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Beforcial
REAPERS REPUBLIC
13
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Posted - 2013.09.21 23:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Skihids wrote: Just thinking out loud:
Right now uplinks are pretty much magic teleports with no risk other than spawning near an enemy. It's essentially zero time travel that eliminates the risk of traversing the intervening area. Walking and taking a vehicle takes time and involves the risk of getting killed on the way.
As long as that's the case uplinks will trump vehicular travel because they are better in every way.
But what if teleporting carried a risk? What if there was a chance that you would die in the attempt? Yes it would suck to lose a suit, but it wouldn't have to be a high risk before it encouraged folks to walk, take the bus, or use a CRU.
People would still use uplinks for critical needs, but they wouldn't be used to simply deploy to the narrow front that they create.
Would adding an element of risk change how you use uplinks?
Nah, better to just only allow a minimum active at one time and/or they can't be placed too close together.
They already have a max active at one time depending on what type you use. And they have a max usage before it goes poof again depending what type you use, the same applies to nanohives.
The OP's idea is interesting if you change the loss of a dropsuit to shield/armor damage when using and being unlucky so to say.
I don't think it's stupid like some other mentioned but i think it's quiet irrelevant at this point, 65% of core elements are still missing in this game and then balanced. Only then i see this even being something to be discussed. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1338
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 23:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
Holy crap... are you guys trying to design the most unfun game every?
What fun is it to die at the dice when joining the game? Horrible idea. |
Eris Ernaga
Super Nerds
584
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 23:32:00 -
[33] - Quote
Skihids wrote: Just thinking out loud:
Right now uplinks are pretty much magic teleports with no risk other than spawning near an enemy. It's essentially zero time travel that eliminates the risk of traversing the intervening area. Walking and taking a vehicle takes time and involves the risk of getting killed on the way.
As long as that's the case uplinks will trump vehicular travel because they are better in every way.
But what if teleporting carried a risk? What if there was a chance that you would die in the attempt? Yes it would suck to lose a suit, but it wouldn't have to be a high risk before it encouraged folks to walk, take the bus, or use a CRU.
People would still use uplinks for critical needs, but they wouldn't be used to simply deploy to the narrow front that they create.
Would adding an element of risk change how you use uplinks?
Not really down for that idea but I hate how spawning on an uplink cloaks you, only because now you don't have to wisely choose your spawn point. Back in the Chromosome build if you spawned where a large amount of enemies were you'd get spawn killed, now if you choose a bad spot you essentially have the drop on the enemy because they can't see you. I wish when you spawned in the drop uplink went through an animation like powering, up shooting a small beam 3 meters in to the air, then settling back to normal. This would still make "smart spawning" something in Dust while allowing the cloak to still be useful by preventing spawn killing. |
Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
200
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Posted - 2013.09.21 23:45:00 -
[34] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Really? Can you imagine how **** it would be to spawn and then have the system go 'LOLNOPE YOU DIED'?
Not to seem like a troll, but doesn't that already happen? Especially when the enemy is camping your uplink, there is virtually ZERO way to see an enemy on the map anymore unless they are scanned out! So, you can just sit there and camp-instant kill the target when he spawns. |
Eris Ernaga
Super Nerds
585
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 23:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cenex Langly wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Really? Can you imagine how **** it would be to spawn and then have the system go 'LOLNOPE YOU DIED'? Not to seem like a troll, but doesn't that already happen? Especially when the enemy is camping your uplink, there is virtually ZERO way to see an enemy on the map anymore unless they are scanned out! So, you can just sit there and camp-instant kill the target when he spawns.
No because if he doesn't move he can get his sites right on you and actually get the first shots off. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
374
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Posted - 2013.09.22 00:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Basic uplink 25 percent chance of spawning alive.
Advanced 50 percent.
Proto 80 percent.
Throw in some uplinks that have a 100 percent chance but limit spawns to 4-6 per unit or a unit that has a even worst chance to spawn but the number is higher and you got a winner.
It even says the tech is dangerous in the description and the clone that uses it will die shortly after. And the award for worst idea of the week goes to... |
Lightning Bolt2
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
244
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Posted - 2013.09.22 00:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
Coleman Gray wrote:Drop links are fine since you need to put them down, the issue is Scouts are not running around and destroying them, I say scouts since A: Their the fastest and B: most likely to not be detected
I get no WP for destroying them, and also my mimitar assault fit I just got runs nearly as fast as my scout (been playing with a few scouts, not just keeping up with them but the scouts who didn't spec into kinkats I'm literally getting around faster!)
so in short, HIGH RISK, NO REWARD! (also, you'd have to sacrifice most of you're speed as a scout to be undetected by ADV scanners) |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
799
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 00:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
No, rather, it would spawn you in a random location around the uplink. A variant would get you closer, and the higher the tier, the better it is for getting close to the uplink. |
pyramidhead 420
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 00:48:00 -
[39] - Quote
not the best fix for uplinks, but they need some definite tweeking. uplink spam is out of control in some matches. i can deploy 6 different uplink drops at once, its a little much tbh. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
377
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 00:50:00 -
[40] - Quote
Lightning Bolt2 wrote:Coleman Gray wrote:Drop links are fine since you need to put them down, the issue is Scouts are not running around and destroying them, I say scouts since A: Their the fastest and B: most likely to not be detected I get no WP for destroying them, and also my mimitar assault fit I just got runs nearly as fast as my scout (been playing with a few scouts, not just keeping up with them but the scouts who didn't spec into kinkats I'm literally getting around faster!) so in short, HIGH RISK, NO REWARD! (also, you'd have to sacrifice most of you're speed as a scout to be undetected by ADV scanners) I think were getting WP for destroying equipment in 1.5 or 1.6 |
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pyramidhead 420
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2013.09.22 00:51:00 -
[41] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:No, rather, it would spawn you in a random location around the uplink. A variant would get you closer, and the higher the tier, the better it is for getting close to the uplink.
this is the best idea ive seen so far, relating to how to give "downside" to uplinks. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4255
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 01:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
pyramidhead 420 wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:No, rather, it would spawn you in a random location around the uplink. A variant would get you closer, and the higher the tier, the better it is for getting close to the uplink. this is the best idea ive seen so far, relating to how to give "downside" to uplinks.
I would actually see this as a plus side rather than a downside because then it makes it difficult for a spawn camper to accurately determine where exactly you'll spawn thus giving you a chance to line up your shot and then BOOOM HEADSHOT. |
pyramidhead 420
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 01:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:pyramidhead 420 wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:No, rather, it would spawn you in a random location around the uplink. A variant would get you closer, and the higher the tier, the better it is for getting close to the uplink. this is the best idea ive seen so far, relating to how to give "downside" to uplinks. I would actually see this as a plus side rather than a downside because then it makes it difficult for a spawn camper to accurately determine where exactly you'll spawn thus giving you a chance to line up your shot and then BOOOM HEADSHOT.
i always come out of an uplink holding left or right on the L3, so im moving already when i spawn. it works pretty well on an uplink you think might have an enemy camping it.
on a side note, i rarely camp uplinks, as it distracts me from doing logi business :) i just destroy them right away. |
OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
701
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 02:11:00 -
[44] - Quote
Lol op thinks its a brilliant idea till he's chucking his controller cuz he spawned dead 6 times in a row! |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
6439
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 02:13:00 -
[45] - Quote
I wish drop uplinks made you, you know....drop.
Indoor areas would become much harder to crack if your dudez kept landing on the roof like they should be. |
OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
701
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 02:16:00 -
[46] - Quote
Skihids wrote: Just thinking out loud:
Right now uplinks are pretty much magic teleports with no risk other than spawning near an enemy. It's essentially zero time travel that eliminates the risk of traversing the intervening area. Walking and taking a vehicle takes time and involves the risk of getting killed on the way.
As long as that's the case uplinks will trump vehicular travel because they are better in every way.
But what if teleporting carried a risk? What if there was a chance that you would die in the attempt? Yes it would suck to lose a suit, but it wouldn't have to be a high risk before it encouraged folks to walk, take the bus, or use a CRU.
People would still use uplinks for critical needs, but they wouldn't be used to simply deploy to the narrow front that they create.
Would adding an element of risk change how you use uplinks?
Or maybe we could spawn in with one arm an one leg an shoot our guns by putting them under our arms an slipping our boot laces through the triggers an tugging on them with our teeth ?
Sounds creative enough to me, +1 |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
1015
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 14:50:00 -
[47] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Basic uplink 25 percent chance of spawning alive.
Advanced 50 percent.
Proto 80 percent.
Throw in some uplinks that have a 100 percent chance but limit spawns to 4-6 per unit or a unit that has a even worst chance to spawn but the number is higher and you got a winner.
It even says the tech is dangerous in the description and the clone that uses it will die shortly after. And the award for worst idea of the week goes to... Why? There is a risk to everything else, and not that uplinks are harder to detect they are even better. I've spent matches running around destroying uplinks just to see 11 more pop up.
If you don't like the death aspect(since that seems to be a major deal) how about a chance for the spawn to just not work, and the timer resets? |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1341
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 15:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:If you don't like the death aspect(since that seems to be a major deal) how about a chance for the spawn to just not work, and the timer resets?
Look, I don't know about everyone else but I'm okay if some pudknocker gets the drop on me. I'm not okay with some random game mechanic f'ing me up just for giggles.
I should die when I screw up or someone else does something good -- a game isn't about just rolling dice. You might as well go run around in Kansas and play "which tornado will hit here" and see how long you last. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
1015
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 15:18:00 -
[49] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:If you don't like the death aspect(since that seems to be a major deal) how about a chance for the spawn to just not work, and the timer resets? Look, I don't know about everyone else but I'm okay if some pudknocker gets the drop on me. I'm not okay with some random game mechanic f'ing me up just for giggles. I should die when I screw up or someone else does something good -- a game isn't about just rolling dice. You might as well go run around in Kansas and play "which tornado will hit here" and see how long you last. See, I'd agree with you pre 1.4 but the problem is they ate much harder to find and carry less risk.
You almost never get popped coming out of a well paced uplink. |
Avallo Kantor
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
184
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 15:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
Generally, in good game design, you want the players to always feel like bad things were "fair" to happen. By this I mean that either the bad thing was caused by another player action, or that there exists a strategy or method to avoid dying. For example, in other MMOs there exists boss fights with 1 hit kill abilities, however these only happen due to some mistake (like hitting an enrage timer) or due to not dodging something that could be avoided (Like a slow moving death beam)
What is "unfair" is things the players never have any control over, most of which generally fall under "RNG" (Random Number Generation) Very few players, if any, feel justified if they lose because of a random roll, and this is the reason why very few, if any shooters have "critical hit" chances.
In much the same way having a random chance to literally insta-kill a player is pretty much the height of unfair RNG chances, so nobody would ever find this a "fair" or "fun" method of gameplay. It would just be complained about and reviled.
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Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1342
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 15:30:00 -
[51] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:See, I'd agree with you pre 1.4 but the problem is they ate much harder to find and carry less risk.
You almost never get popped coming out of a well paced uplink.
Maybe the first step is to limit their numbers as an item type... not per individual uplink type carried? Who can watch all the uplinks on the map?
Anyway, if the risk is that someone gets the drop on me, I'm okay with that. If the risk is that I get dropped in a vat of acid and die upon jumping from the MCC (which I did not enjoy) then it blows. |
calvin b
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
587
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 15:33:00 -
[52] - Quote
STOP WITH THE F****** NERF THREADS. Please just stop, we have more pressing matters than QQing over BS. Lets get the more important things taking care of like Vehicles, weapons, suits, terrain issues etc before we start another nerf QQ thread. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2151
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 18:25:00 -
[53] - Quote
Avallo Kantor wrote:Generally, in good game design, you want the players to always feel like bad things were "fair" to happen. By this I mean that either the bad thing was caused by another player action, or that there exists a strategy or method to avoid dying. For example, in other MMOs there exists boss fights with 1 hit kill abilities, however these only happen due to some mistake (like hitting an enrage timer) or due to not dodging something that could be avoided (Like a slow moving death beam)
What is "unfair" is things the players never have any control over, most of which generally fall under "RNG" (Random Number Generation) Very few players, if any, feel justified if they lose because of a random roll, and this is the reason why very few, if any shooters have "critical hit" chances.
In much the same way having a random chance to literally insta-kill a player is pretty much the height of unfair RNG chances, so nobody would ever find this a "fair" or "fun" method of gameplay. It would just be complained about and reviled.
I agree with the insta-death thing. I'm just thinking out loud here to figure out if attaching some sort of inherent risk or downside to using an uplink might make other forms of transport viable.
The way uplinks are working today is fine if you like the way it concentrates the battle in a tiny part of the map, at least for public matches. I haven't been in PC for weeks so I don't know how they affect play there. It just seems that it's another requirement that you have enough links to keep your team constantly spawning at the front or you get pushed back from the objectives and lose.
I'm wondering if that use is curtailing more strategic play. I'm trying to make play more involved and fun rather than just "spawn in close and shoot face". That's fun in pubs for a while, but I can't help but think it's limiting long term. |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
673
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 18:38:00 -
[54] - Quote
I don't agree with a death but a risk that can be: a % on your total armor (like 50% armor) a temporary nerf on your stat (-50% on your speed or something) is something acceptable, of course a better Uplink has less risk % |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2151
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 22:53:00 -
[55] - Quote
To be clear I'm not suggesting this occur in isolation. This would only work after the vehicle rebalance made vehicular transport viable. |
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