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        |  Sinboto Simmons
 SVER True Blood
 Public Disorder.
 
 1267
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 04:07:00 -
          [1] - Quote 
 Ok so any player that's been around from the closed beta knows that there has been a massive change in the game, this is of course expected no game runs for over a year and doesn't change, however the problem comes in when the nerfbat started busting balls. To make the game easier for new players to join and compete there were changes made to higher level gear such as:
 
 Base HP is no longer increased by suit tier.
 
 Many weapon's damage were brought closer together from STD-ADV-PRO levels.
 
 While I disagree with these changes I can see why it was done, however this thread isn't for complaining about that no matter how much I dislike them.
 
 Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly, tankers using PRO mods on your fits you know what I mean, the PRO versions of said gear only giving slight advantages when it comes to gear most noticeably on many weapons baring a few exceptions with damage mods being the only way to secure a respectable gap in power, the mass driver is a prime example.
 
 Despite the very small advantage many of these things have a rather large price tag, a price that is not warranted by the small jump in effectiveness, concerning the future of dust/eve interaction if this continues why would a pilot waste isk on a merc team in PRO gear when another merc team could do their job just as effectively in a less costly STD fit?
 
 Because of this I'm requesting the prices on STD-ADV-PRO gear be brought closer together or more to the point for PRO gear to be lowed in price to be closer to ADV level gear; the minor jump in effectiveness of these items just don't justify the massive cost.
 
 
 
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        |  jerrmy12 kahoalii
 Onslaught Inc
 RISE of LEGION
 
 8
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 04:19:00 -
          [2] - Quote 
 
 Sinboto Simmons wrote:Ok so any player that's been around from the closed beta knows that there has been a massive change in the game, this is of course expected no game runs for over a year and doesn't change, however the problem comes in when the nerfbat started busting balls. To make the game easier for new players to join and compete there were changes made to higher level gear such as:
 Base HP is no longer increased by suit tier.
 
 Many weapon's damage were brought closer together from STD-ADV-PRO levels.
 
 While I disagree with these changes I can see why it was done, however this thread isn't for complaining about that no matter how much I dislike them.
 
 Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly, tankers using PRO mods on your fits you know what
 true, so true, or make suits get hp per level
 57k for 1 suit, 400k for a pro turret
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        |  Piraten Hovnoret
 No Tax Scrubs
 
 101
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 06:46:00 -
          [3] - Quote 
 
 Sinboto Simmons wrote:Ok so any player that's been around from the closed beta knows that there has been a massive change in the game, this is of course expected no game runs for over a year and doesn't change, however the problem comes in when the nerfbat started busting balls. To make the game easier for new players to join and compete there were changes made to higher level gear such as:
 Base HP is no longer increased by suit tier.
 
 Many weapon's damage were brought closer together from STD-ADV-PRO levels.
 
 While I disagree with these changes I can see why it was done, however this thread isn't for complaining about that no matter how much I dislike them.
 
 Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly, tankers using PRO mods on your fits you know what I mean, the PRO versions of said gear only giving slight advantages when it comes to gear most noticeably on many weapons baring a few exceptions with damage mods being the only way to secure a respectable gap in power, the mass driver is a prime example.
 
 Despite the very small advantage many of these things have a rather large price tag, a price that is not warranted by the small jump in effectiveness, concerning the future of dust/eve interaction if this continues why would a pilot waste isk on a merc team in PRO gear when another merc team could do their job just as effectively in a less costly STD fit?
 
 Because of this I'm requesting the prices on STD-ADV-PRO gear be brought closer together or more to the point for PRO gear to be lowed in price to be closer to ADV level gear; the minor jump in effectiveness of these items just don't justify the massive cost.
 
 
 
 
 I totally agre with you. Will add one thing to it if IF pro gear gets a bump it also should get a increase cost in isk. The proto stomp problem in bub matches is a problem 4 the new players that comes into the game.
 
 There is many in the game ( me included ) that will never get a chance to do PC. For me the game need a "easy" mode where proto stomping is banned or wery wery expensive to use.
 
 I go full proto in pub when there is proto stompers on the other side, or when I notice that both sides starts 2 use it.
 
 So what am I saying realy dam I am al over the.
  
 1 increase the base stats of proto gear
 2 increase the cost of proto gear
 3 increase pay out in PC
 4 get PvE going ( that's the easy mode)
 
 Regards
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        |  deepfried salad gilliam
 Sanguine Knights
 
 1
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 10:59:00 -
          [4] - Quote 
 Disagree, small advantages go far in war living with 30 hp left is still alive to regen and repeat
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        |  ladwar
 Dead Six Initiative
 Lokun Listamenn
 
 1686
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 11:03:00 -
          [5] - Quote 
 
 jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Sinboto Simmons wrote:Ok so any player that's been around from the closed beta knows that there has been a massive change in the game, this is of course expected no game runs for over a year and doesn't change, however the problem comes in when the nerfbat started busting balls. To make the game easier for new players to join and compete there were changes made to higher level gear such as:
 Base HP is no longer increased by suit tier.
 
 Many weapon's damage were brought closer together from STD-ADV-PRO levels.
 
 While I disagree with these changes I can see why it was done, however this thread isn't for complaining about that no matter how much I dislike them.
 
 Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly, tankers using PRO mods on your fits you know what
 true, so true, or make suits get hp per level  57k for 1 suit, 400k for a pro turret pro turrets cost more than that and can cost 900k~
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        |  pegasis prime
 BIG BAD W0LVES
 
 1016
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 11:10:00 -
          [6] - Quote 
 Proto infantry equipment got a price reduction at tge start of uprising and the only proto equipment that vehicles can purchase was raised in price and had their dammage reduced while the infantry proto equipment was buffed.
 
 My proto heavy vk0 or vk1 with complex mods and proto forge proto ishicone assault smg set up used to cost just over 1 mill isk .
 I fo think proto equipment should return to chromasome prices as it acctually deterd proto stomoing becuase of the potential loss of even 1 suit acctually mattered.
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        |  jerrmy12 kahoalii
 Onslaught Inc
 RISE of LEGION
 
 9
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 11:18:00 -
          [7] - Quote 
 
 ladwar wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:[quote=Sinboto Simmons]Ok so any player that's been around from the closed beta knows that there has been a massive change in the game, this is of course expected no game runs for over a year and doesn't change, however the problem comes in when the nerfbat started busting balls. To make the game easier for new players to join and compete there were changes made to higher level gear such as:
 Base HP is no longer increased by suit tier.
 
 Many weapon's damage were brought closer together from STD-ADV-PRO levels.
 
 While I disagree with these changes I can see why it was done, however this thread isn't for complaining about that no matter how much I dislike them.
 
 Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly, tankers using PRO mods on your fits you know what
 true, so true, or make suits get hp per level  57k for 1 suit, 400k for a pro turret too expensive, buy tanks with 900k
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        |  Cyzad4
 Blackfish Corp.
 
 23
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 12:52:00 -
          [8] - Quote 
 pretty much why I don't bother running proto anything, I mean
 
 basic SR - 209 damage - 1200 isk
 Ishukone SR - 229 damage - 27,000 isk
 
 prices are a bit off i think but theyre around there anyway, and assuming vehicles prices are even more inflated.
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        |  Piraten Hovnoret
 No Tax Scrubs
 
 103
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 15:45:00 -
          [9] - Quote 
 
 pegasis prime wrote:Proto infantry equipment got a price reduction at tge start of uprising and the only proto equipment that vehicles can purchase was raised in price and had their dammage reduced while the infantry proto equipment was buffed. 
 My proto heavy vk0 or vk1 with complex mods and proto forge proto ishicone assault smg set up used to cost just over 1 mill isk .
 I fo think proto equipment should return to chromasome prices as it acctually deterd proto stomoing becuase of the potential loss of even 1 suit acctually mattered.
 
 Listen to the old man. He knows what it's about. Sea of wisdom ppl
 
 
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        |  Terram Nenokal
 Namtar Elite
 Gallente Federation
 
 193
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 15:49:00 -
          [10] - Quote 
 Small advantages should be expensive. If you're dieing in your proto gear, you probably shouldn't be using proto gear.
 
 This game needs more risk v reward, not less.
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        |  Sinboto Simmons
 SVER True Blood
 Public Disorder.
 
 1278
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 16:07:00 -
          [11] - Quote 
 
 Terram Nenokal wrote:Small advantages should be expensive. If you're dieing in your proto gear, you probably shouldn't be using proto gear.
 This game needs more risk v reward, not less.
 That's just it too much risk very little reward and there be where the problem lay.
 
 And I'm a scout so I'm going to die regardless.
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        |  1st Lieutenant Tiberius
 0uter.Heaven
 
 140
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 16:14:00 -
          [12] - Quote 
 
 Sinboto Simmons wrote:Ok so any player that's been around from the closed beta knows that there has been a massive change in the game, this is of course expected no game runs for over a year and doesn't change, however the problem comes in when the nerfbat started busting balls. To make the game easier for new players to join and compete there were changes made to higher level gear such as:
 Base HP is no longer increased by suit tier.
 
 Many weapon's damage were brought closer together from STD-ADV-PRO levels.
 
 While I disagree with these changes I can see why it was done, however this thread isn't for complaining about that no matter how much I dislike them.
 
 Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly, tankers using PRO mods on your fits you know what I mean, the PRO versions of said gear only giving slight advantages when it comes to gear most noticeably on many weapons baring a few exceptions with damage mods being the only way to secure a respectable gap in power, the mass driver is a prime example.
 
 Despite the very small advantage many of these things have a rather large price tag, a price that is not warranted by the small jump in effectiveness, concerning the future of dust/eve interaction if this continues why would a pilot waste isk on a merc team in PRO gear when another merc team could do their job just as effectively in a less costly STD fit?
 
 Because of this I'm requesting the prices on STD-ADV-PRO gear be brought closer together or more to the point for PRO gear to be lowed in price to be closer to ADV level gear; the minor jump in effectiveness of these items just don't justify the massive cost.
 
 
 
 
 The suit doesnt make the player, run STD and stomp them if youre losing too much money. a good player can utilize that small advantage in proto to accentuate their innate skill, we all recognize those players. PRO equipment should be expensive and you should be punished for losing it. fly only what you can afford, i have no problem competing in ADV gear and i am making a fortune doing so
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        |  Stile451
 Red Star.
 EoN.
 
 236
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 17:56:00 -
          [13] - Quote 
 
 Piraten Hovnoret wrote:We also made isk hand over fist as well, and the HP buff and proto weapon damage being far higher meant you could dominate in a match without worrying about losing your suit.pegasis prime wrote:Proto infantry equipment got a price reduction at tge start of uprising and the only proto equipment that vehicles can purchase was raised in price and had their dammage reduced while the infantry proto equipment was buffed. 
 My proto heavy vk0 or vk1 with complex mods and proto forge proto ishicone assault smg set up used to cost just over 1 mill isk.
 I fo think proto equipment should return to chromasome prices as it acctually deterd proto stomoing becuase of the potential loss of even 1 suit acctually mattered.
 Listen to the old man. He knows what it's about. Sea of wisdom ppl 
 Right now losing 2 or 3 is a loss for nearly everyone. Cost really isn't the problem, it's the fact that many of us have over 100 million isk with nothing else to do with it or a fountain of isk being earned passively from districts.
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        |  Terram Nenokal
 Namtar Elite
 Gallente Federation
 
 194
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 18:22:00 -
          [14] - Quote 
 
 Sinboto Simmons wrote:Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly 
 It's possible because those players are playing better than you are. Despite your advantages in damage/health/speed/regen/whatever, they have out-smarted and out-skilled you, and that's a good thing. You don't earn these advantages through SP, you pay for these advantages through ISK and lots of it.
 
 I proto stomp every time I play Dust. I usually do well, but sometimes there is some hotshot in a STD suit who rolls me simply because he's better at the game than I am. That person absolutely earned it, and I deserve the frustration and losses I gambled on when I decided to spawn proto.
 
 Like someone said above, if you come out of an engagement with 20 armor HP remaining, you still came out alive and the other guy didn't. That's the advantage you're paying for.
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        |  Severus Smith
 Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
 Caldari State
 
 359
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 19:10:00 -
          [15] - Quote 
 Look at the differences in Tech 1 vs Tech 2 modules is EVE Online. Maybe 5 - 10% better. Costs 100x more.
 
 Yet people pay for them. Because if your going to fly a 100 million ISK hull you want to pay that extra ISK to make sure it comes out alive at the end of the fight. If STD is so close to PRO then why make this thread? Why not use STD gear and laugh at all the PRO users you kill?
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        |  Sinboto Simmons
 SVER True Blood
 Public Disorder.
 
 1289
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 20:35:00 -
          [16] - Quote 
 
 Severus Smith wrote:Look at the differences in Tech 1 vs Tech 2 modules is EVE Online. Maybe 5 - 10% better. Costs 100x more.
 Yet people pay for them. Because if your going to fly a 100 million ISK hull you want to pay that extra ISK to make sure it comes out alive at the end of the fight. If STD is so close to PRO then why make this thread? Why not use STD gear and laugh at all the PRO users you kill?
 Mind you in eve it's the core skills you've trained that have the larger impact and not the ship you fly
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        |  Vell0cet
 Royal Uhlans
 Amarr Empire
 
 310
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 20:45:00 -
          [17] - Quote 
 Exponential price increase for linear performance increase. That's how the game is supposed to be balanced. If anything PRO gear should increase in price. It really should be unaffordable to run 24/7, and be more like something you pull out for important fights or when you're really pissed off and want to take revenge on the other guy.
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        |  deepfried salad gilliam
 Sanguine Knights
 
 3
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 22:09:00 -
          [18] - Quote 
 Linear effectiveness increase IS exponential
 screw math for 1 moment
 In a drag race if a car is 10% faster than the other guy it wins 99% off the races with user error accounting for loss
 Why?
 Because it will always do it's job better
 
 Now apply this to war
 If I can kill my opponent 10% faster in war I win 99%of the time with all failures being user error
 why?
 Because once he's dead he stops shooting
 
 So if I kill my enemies 10% faster that means they die I live
 I live so I regen my hp and kill again
 
 Its not over priced because a mlt user can out skill you,you get double teamed,or you have bad luck
 
 
 So yeah the numbers may seem like crap but "small bonuses" yield large results
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        |  Meeko Fent
 Seituoda Taskforce Command
 Caldari State
 
 981
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 22:12:00 -
          [19] - Quote 
 I can agree with just nerfing the prices of vehicles across the board, but I don't see why infantry prices need to be reduced.
 
 The infantry pay for a good edge over the lower tier suits. 1v1, proto wins hands down, and they pay for the bonus. A squad of it still squashes standard squads. And it should be a pay to get a edge.
 
 Vehicles-Cut away
 
 Infantry-It is a pay to get a nice edge
 
 I just can't understand how CCP thought a million for a turret is good math.
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        |  Draco Cerberus
 Hellstorm Inc
 League of Infamy
 
 327
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 22:20:00 -
          [20] - Quote 
 I would rather desire for CCP to allow us to set the prices ourselves. Opening the market to player based trading would do this. Allowing Eve players to manufacture our gear would do this as would in addition to creating One Universe and One War they finish One Market. That way we would have a player driven market, where the sought after gear is more expensive and the stuff that will "get you by" is affordable and competitively priced.
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        |  Vesago Ghostcore
 Rejected Clones
 
 20
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 22:34:00 -
          [21] - Quote 
 
 Draco Cerberus wrote:I would rather desire for CCP to allow us to set the prices ourselves. Opening the market to player based trading would do this. Allowing Eve players to manufacture our gear would do this as would in addition to creating One Universe and One War they finish One Market. That way we would have a player driven market, where the sought after gear is more expensive and the stuff that will "get you by" is affordable and competitively priced. 
 
 The market in EVE is already set up for this, but the BP's aren't available for sale yet.
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        |  KEROSIINI-TERO
 Seraphim Initiative..
 
 752
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 22:45:00 -
          [22] - Quote 
 
 Sinboto Simmons wrote:.
 .
 OP POST
 .
 .
 
 
 The price/power curve seems pretty okay.
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        |  fawkuima juggalo
 Pawns and Kings
 The Superpowers
 
 37
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 22:48:00 -
          [23] - Quote 
 YES PLEASE!
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        |  Patrick57
 GunFall Mobilization
 Covert Intervention
 
 312
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.23 22:48:00 -
          [24] - Quote 
 
 Sinboto Simmons wrote:Ok so any player that's been around from the closed beta knows that there has been a massive change in the game, this is of course expected no game runs for over a year and doesn't change, however the problem comes in when the nerfbat started busting balls. To make the game easier for new players to join and compete there were changes made to higher level gear such as:
 Base HP is no longer increased by suit tier.
 
 Many weapon's damage were brought closer together from STD-ADV-PRO levels.
 
 While I disagree with these changes I can see why it was done, however this thread isn't for complaining about that no matter how much I dislike them.
 
 Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly, tankers using PRO mods on your fits you know what I mean, the PRO versions of said gear only giving slight advantages when it comes to gear most noticeably on many weapons baring a few exceptions with damage mods being the only way to secure a respectable gap in power, the mass driver is a prime example.
 
 Despite the very small advantage many of these things have a rather large price tag, a price that is not warranted by the small jump in effectiveness, concerning the future of dust/eve interaction if this continues why would a pilot waste isk on a merc team in PRO gear when another merc team could do their job just as effectively in a less costly STD fit?
 
 Because of this I'm requesting the prices on STD-ADV-PRO gear be brought closer together or more to the point for PRO gear to be lowed in price to be closer to ADV level gear; the minor jump in effectiveness of these items just don't justify the massive cost.
 
 
 
 My Proto fit that I made with the fitting tool costs 200k ISK :( Thank goodness I can't quite build that one though or I would go broke lol
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        |  Arkena Wyrnspire
 Turalyon 514
 Turalyon Alliance
 
 3432
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 19:12:00 -
          [25] - Quote 
 I disagree.
 Strenuously.
 
 Protostomping is already a significant problem in public matches - If you reduce the price of prototype gear, it'll get even more ridiculous for the newbies.
 
 The difference between a protosuit and a standard suit is massive. I can almost understand where you're coming from for the suits, but let me give you an example:
 A standard Gallente logistics suit has 2 low slots and no midslots.
 A prototype Gallente logistics suit has 3 midslots and 5 lowslots.
 
 Do you really not think that's much of a difference? Especially when the prototype has comparatively higher fitting resources so it can fit better gear in each slot?
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