013.09.26 17:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Rather than a deployable equipment, it should be an equipment that is part of the suit. It should also work like tank modules where once you activate it, the jammer runs for a certain amount of time and jams enemies in a certain radius, and then enters a cooldown phase.
And rather than just affecting the results of an active scanner, it should flood the enemy's radar with a bunch of false positives (like that one booster in Halo 3 (?))
This is a great idea. Id actually prefer this. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
312
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Posted - 2013.09.26 17:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Eyemakerwet wrote:Krom Ganesh wrote:Rather than a deployable equipment, it should be an equipment that is part of the suit. It should also work like tank modules where once you activate it, the jammer runs for a certain amount of time and jams enemies in a certain radius, and then enters a cooldown phase.
And rather than just affecting the results of an active scanner, it should flood the enemy's radar with a bunch of false positives (like that one booster in Halo 3 (?)) This is a great idea. Id actually prefer this. But make it equipment instead of a mod.
That's how I intended it to be. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5482
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Posted - 2013.09.26 17:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Eyemakerwet wrote:Krom Ganesh wrote:Rather than a deployable equipment, it should be an equipment that is part of the suit. It should also work like tank modules where once you activate it, the jammer runs for a certain amount of time and jams enemies in a certain radius, and then enters a cooldown phase.
And rather than just affecting the results of an active scanner, it should flood the enemy's radar with a bunch of false positives (like that one booster in Halo 3 (?)) This is a great idea. Id actually prefer this. But make it equipment instead of a mod. That's how I intended it to be. That'd be great for a built in scout LAV module. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
312
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Posted - 2013.09.26 17:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:That'd be great for a built in scout LAV module.
Would that jammer be useful for a SLAV? I mean it isn't difficult to spot a vehicle. I guess it could be used to support a ground team in the larger outposts. |
Waruiko DUST
G I A N T EoN.
127
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Posted - 2013.09.27 21:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
I don't think adding a device to specifically hard counter is the way to go here. I think if anything is to be added it should be multipurpose. I propose an equipment or grenade that has a limited number of uses, but would both be useful in general and provide a counter to radar and sighting in general, but over a very localized area for a very limited time.
I propose a chaff/em blast that shuts down all HUD functions for those hit for a limited period of time. I'll say base 10 seconds pending a proper analysis. I'm also not just talking radar here, but all of your HUD. Health, radar, cross hairs, health bars of the people you're shooting at, and friend or foe chevrons all turned off. The hows of the delivery system can be worked out later, but a single burst that flags players as having no HUD for the duration would likely be simpler to program in then localizing the effect to an area.
This lets people counter scanners up close because if the people you're fighting are on top of you it doesn't matter if you're scanned or not because they can't use their radar, but if they're at range then they can still figure out your position. This lets the user fight the scanner without making the scanner useless because you would still be scanned, but the people your fighting couldn't make good use of that information.
Most importantly when adding any new weapon or equipment it adds new tactics to the battle on its own merits. Even if no one is using the scanner a weapon like this would be great for opening an ambush. With no HUD getting the drop on them would be easier because they wouldn't be getting direction markers letting them know which direction its coming from. In PC a well timed use could have a group of targets firing into each other because they can't tell friend from foe. In FW or PC it can cause the undisciplined to hesitate in a fight for fear of wasting ammo or harming friends.
Finally when it comes to answering the question of what can counter this we already have an answer to that. Discipline among squad mates and fire discipline in general can greatly mitigate the offensive uses of such a device and that's a counter that relies on the character of the player rather then SP or suit cost. |
Eyemakerwet
R 0 N 1 N
19
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Posted - 2013.09.27 21:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Waruiko DUST wrote:I don't think adding a device to specifically hard counter is the way to go here. I think if anything is to be added it should be multipurpose. I propose an equipment or grenade that has a limited number of uses, but would both be useful in general and provide a counter to radar and sighting in general, but over a very localized area for a very limited time.
I propose a chaff/em blast that shuts down all HUD functions for those hit for a limited period of time. I'll say base 10 seconds pending a proper analysis. I'm also not just talking radar here, but all of your HUD. Health, radar, cross hairs, health bars of the people you're shooting at, and friend or foe chevrons all turned off. The hows of the delivery system can be worked out later, but a single burst that flags players as having no HUD for the duration would likely be simpler to program in then localizing the effect to an area.
This lets people counter scanners up close because if the people you're fighting are on top of you it doesn't matter if you're scanned or not because they can't use their radar, but if they're at range then they can still figure out your position. This lets the user fight the scanner without making the scanner useless because you would still be scanned, but the people your fighting couldn't make good use of that information.
Most importantly when adding any new weapon or equipment it adds new tactics to the battle on its own merits. Even if no one is using the scanner a weapon like this would be great for opening an ambush. With no HUD getting the drop on them would be easier because they wouldn't be getting direction markers letting them know which direction its coming from. In PC a well timed use could have a group of targets firing into each other because they can't tell friend from foe. In FW or PC it can cause the undisciplined to hesitate in a fight for fear of wasting ammo or harming friends.
Finally when it comes to answering the question of what can counter this we already have an answer to that. Discipline among squad mates and fire discipline in general can greatly mitigate the offensive uses of such a device and that's a counter that relies on the character of the player rather then SP or suit cost.
this would be a very interesting tool on the battlefield.
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Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
337
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Posted - 2013.09.28 00:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
+1 This is a great idea, can we have warp jammers too kidding really. |
low genius
the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance
501
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Posted - 2013.09.28 00:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
wouldn't profile dampening do the same thing? |
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