DUST Search - tanks/infantry - a fresh start

ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:

no QQ please. lets not get into long drawn arguments. we all have our issues but lets keep this thread clean and to the point.

BEFORE CONTINUING PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT ON ANYONE ELSES COMMENTS.

ALSO THIS IS YOuR VIEWS ON HOW IT AFFECTS YOU AND NOT HOW YOU THINK IT AFFECTS OTHERS

this is all about your own personal views of how you think the balance or lack of balance is. hopefully CCP can make use of this information in the future without having to search through the many argument threads out there.

everyone has their views of what a tank should be, how it should be used, how it should be countered and how it can all be balanced to work together. none of us can agree on this and it has led us to many many forum threads which have gone nowhere except to increase the tensions between the 2 sides of the argument.

so what i am asking for here is as clearly as you can put it without attacking any side of the argument in the following format.

1) what role you play as your main spec i.e logi or blaster tank
2) how tanks/infantry affects your play style i.e when you see a tank what happens in general to your play style or when a tank sees av what does he do etc.
3) what you feel will make your role more effective at doing its job (no nerfs please as it will just aggravate those people that use that item)

please write your own views even if someone has already stated similar ones to yours.

hopefully if we can keep this clean and constructive ccp can work out a way to please everyone or at the very least we as a community can use this information to come up with ideas to benefit both sides.

Thanks in advance for anyone who takes part in this

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find=unread

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ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 308	Posted - 2013.09.22 10:49:00 - [1] - Quote no QQ please. lets not get into long drawn arguments. we all have our issues but lets keep this thread clean and to the point. BEFORE CONTINUING PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT ON ANYONE ELSES COMMENTS. this is all about your own personal views of how you think the balance or lack of balance is. hopefully CCP can make use of this information in the future without having to search through the many argument threads out there. everyone has their views of what a tank should be, how it should be used, how it should be countered and how it can all be balanced to work together. none of us can agree on this and it has led us to many many forum threads which have gone nowhere except to increase the tensions between the 2 sides of the argument. so what i am asking for here is as clearly as you can put it without attacking any side of the argument. 1) what role you play as your main spec i.e logi or blaster tank 2) how tanks/infantry affects your play style i.e when you see a tank what happens in general to your play style or when a tank sees av what does he do etc. 3) what you feel will make your role more effective at doing its job (no nerfs please as it will just aggravate those people that use that item) hopefully if we can keep this clean and constructive ccp can work out a way to please everyone or at the very least we as a community can use this information to come up with ideas to benefit both sides.
Chances Ghost D3M3NT3D M1NDZ The Umbra Combine 991	Posted - 2013.09.22 11:09:00 - [2] - Quote 1) used to play a rail tank that could roll 48-0 games and multiple orbitals during the reign of splash damage 1HKing infantry. i was very good at aiming and sniping targets with the railgun from max distance, even killing people while they were falling fromt he MCC (direct hit :P cant splash in the air) currently play demolitions/hacker logi SMG assault Novaknife Scout railtank missle tank blaster tank (all tanks shields) python erix racing charby as infantry when i see a tank... if i dont have AV equiped i simply avoid it or LOS it, so i dont die by tanks overy oftin and can usually counter them just by not making myself an easy target, i go about my buisness as usual. as a railtank i cant see infantry greater than 50m away reliably (i can see them further... i just cant ever be sure there isnt infantry staring at me with a forge gun 50m away. generally AV engage me beyond render distance, so i dont know where the AV is coming from and so it makes moving into cover difficult because i cant reliably deny LOS to my tank if i dont know where they are. to be more effective as a rail tank i need to be able to SEE infantry, thats it... all that needs to happen is for them to fix rendering distance. this would alow me to reliably use cover to mitigate damage and it would alow me to use the only advantage the railgun has wich is increase range. its not sniping anymore if i have to be within 50m so see people/turrets/vehicles
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 308	Posted - 2013.09.22 11:11:00 - [3] - Quote 1) current role in dust is amarr logibro 2) when i see a tank at close range i can't escape or hide due to my slow speed and die in about 2 blaster shots, my rep tools on them are so weak as to offer little or no benefit to the tanker making going to their rescue pointless. 3)for me to benefit a friendly tank i need a more powerful rep tool or be able to rep the tank from inside. for enemy tanks i need to be able to out maneuver out of danger when at close range making the need for close range av weapons not needed
Zelorian Dexter snr DVC 514 Aerodyne Collective 40	Posted - 2013.09.22 11:35:00 - [4] - Quote I'm unsure how this will be resolved as there are failures by both parties. I play logi and tend to support HAVs in the field. I also have turret skills trained so if I am a gunner I'm effective in this roles. But tankers don't help by running over friendly LAVs at the spawn for giggles. Infantry don't help by not supporting the tankers. When we deploy corp HAVs we run infantry support to deal with AV threats that arise. Both parties need to realise that working together makes tankers a very valuable asset on the field. Tankers need to be more respectful of infantry. If you deliberatly run a LAV over infantry will not respect you.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 607	Posted - 2013.09.22 11:41:00 - [5] - Quote 1) Current Role is Minmatar Flank/Assaulter Am going to spec into logi for a combat engineer role in the future 2) When I see a tank, I look at the stats in the bottom left corner, call it out to my team and bug out. Depending on the map, and how the tank behaves, I either ignore the tank and work on defending points it has attacked and left for infantry. Or I take my mlt FG fit and attempt to suppress its advance 3) I think tanks would be fairer if they had to rely on infantry/other vehicles in order to survive a long engagement. This includes longer cooldowns on defence oriented active modules. Armour based modules would last upwards of 5mins but would provide less power. While Sheild modulesvwould last 2min tops but provide a greater amount of survivability. Also active modules of the same type should not be activated separately, they should stack into a "mega-module" if you will. Draw distance, invis swarms and prehaps lai dai packed av grenades need fixed, and turrets need more defined roles, with more drawbacks to using the wrong turret for the wrong engagement.
straya fox CybinSect 33	Posted - 2013.09.22 12:01:00 - [6] - Quote I run vanilla Caldari assault, AR and SMG. I love it. I do everything i believe i have to to win the game, if i see a tank i switch to AV fit if a supply dep is within reach or next death... If left to roam tanks lock down the game. I have no problem with this. The problem arises when it takes 2 or 3 deaths from infantry while in AV fit just to engage the tank, you simply cannot fight back against infantry while hunting the tank. I jut want tankers to realise what we go through just to have a crack at them, most mercs don't bother and play avoidance ( which is a fair tactic considering ) But i guess its a personal flaw, i still throw clones at an objective when deep down i know we can't win.
J Lav OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 221	Posted - 2013.09.22 12:04:00 - [7] - Quote 1) Logi Support, vehicle specialist. I use vehicles to rep and resupply or to recon positions, and to provide over head support. 2) When I see a tank I usually swap into a swarm fit and kill it, or attempt to suppress it with a rail tank. Other times I'll rush the tank with a LAV and AV grenades, and kill it, then get out. Tanks are easy targets 90% of the time, sometimes we'll disengage, but only to to press a weakpoint or different objective. 3)My role would be more effective if I could see the AV coming, and if the LLAV's repping modules worked. Aiming them is impossible, and as of yet, I haven't been able to even rep another vehicle. Either I have to be so close that I explode on contact, or it glitches and doesn't work at all. Also, damage is rarely applied to my LLAV now, instead it goes right to the driver 60% of the time.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2215	Posted - 2013.09.22 12:44:00 - [8] - Quote 1) what role you play as your main spec i.e logi or blaster tank 2) how tanks/infantry affects your play style i.e when you see a tank what happens in general to your play style or when a tank sees av what does he do etc. 3) what you feel will make your role more effective at doing its job (no nerfs please as it will just aggravate those people that use that item) 1) Assault, AV Grenader, Swarmlaucher, Blaster Armour Tank 2) As an infantryman- With a friendly tank on the field it is possible to be vastly more aggressive, somewhat more stealthy especially when deploying uplinks, with an enemy tank on the field you must/ are forced to be less aggressive where that tank is present. As a Tanker- Friendly Tank allows me to again aggress more, to shift to other flanks of the battle since I know the friendly will most likely take the hotzone where the most combat will be found. With an enemy tank on the field I am on edge, I need to know a vast amount of information about the battlefield including, what type of tank STD, MLT, Enfrocer, Shield or Armour, Blaster, Missile, Rail, location, enemy concentrations etc. 3) Since I am a Tanker now. Amarr HAV will make my job better since I hate Gallente tanks. GOLD FOR DAYZ
Sgt Buttscratch SLAPHAPPY BANDITS 794	Posted - 2013.09.22 13:58:00 - [9] - Quote 1) what role you play as your main spec i.e logi or blaster tank I run Rail and Blaster tanks, I am also specced and practice Logi tanking. I am also specced into Assualt and sniping 2) how tanks/infantry affects your play style i.e when you see a tank what happens in general to your play style or when a tank sees av what does he do etc. Hard one to answer, some teams have good AV ethics and know to supress tanks. Other teams are useless and I find my self running to a nice vantage point to Rail the tanks face. All situational. 3) what you feel will make your role more effective at doing its job (no nerfs please as it will just aggravate those people that use that item) Removing the cheapness of AV, both in SP and in how it happens ingame. Swarms can't be invisible, It's simply bull ****. When in my rail tank after 100m a swarmer is invisible..pathetic. AV grenades are also very cheap in how they work. Also if blue snipers quit being terrible and shoot the guys shooting huge blue balls or firework. They are usually easy snipes, but most snipers are looking for enemies who are pre injured or lower ehp, for selfish killing, rather than actually helping. Something that would also help my roles is WP for remote reps, and maybe if they had any idea of what balance is.
Athena Sentinel Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 77	Posted - 2013.09.22 14:06:00 - [10] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: no QQ please. lets not get into long drawn arguments. we all have our issues but lets keep this thread clean and to the point. BEFORE CONTINUING PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT ON ANYONE ELSES COMMENTS. ALSO THIS IS YOuR VIEWS ON HOW IT AFFECTS YOU AND NOT HOW YOU THINK IT AFFECTS OTHERS this is all about your own personal views of how you think the balance or lack of balance is. hopefully CCP can make use of this information in the future without having to search through the many argument threads out there. everyone has their views of what a tank should be, how it should be used, how it should be countered and how it can all be balanced to work together. none of us can agree on this and it has led us to many many forum threads which have gone nowhere except to increase the tensions between the 2 sides of the argument. so what i am asking for here is as clearly as you can put it without attacking any side of the argument in the following format. 1) what role you play as your main spec i.e logi or blaster tank 2) how tanks/infantry affects your play style i.e when you see a tank what happens in general to your play style or when a tank sees av what does he do etc. 3) what you feel will make your role more effective at doing its job (no nerfs please as it will just aggravate those people that use that item) please write your own views even if someone has already stated similar ones to yours. hopefully if we can keep this clean and constructive ccp can work out a way to please everyone or at the very least we as a community can use this information to come up with ideas to benefit both sides. Thanks in advance for anyone who takes part in this https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find=unread Hi, my name is Adam and I am a Narcissistic. The answer is listen to me well I caps, bold, and underline my text to prove a point.

Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 348	Posted - 2013.09.22 14:11:00 - [11] - Quote Your goal is nice and I want to support it, so I'll put some of my time even if I'm exhausted of posting my opinions about tanks and infantry. 1. - Caldari Assault. - Blaster/Rail Shield Tanks (I have 2 alt characters specced into different things, including Forge Gun, but I'm not sure if I should be posting about them, so I'll just explain my point of view when playing this character) 2. -When I play as infantry (80% of the time), I recognize tanks as a potential danger and I avoid them, since I'm not specced into AV. It's not hard to stay away from them generally, they are big, slow and blatant. I let the AV guys in my team do their job, while I keep flanking and pushing the enemy infantry. Blue tanks are a good thing to see in a match. They force the enemy to their AV, giving me the chance to slay the enemies while they focus on the vehicles. Also, they bring fear to the enemies and courage to the allies. When I recognize a good tanker in my team, I usually move along him to defend him from the AVers. Easy kills. When that is not possible (the tank is too far into the enemy line or it just moves away), I just let the tanker do his job without interfering. However, I keep my eyes on the killfeed, because it's very important to know how the tank is operating or if the enemies destroy it. -Things are different when I'm in the tank. Random people jump in my vehicle and sit there for the whole match shooting my turrets randomly and continously and alerting the enemy. Whenever an AV guy pops out, they do not jump out to kill him and they do not hack anything even when I sit there waitnig for them to do their part. They also prevent me from recalling my tank and they usually die even when I manage to get out just in time. They just sit there, no matter what. Generally, the rare ones who support me and defend me are just people out of the tank. Someone actually tried to repair my tank once or twice, it was amazing because I'm not used to that kind of support. Enemy infantry is the real danger when I tank, they can engage from out of my render distance and multiple attacks are chaotic and panic-inducing. Using cover is crucial, but most of the time I find hard to guess the exact position of the enemy. Sometimes it's useless, however, since swarm launchers tend to turn around corners. Also, enemy sniper tanks are the worst thing ever. I'm actually living on the edge trying to help my team with my tank and... BOOM. (starts raging...) Those people don't deserve to be called tankers (end of rage). AV... I'm a shield tanker, so I can stand swarms, even if they're quite powerful. AV nades... heh, extremely powerful, but I've noticed that the number of AV nades on the battlefield has reduced after the Murder Taxi nerf. And this is very good, since Dai Lai can almost insta-kill even a good Gunnlogi. 1-2-3 dead. Whenever I see an enemy dropping a nanohive next to my tank I crap myself XD But... the real enemy for me... yes. That thing. 4 shots in 10 seconds for 8000+ damage. Damage bonus on shields. Massive range. Impossible to counter even with a rail gun because of the render distance and the fact that's almost impossible to hit such a small target far away (without considering that forge gunners are often on towers or buildings and a HAV turret can't tilt that much). Can destroy my tank before the RDV drops it... not much to say, the forge gun is my death. 3. -As infantry, no problems against enemy tanks. It's not my job to destroy them. Obviously if no one tries to destroy them, we're most likely going to lose the match. Nothing to improve my role, here, I can even equip AV grenades if I want to, just because I specced a bit into grenades. I can also use the rail gun installations against enemy vehicles and I can call my tank as well. -As a tank pilot... I souldn't be afraid of one single AV guy. At least I should always have the chance to retreat against a single one of them. If I'm caught in the open space (some maps are wide open and there is nothing you can do about it), even one AVer can destroy my tank and I don't always have the chance to take cover or shoot back. In this case, if the enemy is a forge gunner on a tower, I simply have no escape. Where do I run? Not only I can't shoot him, I can't see him and even so there's no chance to save my tank. 4 shots in 10 seconds and I'm large and slow. Forge gun outdamages my rail gun and has no fall off or damage fall off and no sway. Forge gunners are the "quickscopers" of this game, but they have splash damage and they damage vehicles. I know you asked not to touch the "nerf" button, but what should I do? The Forge gun IS my main problem as a tanker (sniper tanks can be worse but they are not that common). No damage fall off is the main problem with this weapon in my point of view. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sktAvbnHvE4&feature=c4-overview&list=UUJe8E36GLsS5__3B3SYC0fw I'm sorry, I don't know what to say. -As for the rest, a VEHICLE LOCK TOGGLE would help me. A lot. I know CCP said there will be one, but words alone don't prevent idiots from getting in my tank. -Also, I want an eject button. Click that and you and your teammates get immediately out of your tank (which gets locked even for your squad mates) and you can recall it. Easy. -More powerful Shield Boosters. -Some sort of Shield/Armor basic passive resistance! The LLAV has massive passive resistance and the HAV has not!. Seriously, wtf? That's what I can think of, for the moment. I might add some stuff if I find the inspiration...
ALPHA DECRIPTER M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces League of Infamy 494	Posted - 2013.09.22 14:18:00 - [12] - Quote I run a G-Scout all the time If a tank is in my way I usually scan it to alert my allies but if not on the appropriate fit then I will flux it in order to put the driver in a temporary state of panic. I think it would be nice to bring squad view back but restrict it to vehicles. In other words, when you detect a vehicle the rest of your squad is informed. Would get into the other things that would help but it's a long list and I'm not about to type THAT much. Very organized thread. Keep it up +1 `Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 811	Posted - 2013.09.22 15:26:00 - [13] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: everyone has their views of what a tank should be, how it should be used, how it should be countered and how it can all be balanced to work together. none of us can agree on this and it has led us to many many forum threads which have gone nowhere except to increase the tensions between the 2 sides of the argument. Except infantry's opinion of tank is that it should easily be destroyed, both supporting infantry as well as dealing with everything else at the same time, while maintaining at least 2 positions at once. Inherent problems: Tanks are easily destroyed, because fitting options have been decreased, and AV is incredibly strong. Those that come on here complaining that they can't destroy a tank are doing it wrong, because 9 times out of 10, they don't mention any other people launching AV at said tank. If we push up with infantry, enemy infantry just has to go to the supply depot and switch suits to swarm launchers with Lai Dais. Some enemy infantry will already have Lai Dais, because they're very cheap and very easy to use, so many already run around with those as their main grenade. Infantry is rarely able to take the supply depot, and as such we are forced to destroy it so that 1, our team can take the objective, and 2, the enemy can't destroy us so easily. If we stay in the back and snipe with a rail gun, we're called all sorts of names from the mundane to the dirty. They say we're useless, but it's the best way to try to be effective while not presenting much of a target to be destroyed. Infantry say it's too hard to destroy us. Well, you're probably doing it wrong. In 1.4, swarms received the largest buff ever. That's many thousands worth of damage hitting a tank within 4 seconds. Stop trying to go solo. Bring a friend. Bring 3 friends all with AV and nanohives. Why is it tankers always have to show how to destroy us? It really isn't that hard.
calvin b Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 587	Posted - 2013.09.22 15:37:00 - [14] - Quote I would comment but the wall of text in some replies scare the S*** out of me


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