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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
727
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Posted - 2013.09.25 16:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Mossellia Delt wrote:I think this is an awful Idea as a scout
looks like we would once again get the short end of the stick. Dang dude!?! Why so pessimistic? Suggest something!! Don't JUST be critical? Have a little bit of imagination and contribute to the discussion. Where do YOU think the scout role fits in? I gave it a huge headshot buff. Who knows what other bonuses they are getting come 1.5. What if you could give bonuses for kills >100m that would be a sniper WP buff... Do you seriously think scouts should be AS survivable as assaults/heavies/logis in brawling range, though? That's dumb if you do. I'm suggesting different roles for them. Making them get the BEST SP from uplinks and scans and assists could do a lot to boost their WP gain. I can get a LOT of WP from uplink spam. Also in 1.5 I think they are giving out WP for equipment destruction as well. If everyone got something like +10 WP for equipment destruction and scouts got +20, that would be huge too. IMO this is what is kind of ruining the game. When everyone wants every suit to be usable for every role. "My heavy is just too slow...my scout is just too weak...the logi has too many equipment slots...the assault should have as many slots as the logi...I can't armor tank my minmatar suit..." are all arguing for a vanilla game. Headshot buff? well great! that makes, nova knives, plasma cannons, mass drivers, flaylocks, shotguns (since you want to aim for the chest), unable to get extra points. Scouts should be CQC speed tankers not this pansy sniper or recon crap. and if you think scouts shouldnt be in brawling range, then please PLEASE look towards minimatar scouts WHOS PASSIVE is based around being 1 meter from those other enemies. also good job on thinking scouts should run uplinks or scanners which when at prototype level have such a great CPU/PG usage that they make the scouts fitting unable to fit anything else decently. I repeat, once again, scouts should be speed tankers like they have been EVERY OTHER BUILD prior to 1.4. Edit: I can usually get around 1500 - 2800 WPs currently using a scout WITHOUT uplinks, because uplinks are a waste of CPU/PG
I'm sorry Mosselia but I disagree with this statement "Scouts should be CQC speed tankers not this pansy sniper or recon crap."
Why shouldn't a scout suit be a recon scout? You believe a scout is meant to be a brawler suit, why? If you prefer we can discuss this on a new thread, but this something that is highly debatable! |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
727
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 16:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Mossellia Delt wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Mossellia Delt wrote:I think this is an awful Idea as a scout
looks like we would once again get the short end of the stick. Dang dude!?! Why so pessimistic? Suggest something!! Don't JUST be critical? Have a little bit of imagination and contribute to the discussion. Where do YOU think the scout role fits in? I gave it a huge headshot buff. Who knows what other bonuses they are getting come 1.5. What if you could give bonuses for kills >100m that would be a sniper WP buff... Do you seriously think scouts should be AS survivable as assaults/heavies/logis in brawling range, though? That's dumb if you do. I'm suggesting different roles for them. Making them get the BEST SP from uplinks and scans and assists could do a lot to boost their WP gain. I can get a LOT of WP from uplink spam. Also in 1.5 I think they are giving out WP for equipment destruction as well. If everyone got something like +10 WP for equipment destruction and scouts got +20, that would be huge too. IMO this is what is kind of ruining the game. When everyone wants every suit to be usable for every role. "My heavy is just too slow...my scout is just too weak...the logi has too many equipment slots...the assault should have as many slots as the logi...I can't armor tank my minmatar suit..." are all arguing for a vanilla game. Headshot buff? well great! that makes, nova knives, plasma cannons, mass drivers, flaylocks, shotguns (since you want to aim for the chest), unable to get extra points. Scouts should be CQC speed tankers not this pansy sniper or recon crap. and if you think scouts shouldnt be in brawling range, then please PLEASE look towards minimatar scouts WHOS PASSIVE is based around being 1 meter from those other enemies. also good job on thinking scouts should run uplinks or scanners which when at prototype level have such a great CPU/PG usage that they make the scouts fitting unable to fit anything else decently. I repeat, once again, scouts should be speed tankers like they have been EVERY OTHER BUILD prior to 1.4. Edit: I can usually get around 1500 - 2800 WPs currently using a scout WITHOUT uplinks, because uplinks are a waste of CPU/PG I'm sorry Mosselia but I disagree with this statement "Scouts should be CQC speed tankers not this pansy sniper or recon crap." Why shouldn't a scout suit be a recon scout? You believe a scout is meant to be a brawler suit, why? If you prefer we can discuss this on a new thread, but this something that is highly debatable! Well just looking at the minimatar suit alone, the skill is enough reason. CCP made the (both types) scout in every single patch / build before 1.4 a speed tanker who gets in and out and hurts. Suddenly 1.4 comes around at 2.7 mil SP in the suit alone is useless for what I and many many other skilled into it for.
Well you see thats the thing, if you basing your argument on the mini suit bonus, I could go as far as to say based on gallante suit bonuses the gallante is perfect for sneaking around and keeping out of sight.
The nova knives allow you to pick off clueless enemies, that doesn't make it a cqc god, it makes it master of suprise. Also why is the suit speacilization bonus a reduction to scan profile? Why is the cloaking module we may be getting supposed to be scout only?
why are scouts so good at sneaking if they aren't mean for sneaking, and using there sneakiness for the benifit of the squad? |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
727
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 16:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Well you see thats the thing, if you basing your argument on the mini suit bonus, I could go as far as to say based on gallante suit bonuses the gallante is perfect for sneaking around and keeping out of sight.
The nova knives allow you to pick off clueless enemies, that doesn't make it a cqc god, it makes it master of suprise. Also why is the suit speacilization bonus a reduction to scan profile? Why is the cloaking module we may be getting supposed to be scout only?
why are scouts so good at sneaking if they aren't mean for sneaking, and using there sneakiness for the benifit of the squad?
They're good at sneaking? Oh .. you dont say ? Thats why even maxed out in skills a proto gallenete scout cant beat a single piece of equipment (the proto Active scanner). and speculating about something that doesnt have a date and is suppost to be what balances the scout is bull **** in the mean time and means nothing.
Emphasis on Proto, the scanner you are refering to specifically comes with a 12db prescision. But it also happens to come with a low pulse time, low FOV and high recharge. You would only use this for catching scouts specifically.
Every other scanner can be avoided with a proto suit and 1 proto dampener giving just 18db precision. As for the cloak, im just using it to clarify a point, butmthats fine remove it from the arguement.
The scouts low profile is only defeated by scanners of the same tier, and only by a scout finding scanner if the scout equips a single dampner. I would say that is pretty sneaky. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
727
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 16:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Skihids wrote:WP's should be awarded for what you DO, not what you do it WITH.
Certain suits should be better at certain actions and that is the reason to chose them, but if you manage to do the same action as someone in another suit you should get the same reward.
Anything else is job discrimination. This is admittedly probably the closest thing to a well articulated counter-argument to my proposed change, so props to you. However, in that context, it seems that the game starts to boil down to, 'how do you farm WP in the greatest way'? The answer then is, play caldari/minamatar logi and farm WP. While my proposed solution doesn't completely avoid that, it at least attempts to eliminate what has become a WP superiority that logistics suits provide. Logis can currently get a steady stream of income indirectly from their equipemnt slots, while also having the best tank and a good bit of PG/CPu left over for great weapon DPS, while basically only having to sacrifice some speed and shield regen for the most part. So while tieing WP's and suit type to role performance you may be able to accuse that system as a type of 'job descrimination' (negatively) or 'affirmative action' (positively) you could turn the argument around and say you are pretty much guilty of 'classism or racism' for creating a system where people CAN'T get maximum WP unless they picked the best race/class right from the start. The best way to address the issue is with the suit bonus like CCP is planning to do. They want to give equipment bonuses to the Logi suit, but can't until they do some base coding changes first. That will make it easier to perform logistical function sin the suit without making it easier to be an assault player. That fixes the issue right at the root cause so you don't have to try some tax break incentive after the fact to adjust behavior.
They are having trouble with the getter and setter commands on the suit objects, whoever coded the object for suits way way way back when decided suits would only need to bonuses 1 racial, 1 specilization
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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
727
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 17:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Emphasis on Proto, the scanner you are refering to specifically comes with a 12db prescision. But it also happens to come with a low pulse time, low FOV and high recharge. You would only use this for catching scouts specifically.
Every other scanner can be avoided with a proto suit and 1 proto dampener giving just 18db precision. As for the cloak, im just using it to clarify a point, butmthats fine remove it from the arguement.
The scouts low profile is only defeated by scanners of the same tier, and only by a scout finding scanner if the scout equips a single dampner. I would say that is pretty sneaky.
Sneaky enough for PC use? Nope.... and PC is what the game should be balanced on, not pubs.
No it should be balanced on all match types. The reason scouts aren't sneaky enough on PC is because of old maps having poor design! Not because scouts aren't sneaky enough!
If you take the long route, which is more viable as a scout due to its speed, you can do thimgs like place uplinks behind enemy lines for flankimg, you can capture enemy installations without being detected. You can disable a pilot who has called in a tank (not in the redline, thats a whole different ball game).
Why use a scout, when a mini assault, with some kincats is almost as fast has more health and can even reach the same scan profile? If an assault suit can fill that role better than the light suit, maybe it isn't the light suits role! |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
728
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 17:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Mossellia Delt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Emphasis on Proto, the scanner you are refering to specifically comes with a 12db prescision. But it also happens to come with a low pulse time, low FOV and high recharge. You would only use this for catching scouts specifically.
Every other scanner can be avoided with a proto suit and 1 proto dampener giving just 18db precision. As for the cloak, im just using it to clarify a point, butmthats fine remove it from the arguement.
The scouts low profile is only defeated by scanners of the same tier, and only by a scout finding scanner if the scout equips a single dampner. I would say that is pretty sneaky.
Sneaky enough for PC use? Nope.... and PC is what the game should be balanced on, not pubs. No it should be balanced on all match types. The reason scouts aren't sneaky enough on PC is because of old maps having poor design! Not because scouts aren't sneaky enough! If you take the long route, which is more viable as a scout due to its speed, you can do thimgs like place uplinks behind enemy lines for flankimg, you can capture enemy installations without being detected. You can disable a pilot who has called in a tank (not in the redline, thats a whole different ball game). Why use a scout, when a mini assault, with some kincats is almost as fast has more health and can even reach the same scan profile? If an assault suit can fill that role better than the light suit, maybe it isn't the light suits role! If you dont think the game should be balanced around actual team play (Which only happens in PC as of right now) then Im sorry but theres no point in talking to you about balance in this game at all.
Did I say it shouldn't be balanced on team play? I think that infering team play only happens in PC is a misconception. If you think PC is the pinnacle of teamplay you are also following a misconception. I have participated in PC and found numerous times that all the enemy does is charge! Unfortunately PC isn't as elite as you might think, nor is it meant to be the endgame to dust!
If you don't think that then yes, we should go our seperate ways because there is no point talking to you about balance in this game at all!
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