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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1267
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 04:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok so any player that's been around from the closed beta knows that there has been a massive change in the game, this is of course expected no game runs for over a year and doesn't change, however the problem comes in when the nerfbat started busting balls. To make the game easier for new players to join and compete there were changes made to higher level gear such as:
Base HP is no longer increased by suit tier.
Many weapon's damage were brought closer together from STD-ADV-PRO levels.
While I disagree with these changes I can see why it was done, however this thread isn't for complaining about that no matter how much I dislike them.
Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly, tankers using PRO mods on your fits you know what I mean, the PRO versions of said gear only giving slight advantages when it comes to gear most noticeably on many weapons baring a few exceptions with damage mods being the only way to secure a respectable gap in power, the mass driver is a prime example.
Despite the very small advantage many of these things have a rather large price tag, a price that is not warranted by the small jump in effectiveness, concerning the future of dust/eve interaction if this continues why would a pilot waste isk on a merc team in PRO gear when another merc team could do their job just as effectively in a less costly STD fit?
Because of this I'm requesting the prices on STD-ADV-PRO gear be brought closer together or more to the point for PRO gear to be lowed in price to be closer to ADV level gear; the minor jump in effectiveness of these items just don't justify the massive cost.
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
8
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Posted - 2013.09.23 04:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:Ok so any player that's been around from the closed beta knows that there has been a massive change in the game, this is of course expected no game runs for over a year and doesn't change, however the problem comes in when the nerfbat started busting balls. To make the game easier for new players to join and compete there were changes made to higher level gear such as:
Base HP is no longer increased by suit tier.
Many weapon's damage were brought closer together from STD-ADV-PRO levels.
While I disagree with these changes I can see why it was done, however this thread isn't for complaining about that no matter how much I dislike them.
Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly, tankers using PRO mods on your fits you know what true, so true, or make suits get hp per level 57k for 1 suit, 400k for a pro turret |
Piraten Hovnoret
No Tax Scrubs
101
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Posted - 2013.09.23 06:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:Ok so any player that's been around from the closed beta knows that there has been a massive change in the game, this is of course expected no game runs for over a year and doesn't change, however the problem comes in when the nerfbat started busting balls. To make the game easier for new players to join and compete there were changes made to higher level gear such as:
Base HP is no longer increased by suit tier.
Many weapon's damage were brought closer together from STD-ADV-PRO levels.
While I disagree with these changes I can see why it was done, however this thread isn't for complaining about that no matter how much I dislike them.
Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly, tankers using PRO mods on your fits you know what I mean, the PRO versions of said gear only giving slight advantages when it comes to gear most noticeably on many weapons baring a few exceptions with damage mods being the only way to secure a respectable gap in power, the mass driver is a prime example.
Despite the very small advantage many of these things have a rather large price tag, a price that is not warranted by the small jump in effectiveness, concerning the future of dust/eve interaction if this continues why would a pilot waste isk on a merc team in PRO gear when another merc team could do their job just as effectively in a less costly STD fit?
Because of this I'm requesting the prices on STD-ADV-PRO gear be brought closer together or more to the point for PRO gear to be lowed in price to be closer to ADV level gear; the minor jump in effectiveness of these items just don't justify the massive cost.
I totally agre with you. Will add one thing to it if IF pro gear gets a bump it also should get a increase cost in isk. The proto stomp problem in bub matches is a problem 4 the new players that comes into the game.
There is many in the game ( me included ) that will never get a chance to do PC. For me the game need a "easy" mode where proto stomping is banned or wery wery expensive to use.
I go full proto in pub when there is proto stompers on the other side, or when I notice that both sides starts 2 use it.
So what am I saying realy dam I am al over the.
1 increase the base stats of proto gear 2 increase the cost of proto gear 3 increase pay out in PC 4 get PvE going ( that's the easy mode)
Regards |
deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
1
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Posted - 2013.09.23 10:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Disagree, small advantages go far in war living with 30 hp left is still alive to regen and repeat |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1686
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Posted - 2013.09.23 11:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Sinboto Simmons wrote:Ok so any player that's been around from the closed beta knows that there has been a massive change in the game, this is of course expected no game runs for over a year and doesn't change, however the problem comes in when the nerfbat started busting balls. To make the game easier for new players to join and compete there were changes made to higher level gear such as:
Base HP is no longer increased by suit tier.
Many weapon's damage were brought closer together from STD-ADV-PRO levels.
While I disagree with these changes I can see why it was done, however this thread isn't for complaining about that no matter how much I dislike them.
Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly, tankers using PRO mods on your fits you know what true, so true, or make suits get hp per level 57k for 1 suit, 400k for a pro turret pro turrets cost more than that and can cost 900k~ |
pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1016
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Posted - 2013.09.23 11:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Proto infantry equipment got a price reduction at tge start of uprising and the only proto equipment that vehicles can purchase was raised in price and had their dammage reduced while the infantry proto equipment was buffed.
My proto heavy vk0 or vk1 with complex mods and proto forge proto ishicone assault smg set up used to cost just over 1 mill isk . I fo think proto equipment should return to chromasome prices as it acctually deterd proto stomoing becuase of the potential loss of even 1 suit acctually mattered. |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
9
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Posted - 2013.09.23 11:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
ladwar wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:[quote=Sinboto Simmons]Ok so any player that's been around from the closed beta knows that there has been a massive change in the game, this is of course expected no game runs for over a year and doesn't change, however the problem comes in when the nerfbat started busting balls. To make the game easier for new players to join and compete there were changes made to higher level gear such as:
Base HP is no longer increased by suit tier.
Many weapon's damage were brought closer together from STD-ADV-PRO levels.
While I disagree with these changes I can see why it was done, however this thread isn't for complaining about that no matter how much I dislike them.
Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly, tankers using PRO mods on your fits you know what true, so true, or make suits get hp per level 57k for 1 suit, 400k for a pro turret too expensive, buy tanks with 900k |
Cyzad4
Blackfish Corp.
23
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Posted - 2013.09.23 12:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
pretty much why I don't bother running proto anything, I mean
basic SR - 209 damage - 1200 isk Ishukone SR - 229 damage - 27,000 isk
prices are a bit off i think but theyre around there anyway, and assuming vehicles prices are even more inflated. |
Piraten Hovnoret
No Tax Scrubs
103
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Posted - 2013.09.23 15:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:Proto infantry equipment got a price reduction at tge start of uprising and the only proto equipment that vehicles can purchase was raised in price and had their dammage reduced while the infantry proto equipment was buffed.
My proto heavy vk0 or vk1 with complex mods and proto forge proto ishicone assault smg set up used to cost just over 1 mill isk . I fo think proto equipment should return to chromasome prices as it acctually deterd proto stomoing becuase of the potential loss of even 1 suit acctually mattered.
Listen to the old man. He knows what it's about. Sea of wisdom ppl
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Terram Nenokal
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
193
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Posted - 2013.09.23 15:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Small advantages should be expensive. If you're dieing in your proto gear, you probably shouldn't be using proto gear.
This game needs more risk v reward, not less. |
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1278
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 16:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Terram Nenokal wrote:Small advantages should be expensive. If you're dieing in your proto gear, you probably shouldn't be using proto gear.
This game needs more risk v reward, not less. That's just it too much risk very little reward and there be where the problem lay.
And I'm a scout so I'm going to die regardless. |
1st Lieutenant Tiberius
0uter.Heaven
140
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 16:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:Ok so any player that's been around from the closed beta knows that there has been a massive change in the game, this is of course expected no game runs for over a year and doesn't change, however the problem comes in when the nerfbat started busting balls. To make the game easier for new players to join and compete there were changes made to higher level gear such as:
Base HP is no longer increased by suit tier.
Many weapon's damage were brought closer together from STD-ADV-PRO levels.
While I disagree with these changes I can see why it was done, however this thread isn't for complaining about that no matter how much I dislike them.
Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly, tankers using PRO mods on your fits you know what I mean, the PRO versions of said gear only giving slight advantages when it comes to gear most noticeably on many weapons baring a few exceptions with damage mods being the only way to secure a respectable gap in power, the mass driver is a prime example.
Despite the very small advantage many of these things have a rather large price tag, a price that is not warranted by the small jump in effectiveness, concerning the future of dust/eve interaction if this continues why would a pilot waste isk on a merc team in PRO gear when another merc team could do their job just as effectively in a less costly STD fit?
Because of this I'm requesting the prices on STD-ADV-PRO gear be brought closer together or more to the point for PRO gear to be lowed in price to be closer to ADV level gear; the minor jump in effectiveness of these items just don't justify the massive cost.
The suit doesnt make the player, run STD and stomp them if youre losing too much money. a good player can utilize that small advantage in proto to accentuate their innate skill, we all recognize those players. PRO equipment should be expensive and you should be punished for losing it. fly only what you can afford, i have no problem competing in ADV gear and i am making a fortune doing so |
Stile451
Red Star. EoN.
236
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 17:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Piraten Hovnoret wrote:pegasis prime wrote:Proto infantry equipment got a price reduction at tge start of uprising and the only proto equipment that vehicles can purchase was raised in price and had their dammage reduced while the infantry proto equipment was buffed.
My proto heavy vk0 or vk1 with complex mods and proto forge proto ishicone assault smg set up used to cost just over 1 mill isk. I fo think proto equipment should return to chromasome prices as it acctually deterd proto stomoing becuase of the potential loss of even 1 suit acctually mattered. Listen to the old man. He knows what it's about. Sea of wisdom ppl We also made isk hand over fist as well, and the HP buff and proto weapon damage being far higher meant you could dominate in a match without worrying about losing your suit.
Right now losing 2 or 3 is a loss for nearly everyone. Cost really isn't the problem, it's the fact that many of us have over 100 million isk with nothing else to do with it or a fountain of isk being earned passively from districts. |
Terram Nenokal
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
194
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Posted - 2013.09.23 18:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly
It's possible because those players are playing better than you are. Despite your advantages in damage/health/speed/regen/whatever, they have out-smarted and out-skilled you, and that's a good thing. You don't earn these advantages through SP, you pay for these advantages through ISK and lots of it.
I proto stomp every time I play Dust. I usually do well, but sometimes there is some hotshot in a STD suit who rolls me simply because he's better at the game than I am. That person absolutely earned it, and I deserve the frustration and losses I gambled on when I decided to spawn proto.
Like someone said above, if you come out of an engagement with 20 armor HP remaining, you still came out alive and the other guy didn't. That's the advantage you're paying for. |
Severus Smith
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
359
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Posted - 2013.09.23 19:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Look at the differences in Tech 1 vs Tech 2 modules is EVE Online. Maybe 5 - 10% better. Costs 100x more.
Yet people pay for them. Because if your going to fly a 100 million ISK hull you want to pay that extra ISK to make sure it comes out alive at the end of the fight. If STD is so close to PRO then why make this thread? Why not use STD gear and laugh at all the PRO users you kill? |
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1289
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Severus Smith wrote:Look at the differences in Tech 1 vs Tech 2 modules is EVE Online. Maybe 5 - 10% better. Costs 100x more.
Yet people pay for them. Because if your going to fly a 100 million ISK hull you want to pay that extra ISK to make sure it comes out alive at the end of the fight. If STD is so close to PRO then why make this thread? Why not use STD gear and laugh at all the PRO users you kill? Mind you in eve it's the core skills you've trained that have the larger impact and not the ship you fly |
Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
310
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Exponential price increase for linear performance increase. That's how the game is supposed to be balanced. If anything PRO gear should increase in price. It really should be unaffordable to run 24/7, and be more like something you pull out for important fights or when you're really pissed off and want to take revenge on the other guy. |
deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
3
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Posted - 2013.09.23 22:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Linear effectiveness increase IS exponential screw math for 1 moment In a drag race if a car is 10% faster than the other guy it wins 99% off the races with user error accounting for loss Why? Because it will always do it's job better
Now apply this to war If I can kill my opponent 10% faster in war I win 99%of the time with all failures being user error why? Because once he's dead he stops shooting
So if I kill my enemies 10% faster that means they die I live I live so I regen my hp and kill again
Its not over priced because a mlt user can out skill you,you get double teamed,or you have bad luck
So yeah the numbers may seem like crap but "small bonuses" yield large results |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
981
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 22:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
I can agree with just nerfing the prices of vehicles across the board, but I don't see why infantry prices need to be reduced.
The infantry pay for a good edge over the lower tier suits. 1v1, proto wins hands down, and they pay for the bonus. A squad of it still squashes standard squads. And it should be a pay to get a edge.
Vehicles-Cut away
Infantry-It is a pay to get a nice edge
I just can't understand how CCP thought a million for a turret is good math. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
327
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 22:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
I would rather desire for CCP to allow us to set the prices ourselves. Opening the market to player based trading would do this. Allowing Eve players to manufacture our gear would do this as would in addition to creating One Universe and One War they finish One Market. That way we would have a player driven market, where the sought after gear is more expensive and the stuff that will "get you by" is affordable and competitively priced. |
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Vesago Ghostcore
Rejected Clones
20
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Posted - 2013.09.23 22:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:I would rather desire for CCP to allow us to set the prices ourselves. Opening the market to player based trading would do this. Allowing Eve players to manufacture our gear would do this as would in addition to creating One Universe and One War they finish One Market. That way we would have a player driven market, where the sought after gear is more expensive and the stuff that will "get you by" is affordable and competitively priced.
The market in EVE is already set up for this, but the BP's aren't available for sale yet. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative..
752
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Posted - 2013.09.23 22:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote: . . OP POST . .
The price/power curve seems pretty okay. |
fawkuima juggalo
Pawns and Kings The Superpowers
37
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Posted - 2013.09.23 22:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
YES PLEASE! |
Patrick57
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
312
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Posted - 2013.09.23 22:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:Ok so any player that's been around from the closed beta knows that there has been a massive change in the game, this is of course expected no game runs for over a year and doesn't change, however the problem comes in when the nerfbat started busting balls. To make the game easier for new players to join and compete there were changes made to higher level gear such as:
Base HP is no longer increased by suit tier.
Many weapon's damage were brought closer together from STD-ADV-PRO levels.
While I disagree with these changes I can see why it was done, however this thread isn't for complaining about that no matter how much I dislike them.
Because of these changes it's become possible for STD level gear to absolutely decimate gear far above it's class very quickly, tankers using PRO mods on your fits you know what I mean, the PRO versions of said gear only giving slight advantages when it comes to gear most noticeably on many weapons baring a few exceptions with damage mods being the only way to secure a respectable gap in power, the mass driver is a prime example.
Despite the very small advantage many of these things have a rather large price tag, a price that is not warranted by the small jump in effectiveness, concerning the future of dust/eve interaction if this continues why would a pilot waste isk on a merc team in PRO gear when another merc team could do their job just as effectively in a less costly STD fit?
Because of this I'm requesting the prices on STD-ADV-PRO gear be brought closer together or more to the point for PRO gear to be lowed in price to be closer to ADV level gear; the minor jump in effectiveness of these items just don't justify the massive cost.
My Proto fit that I made with the fitting tool costs 200k ISK :( Thank goodness I can't quite build that one though or I would go broke lol |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
3432
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 19:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
I disagree. Strenuously.
Protostomping is already a significant problem in public matches - If you reduce the price of prototype gear, it'll get even more ridiculous for the newbies.
The difference between a protosuit and a standard suit is massive. I can almost understand where you're coming from for the suits, but let me give you an example: A standard Gallente logistics suit has 2 low slots and no midslots. A prototype Gallente logistics suit has 3 midslots and 5 lowslots.
Do you really not think that's much of a difference? Especially when the prototype has comparatively higher fitting resources so it can fit better gear in each slot? |
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