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Muud Kipz
Elevated Technologies
63
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 06:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've reposted the following from the Feedback/Requests forum, because I believe that it deserves to be brought to the attention of the general community. The original thread is here: Scanner leading to a kill
CCP Wolfman wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote: Scan Assisted kills by your squad will net you 15 glorious WP
Garth Mandra wrote: What if multiple people have an enemy scanned when he's killed? What if someone that isn't in your squad kills the red? Do you still get the points even though he didn't benefit from the scan? What about kill assists from squad members? (assuming non-squad kills don't generate points)
Depending on the details I can easily see random blues just scanning non stop just to get those points.
Okey dokey... Currently if multiple people scan an enemy they will all get the assist for the kill. Only kills from squad mates will net you WP. Kill assists from squad members will not net you any WP.
Only kills done by squad mates will reward me with scanner WP?
That's gross, and I can't find a single reason to justify it. My active scanner information gets sent to the entire team, and assists all of them in playing better. While not getting WP will obviously not stop me from scanning, as I have been since 1.2, this is a terrible way to implement the reward system. It will provide the most WP rewards to a proto-stomping squad, where a scanner can be reasonably confident that their squad will shred through every target scanned. To the flanking lone wolf, who scans endlessly regardless of WP but does not play in a squad, this will provide ZERO WP, despite the fact that EVERY other player in the game will benefit from this unsquadded player's scanning.
If it's necessary to appeal to the Assault QQ Gods, drop the scan reward to 5WP. If you're really committed to rewarding squad mates more than others, make it 15 for squad members and 5 for non-squad. Heck, drop it to 5 for squad members and 2 for non, I don't care. Either way, it's ridiculous to reward WP so preferentially to those who have a dedicated team of proto slayers to work with. Increased kill/assist counts already reward squad coordination, not to mention squad order bonuses, so there's no need to restrict scanner rewards to try to encourage squad play.
In any case, rewarding only scanners who can find a competent squad to kill their scanned targets is absurd, and a finger in the eye to anyone not in a top-tier corporation.
Additionally, this mechanic will encourage kill-stealing between squads, as they try to maximize their scanner rewards for more orbitals. This sort of disunity within a team will be damaging to the Dust 514 public contract experience. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
3914
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 06:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOGMOGMOGMOGMGOMGOMGOGMOMG |
Mregomies
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
31
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Posted - 2013.09.25 07:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
I feel a tingling in my quantum active Scanner! |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
3779
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Uh oh, CCP is rewarding teamwork guys. Quick, flood the forums in tears and rage! |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2226
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hopefully CCP makes it obvious that it only applies to squads so people who don't read the forums will know right away, and then hopefully that encourages more people to join squads. |
Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
598
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well it stops you from standing in a corner, spin scanning and raking in tonnes of WP for zero effort.
Oh look, justification - wasn't so hard was it? |
Mregomies
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
31
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Well... think about it... you scan to mark reds and squadleader drops the OB :) lots of WP raining over there! |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
1113
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Muud Kipz wrote: It will provide the most WP rewards to a proto-stomping squad, where a scanner can be reasonably confident that their squad will shred through every target scanned. To the flanking lone wolf, who scans endlessly regardless of WP but does not play in a squad, this will provide ZERO WP
You've just described Nanohives, Repair Tools and Nanoinjectors though in how they work and reward... I think everything favors a "pub-stomping team" like it should, as teamwork is cool and stuff.
Just my opinion though. |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
1782
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:Well it stops you from standing in a corner, spin scanning and raking in tonnes of WP for zero effort.
Oh look, justification - wasn't so hard was it?
Well if someone in my squad was just spinning in circles doing nothing they wouldn't be in my squad for too long. |
Muud Kipz
Elevated Technologies
63
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Muud Kipz wrote: It will provide the most WP rewards to a proto-stomping squad, where a scanner can be reasonably confident that their squad will shred through every target scanned. To the flanking lone wolf, who scans endlessly regardless of WP but does not play in a squad, this will provide ZERO WP You've just described Nanohives and nanoinjectors though in how they work and reward... I think everything favors a "pub-stomping team" like it should, as teamwork is cool and stuff. Just my opinion though.
There's a difference though, nanohives and nanoinjectors can also be used by those not in a particular squad, to help them. Since they helped, they get WP. I support teamwork too, but I think teamwork should refer to the entire 16-man team, not just the 6-man squad unit. My point is that someone who not part of a particular squad, who scans enemies and assists said squad in killing them, should be rewarded for the scan regardless of whether or not they are in that squad. Squads shouldn't have to fight between each other for which squad gets scan WP. |
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Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
1782
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Muud Kipz wrote: It will provide the most WP rewards to a proto-stomping squad, where a scanner can be reasonably confident that their squad will shred through every target scanned. To the flanking lone wolf, who scans endlessly regardless of WP but does not play in a squad, this will provide ZERO WP You've just described Nanohives and nanoinjectors though in how they work and reward... I think everything favors a "pub-stomping team" like it should, as teamwork is cool and stuff. Just my opinion though.
I can get 1000 WP from uplinks or hives per game while going 0/20.
But we were told MCRU's in dropships couldn't get WP for the last couple years because it "might be exploited".
riiight.
scanning WP is fine, at least unlike uplinks and injectors they don't hurt your team |
dustwaffle
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
575
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nice! But yeah, no WP if you're solo is kinda sucky. |
Aaroniero d'Lioncourt
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
109
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:Well it stops you from standing in a corner, spin scanning and raking in tonnes of WP for zero effort.
Oh look, justification - wasn't so hard was it?
Does spinning and scanning actually work? I tried that but only the front gets scanned to where i was aiming to.... |
Muud Kipz
Elevated Technologies
63
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:Well it stops you from standing in a corner, spin scanning and raking in tonnes of WP for zero effort.
Oh look, justification - wasn't so hard was it?
That doesn't justify the squad-specific restriction.
I agree that abuse by people who like to spend their time doing boring things (scanning without ever fighting) may occur, but I really don't care. If they're really committed to just farming WPs instead of enjoying the game, that's fine with me. Plus, personally, I would love to replace some random MLT AR blueberry with someone who just spin-scans for me all the time. That would be very useful to me, and I would support rewarding that person for the useful information they provide.
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Unit-775
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Muud Kipz wrote:To the flanking lone wolf, who scans endlessly regardless of WP but does not play in a squad, this will provide ZERO WP, despite the fact that EVERY other player in the game will benefit from this unsquadded player's scanning
You dont hav a a clue about scanner mechanics so please dont post whine threads. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1421
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
The more teamwork is pushed the more I'll have to resist the concept on general principles. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1219
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
like I said...all for the wrong reasons. Just help your squadmates and scan. |
Muud Kipz
Elevated Technologies
63
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Unit-775 wrote:Muud Kipz wrote:To the flanking lone wolf, who scans endlessly regardless of WP but does not play in a squad, this will provide ZERO WP, despite the fact that EVERY other player in the game will benefit from this unsquadded player's scanning You dont hav a a clue about scanner mechanics so please dont post whine threads.
ORLY?
CCP Logibro wrote:Hey guys, here are the patch notes. Uprising 1.4 Patch Notes:
* Shared passive scanner vision for squads disabled (results of active scanners are still shared with squads)
|
Silas Swakhammer
GamersForChrist Orion Empire
205
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Um, only your squad can see your active scanner results, right? If so, the WP per actively scanned kill squad restriction makes perfect sense.
Besides, this is a push for squad based teamwork and guess what? This is a social squad shooter. |
Rains Akkadian
Cannonfodder PMC
31
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Scanned enemies are only visible to your squad, so it makes sense that only kills by your squad net you scanning WP. If you are lone wolf then you are the only person who benefits from your scanning and shouldn't get additional WP when other people kill your target because you have done nothing to help them.
The active scanner is a tool that benefits your squad.. long may that be the case. |
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pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1033
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Someone should tell the op that his scan results are restricted to his squad only. |
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
898
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Muud Kipz wrote:I've reposted the following from the Feedback/Requests forum, because I believe that it deserves to be brought to the attention of the general community. The original thread is here: Scanner leading to a killCCP Wolfman wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote: Scan Assisted kills by your squad will net you 15 glorious WP
Garth Mandra wrote: What if multiple people have an enemy scanned when he's killed? What if someone that isn't in your squad kills the red? Do you still get the points even though he didn't benefit from the scan? What about kill assists from squad members? (assuming non-squad kills don't generate points)
Depending on the details I can easily see random blues just scanning non stop just to get those points.
Okey dokey... Currently if multiple people scan an enemy they will all get the assist for the kill. Only kills from squad mates will net you WP. Kill assists from squad members will not net you any WP. Only kills done by squad mates will reward me with scanner WP? That's gross, and I can't find a single reason to justify it. My active scanner information gets sent to the entire team, and assists all of them in playing better. While not getting WP will obviously not stop me from scanning, as I have been since 1.2, this is a terrible way to implement the reward system. It will provide the most WP rewards to a proto-stomping squad, where a scanner can be reasonably confident that their squad will shred through every target scanned. To the flanking lone wolf, who scans endlessly regardless of WP but does not play in a squad, this will provide ZERO WP, despite the fact that EVERY other player in the game will benefit from this unsquadded player's scanning. If it's necessary to appeal to the Assault QQ Gods, drop the scan reward to 5WP. If you're really committed to rewarding squad mates more than others, make it 15 for squad members and 5 for non-squad. Heck, drop it to 5 for squad members and 2 for non, I don't care. Either way, it's ridiculous to reward WP so preferentially to those who have a dedicated team of proto slayers to work with. Increased kill/assist counts already reward squad coordination, not to mention squad order bonuses, so there's no need to restrict scanner rewards to try to encourage squad play. In any case, rewarding only scanners who can find a competent squad to kill their scanned targets is absurd, and a finger in the eye to anyone not in a top-tier corporation. Additionally, this mechanic will encourage kill-stealing between squads, as they try to maximize their scanner rewards for more orbitals. This sort of disunity within a team will be damaging to the Dust 514 public contract experience. Why do you want it balanced for pub matches? Those don't matter. |
Mregomies
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
32
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
and if you are lonewolf the scan result is only for your safety because you,most likely, are scout/sniper. If you are assault/logi/hevy you should join squad in begining of battle, even though those mercs isn't your corp/friends... |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
77
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:Someone should tell the op that his scan results are restricted to his squad only.
OP - scan results are restricted to your squad only. |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder.
415
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
No problem for me, I'll only use scans in my squad suit. |
Muud Kipz
Elevated Technologies
63
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:Someone should tell the op that his scan results are restricted to his squad only.
Really? I was sure that I'd received scan data from others despite not being in a squad in the best. If scan data really is restricted to squads only, that's pretty lame, though I will concede then that the squad restriction for scanning WP makes perfect sense. My bad.
@Spkr4thedead: Yes, they do matter. A significant proportion of the Dust player base, myself included, is not involved in PC battles due to time and laziness constraints. While balancing for PC should be a priority, it is not the only thing that matters. |
pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1033
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
Any data on your radar that you see when not in squad is from your oassive scanning on your suit or someone haopend to cross your los then they show but other than that acctive scanners are squad exclusive and dont feed intell to anyone else. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1422
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Why do you want it balanced for pub matches? Those don't matter.
Where do you think player retention starts? |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1219
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mregomies wrote:and if you are lonewolf the scan result is only for your safety because you,most likely, are scout/sniper. If you are assault/logi/hevy you should join squad in begining of battle, even though those mercs isn't your corp/friends...
I rather go solo. Blueberries are still blueberries even if their color turns green. On rare occasions do I join a real good squad that is teamwork oriented. Most of the time its just blueberries assembled to get a Precision |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
78
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
Although....it would be good if assists all within your squad gave you the points. |
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Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
1783
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:58:00 -
[31] - Quote
So when abouts is this 1.5? |
pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1033
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 08:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
I have played pc and sometimes merc out for some mates on the whole I dont think pc is worth the hassle at the moment and comes with its verry own issues kike frame rate droos and lag. Now the problem with balancing any wepon by its pubgame stats is bad because when it comes down to it pc is the end game of dust and anything that has been balanced for pub games will be greatly overpowered and anything balanced solely on oc stats will be greatly up in pubs. So CCP has to find the middleground. The reason scanners are dquaf exclusive is to encourage both their use by every squad but also to encourage vocal communication between squads. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1219
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 08:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
if you just picking up a scanner for WPs, you're doing it wrong |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
714
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 08:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
Uhm, active scanner broadcasts to your squad only. (If you are not in a squad, it broadcasts to other squadless mercs)
Warpoints for scanned kills will only be given if the merc is in your squad! If you are squadless you will not get WP for a scanned kill from anyother merc. (I think)
You will not get additional warpoints for scanning and killing a targer solo (I think)
How this effects game play. Forces scanner scouts to squad up Stops entire teams purposefully going squadless to benifit from scanners (Scanner guy won't be happy unless he gets a salary) Enciurages more use of squads and tactical play.
However 16 people is only enough for 2 squads and 4 left over. This is a negative for a 4 man squad because they don't have the man power to spare. This creates an impasse for the 4 men, as they have a choice of running at half capacity or running squadless roles, such as sniper or pilot.
Dependent on the way the community reacts this could be the icing on the cake for tactical play! |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
979
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 11:21:00 -
[35] - Quote
Muud Kipz wrote:I've reposted the following from the Feedback/Requests forum, because I believe that it deserves to be brought to the attention of the general community. The original thread is here: Scanner leading to a killCCP Wolfman wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote: Scan Assisted kills by your squad will net you 15 glorious WP
Garth Mandra wrote: What if multiple people have an enemy scanned when he's killed? What if someone that isn't in your squad kills the red? Do you still get the points even though he didn't benefit from the scan? What about kill assists from squad members? (assuming non-squad kills don't generate points)
Depending on the details I can easily see random blues just scanning non stop just to get those points.
Okey dokey... Currently if multiple people scan an enemy they will all get the assist for the kill. Only kills from squad mates will net you WP. Kill assists from squad members will not net you any WP. Only kills done by squad mates will reward me with scanner WP? That's gross, and I can't find a single reason to justify it. My active scanner information gets sent to the entire team, and assists all of them in playing better. While not getting WP will obviously not stop me from scanning, as I have been since 1.2, this is a terrible way to implement the reward system. It will provide the most WP rewards to a proto-stomping squad, where a scanner can be reasonably confident that their squad will shred through every target scanned. To the flanking lone wolf, who scans endlessly regardless of WP but does not play in a squad, this will provide ZERO WP, despite the fact that EVERY other player in the game will benefit from this unsquadded player's scanning. If it's necessary to appeal to the Assault QQ Gods, drop the scan reward to 5WP. If you're really committed to rewarding squad mates more than others, make it 15 for squad members and 5 for non-squad. Heck, drop it to 5 for squad members and 2 for non, I don't care. Either way, it's ridiculous to reward WP so preferentially to those who have a dedicated team of proto slayers to work with. Increased kill/assist counts already reward squad coordination, not to mention squad order bonuses, so there's no need to restrict scanner rewards to try to encourage squad play. In any case, rewarding only scanners who can find a competent squad to kill their scanned targets is absurd, and a finger in the eye to anyone not in a top-tier corporation. Additionally, this mechanic will encourage kill-stealing between squads, as they try to maximize their scanner rewards for more orbitals. This sort of disunity within a team will be damaging to the Dust 514 public contract experience.
dude. its not a big deal. People wanted WP rewards and so there getting them now. The reason it doesn't count for the team is probably to prevent people from herp derping around the map only ever scanning and farming WP. I mean..... imagine if you had 6 random blueberries just derping around constantly pinging? It would be cool to know where the enemy is sure, but it would leave your team outgunned. I think the decision to leave it in squads was a good idea. It promotes squad play (which will be bigger in 1.5 with the new squad finder being added), and doesn't leave a whole lot of room to exploit the new feature. Not to mention...... im almost positive scanners are only effective for the members in your squad and not the team because we did some basic testing in a corp match using several scanners. Idk..... maybe that's just me though. |
pseudosnipre
DUST University Ivy League
254
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 18:46:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mregomies wrote:I feel a tingling in my quantum active Scanner! For the graybushes out there:
Your active scanner is glowing with a faint blue glow. You hear someone counting warpoints. |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1802
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 18:59:00 -
[37] - Quote
deleted |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1802
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 19:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Muud Kipz wrote:pegasis prime wrote:Someone should tell the op that his scan results are restricted to his squad only. Really? I was sure that I'd received scan data from others despite not being in a squad in the best. If scan data really is restricted to squads only, that's pretty lame, though I will concede then that the squad restriction for scanning WP makes perfect sense. My bad. @Spkr4thedead: Yes, they do matter. A significant proportion of the Dust player base, myself included, is not involved in PC battles due to time and laziness constraints. While balancing for PC should be a priority, it is not the only thing that matters.
I also confirm, I never get hits from other scanners unless they are in my squad. Your OP is incorrect. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1431
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 19:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:So when abouts is this 1.5?
October probably sometime before mid-month. |
Canari Elphus
Pro Hic Immortalis
464
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 19:19:00 -
[40] - Quote
I cannot confirm this right now but I believe you can see scanner results if you are unsquaded and the toon scanning is as well. I think I remember seeing scan results (the glowing reds etc) when I was running solo. |
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