Thought I'd post my notes on differences between passive and active scans, for the benefit of people who have, or are planning to, spec into passive scanning (or active scanning!)

People are welcome to post their own observations here. I just ask that you post specific factual things, rather than vague waffling.

My single observation so far:
Passive scans can go through thin walls, but not (very dense) solid objects such as clone repositories, or large rock boulders.
Active scans go through *anything*, as far as I can tell.

b) are a gallente, in a gallente scout suit, skilled up.

Your Faction has no bearing on anything ... anyone can train the Gallente Scout suit skill and gets the exact same suit n stats as a Gallente character would.

Not gallente "faction", gallente "race". some suits have racial bonuses. (actually, ALL suits of that tier, have them. See the chart referenced below)

I forget where in-game this is mentioned, but see
http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Skills#Dropsuit_Command_Sheet

The Gallente Scout Dropsuits line

If it isnt required to be the matching race, to get the bonus, then why do they go out of their way to earmark the benefit by race?

As for passive vs. active, I am noticing that passive is very line of sight based. Meaning, red-berries really only show up if they are in the front 180 degrees of view.

sigh. going to not reply to the whole racial thing here. that would be a long thread.
Instead, focusing down on actual scan issues for this thread;




That is NOT "passive scan". That is something that is not at all documented, and rarely mentioned. that is your field-of-view, weapon-based scan...... thing.
(And it's not 180 degrees. It's 90 degrees. 45 left of sight, and 45 right of sight)

Really stupidly and irritatingly, it has seemingly infinite precision. And ludicrously far range. This really needs to be removed.

Back to the implicit question in your post:
If redberries disappear from your rader when out of your field-of-view, that means 1 of 2 things. Either:

1. They're further out than 10 meters from you. Which is quite likely: 10 meters is TINY. The first circle on your rader denotes [b]20 meters[b/], if I recall correctly

2. you dont have enough passive scan precision to detect them.

This seems to happen to you a lot, so I'd guess you run around in assault/medium/heavy suits all the time.
In which case, this thread really doesnt have much for you, other than to point out that, while you cant see the scout sneaking up behind you, they can see YOU when you try to do it, juuust fiiine....

While this is how it "SHOULD" work in a perfect world sadly it's not.

Even if you have your precision up, along with your range enhancer you will not see the other person.

-I've tested this with my buddy in a FW match.
Passive scanners are broken and do not work. I've already addressed this to CCP a week ago with no reply yet.

I only notice my passive scanner when I am hacking a red CRU. If I keep my eye on the minimap, i can instantly tell if an enemy has spawned on the CRU. This is the only situation I have found that the passive scan is actually useful.

Just a note about passive scanners that never seems to be mentioned, they show you where the enemy Drop Uplinks and Nano Hives are. As a Gal infiltrator I find and eliminate a lot of these.

However.. keep in mind that the CRU counts as a "very solid object". If they are directly on the other side, you WONT SEE THEM.
(or maybe the thing is just so big, they're out of range. )

But anyways, that's another reason why doing the side-to-side dance is good. if you're right up to it, on the middle part, your passive scan is blocked from a large part of your area. I think.

Funny you should mention that. Seems that some suits have an easier time seeing them (without active scanners) than others.

scout suits, for example (or at least, MY scout suits ) can see them fairly easily. When in passive scanning range.

So they probably have a scan profile of around 45

I tested it myself, dual-boxing.
(managed to get them in same match, opposing team.)

Stood in the open. One char behind the other. One was scout, one was not.
When the non-scout approached the scout, appeared on the (very tiny) radar section within 10m.
did the "back, forward, back" test. Yup. matched up.

Turned them both around, let residual radar image fade out.
scout approached.... NOTHING.

So my guess is that either you miscalculated the relative precisions, or you had some wall between you that was an intrinsic dampener and affected your results.

disclaimer: I tested it a couple weeks ago before the upgrade, not this week. but I've seen passive scan work Just Fine for me running around as scout by myself. Matter of fact, it saved my butt when I was shooting from cover just a few days ago, and noticed someone sneaking up on me on radar. Sprinted ahead a bit, turned around and capped em :) Sadly, they were part of a team, so I didnt escape fully.

So I have every reason to believe it's working okay.

Not sure how you'd begin to rate solidness in-game.

Well, you can rate solidness by how thick the object is. ...

...
It seems to me that the thickness of the material is irrelevant. At least that's what my experience is telling me.

Passive Scanning occurs only in your forward Quadrant.

If so then the people in the rear aspect of my radar are residual from looking around? I think I am going to play around some next time I am on and see. Off to the hills to find a tunnel visioned sniper to run experiment with facing

Sometimes people pop on your radar outside because they preform an action that gives themself away. I can't verify what actions do, but I've been researching.

After many test I have deduced that your passive radar system does not work. It only shows enemies if you have them in your immediate line of sight. and what's the point of that then?

People will show up if they are near friendly installations or objectives though. Never got that.

Even with the stacking penalties, 63.8m is a large area to passively scan.

Not really, as anyone can kill you from 88m in half a second flat. Besides, dumping all your skill points in dampening and sacrificing 4 complex mods is too much.

Siighhh... I thought that stuff would be obvious. but if we need a "state the obvious" post in here, then let me get it all out of the way now.

Active scanner range can be 65, 100, or 150m, depending on the type. (usually 100m, even for basic)
The default level 1 active scanner will not pick up scout or light suits

Passive scan by default, for almost every suit, sucks (picks up almost nothing), UNLESS YOU
a) are in a scout or light suit.
and or
b) invest heavily in scan precision skills, and possibly equip precision modules
Edit: note that since scout gets a slight damp bonus, scout and light suits by default can pick up light suits, but not scout suits.

The passive scan range also sucks (10m default for all suits), UNLESS YOU
a) invest heavily in range modules, and skills
b) are a gallente, in a gallente scout suit, skilled up.

If you are a gallente, in a gallente scout suit, with scout suit skilled to 5, and range skilled to 5, then even the level 1 suit, can get you a passive scan range of 50 meters, with 2xprototype range.
37m with 1 range modules equipped. 22m without modules, I think.

In short, passive scan sucks unless you are a scout. If you are a scout, then it can vary between "slightly useful" and "REALLY useful". But you have to be aware of the limitations, such as it not being able to see through dense materials.

I only notice my passive scanner when I am hacking a red CRU. If I keep my eye on the minimap, i can instantly tell if an enemy has spawned on the CRU. This is the only situation I have found that the passive scan is actually useful.

Sometimes people pop on your radar outside because they preform an action that gives themself away. I can't verify what actions do, but I've been researching.

Passive Scanning occurs only in your forward Quadrant.

Sorry kirk it works for me, have you put any sp into prescsion?
Im on lvl 2 and I see dead people, scouts, I mean scouts!

oh wait same thing!!

I am intrigue by this thick object aspect you brought up.

In the gallente research facility map, I am able to be on the second floor from point Charlie and see the hostiles through several walls on the bottom floor. So we are talking about several layers of walls as I am able to see them spiral up the stairwell. I do not have any levels in gal scout, no modules to increase range, and only have passive range up to lvl 4.

I have level one and carry a precision enhancer because I'm gallente and I have a useless third highslot.

It seems to be working with people who have scout suits so I guess scout suits do fine.
Or gallente Assaults are just terrible at scanning

layers are irrelevant. Apparently, floors count even less than walls.


If you can see a person-shape through 1 pane of glass, then stacking 5 of them will not obscure you from seeing someone is there :)

I have level one and carry a precision enhancer because I'm gallente and I have a useless third highslot.

This is not true.

wierd-weapon-related-scan occurs in your forward quadrant. That is not "passive scanning". that is something that CCP has not given a name to.

As for true passive-scan, either you're testing the wrong thing, or your testing methodologies are flawed.

Your theory about "somethigng gives you away" does not explain how I saw people on my radar, behind me, when I had only been facing forward for the last 20 seconds (so no residuals) and they did not fire at me.


I've done careful testing (in prior version) and a test enemy approaching a base scout dropsuit from behind, or from the side, appeared at the expected place on my radar, without them doing ANYTHING other than simply moving.
As soon as they impinged 10m, that is.

We tested this and he was incorrect. The short passive range is deceptive and has lead to a few incorrect assumptions about how scanning works, such as seeing through things. I now think it's as simple as compare profile to sensitivity if in passive range. Walls, terrain, and activity have no bearing on detection.

sigh. going to not reply to the whole racial thing here. that would be a long thread.
Instead, focusing down on actual scan issues for this thread;




That is NOT "passive scan". That is something that is not at all documented, and rarely mentioned. that is your field-of-view, weapon-based scan...... thing.
(And it's not 180 degrees. It's 90 degrees. 45 left of sight, and 45 right of sight)

Really stupidly and irritatingly, it has seemingly infinite precision. And ludicrously far range. This really needs to be removed.

Back to the implicit question in your post:
If redberries disappear from your rader when out of your field-of-view, that means 1 of 2 things. Either:

1. They're further out than 10 meters from you. Which is quite likely: 10 meters is TINY. The first circle on your rader denotes 20 meters, if I recall correctly

2. you dont have enough passive scan precision to detect them.

This seems to happen to you a lot, so I'd guess you run around in assault/medium/heavy suits all the time.
In which case, this thread really doesnt have much for you, other than to point out that, while you cant see the scout sneaking up behind you, they can see YOU when you try to do it, juuust fiiine....

Leave it in. It saved me 2x last night because the merc blended with the scenery on a spin.