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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
141
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Posted - 2013.09.18 16:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Thought I'd post my notes on differences between passive and active scans, for the benefit of people who have, or are planning to, spec into passive scanning (or active scanning!)
People are welcome to post their own observations here. I just ask that you post specific factual things, rather than vague waffling.
My single observation so far:
Passive scans can go through thin walls, but not (very dense) solid objects such as clone repositories, or large rock boulders.
Active scans go through *anything*, as far as I can tell.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
141
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 17:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Siighhh... I thought that stuff would be obvious. but if we need a "state the obvious" post in here, then let me get it out of the way now.
Active scanner range can be 65, 100, or 150m, depending on the type. (usually 100m, even for basic)
The default level 1 active scanner will not pick up scout or lights suits
Passive scan by default, for almost every suit, sucks (picks up almost nothing), UNLESS YOU
a) are in a scout or light suit.
and or
b) invest heavily in scan precision skills, and possibly equip precision modules
The range also sucks (10m default for all suits), UNLESS YOU
a) invest heavily in range modules, and skills
b) are a gallente, in a gallente scout suit, skilled up.
If you are a gallente, in a gallente scout suit, with scout suit skilled to 5, and range skilled to 5, then even the level 1 suit, can get you a passive scan range of 50 meters, with 2xprototype range.
37m with 1 range modules equipped. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
141
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 17:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Quil Evrything wrote:b) are a gallente, in a gallente scout suit, skilled up. Your Faction has no bearing on anything ... anyone can train the Gallente Scout suit skill and gets the exact same suit n stats as a Gallente character would.
Not gallente "faction", gallente "race". some suits have racial bonuses.
I forget where in-game this is mentioned, but see
http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Skills#Dropsuit_Command_Sheet
The Gallente Scout Dropsuits line
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
142
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Posted - 2013.09.18 20:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
sigh. going to not reply to the whole racial thing here. that would be a long thread.
Instead, focusing down on actual scan issues for this thread;
PR DIABOLITO NY wrote:
As for passive vs. active, I am noticing that passive is very line of sight based. Meaning, red-berries really only show up if they are in the front 180 degrees of view.
That is NOT "passive scan". That is something that is not at all documented, and rarely mentioned. that is your field-of-view, weapon-based scan...... thing.
(And it's not 180 degrees. It's 90 degrees. 45 left of sight, and 45 right of sight)
Really stupidly and irritatingly, it has seemingly infinite precision. And ludicrously far range. This really needs to be removed.
Back to the implicit question in your post:
If redberries disappear from your rader when out of your field-of-view, that means 1 of 2 things. Either:
1. They're further out than 10 meters from you. Which is quite likely: 10 meters is TINY. The first circle on your rader denotes 20 meters, if I recall correctly
2. you dont have enough passive scan precision to detect them.
This seems to happen to you a lot, so I'd guess you run around in assault/medium/heavy suits all the time.
In which case, this thread really doesnt have much for you, other than to point out that, while you cant see the scout sneaking up behind you, they can see YOU when you try to do it, juuust fiiine.... |
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
142
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 20:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:
While this is how it "SHOULD" work in a perfect world sadly it's not.
Even if you have your precision up, along with your range enhancer you will not see the other person.
-I've tested this with my buddy in a FW match.
Passive scanners are broken and do not work. I've already addressed this to CCP a week ago with no reply yet.
I tested it myself, dual-boxing.
(managed to get them in same match, opposing team.)
Stood in the open. One char behind the other. One was scout, one was not.
When the non-scout approached the scout, appeared on the (very tiny) radar section within 10m.
did the "back, forward, back" test. Yup. matched up.
Turned them both around, let residual radar image fade out.
scout approached.... NOTHING.
So my guess is that either you miscalculated the relative precisions, or you had some wall between you that was an intrinsic dampener and affected your results.
disclaimer: I tested it a couple weeks ago before the upgrade, not this week. but I've seen passive scan work Just Fine for me running around as scout by myself. Matter of fact, it saved my butt when I was shooting from cover just a few days ago, and noticed someone sneaking up on me on radar. Sprinted ahead a bit, turned around and capped em :) Sadly, they were part of a team, so I didnt escape fully.
So I have every reason to believe it's working okay.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
142
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 20:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Grims Tooth wrote:I only notice my passive scanner when I am hacking a red CRU. If I keep my eye on the minimap, i can instantly tell if an enemy has spawned on the CRU. This is the only situation I have found that the passive scan is actually useful.
However.. keep in mind that the CRU counts as a "very solid object". If they are directly on the other side, you WONT SEE THEM.
(or maybe the thing is just so big, they're out of range. )
But anyways, that's another reason why doing the side-to-side dance is good. if you're right up to it, on the middle part, your passive scan is blocked from a large part of your area. I think.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
142
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 20:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Llast 326 wrote:Just a note about passive scanners that never seems to be mentioned, they show you where the enemy Drop Uplinks and Nano Hives are. As a Gal infiltrator I find and eliminate a lot of these.
Funny you should mention that. Seems that some suits have an easier time seeing them (without active scanners) than others.
scout suits, for example (or at least, MY scout suits  ) can see them fairly easily. When in passive scanning range.
So they probably have a scan profile of around 45
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
143
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 21:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Were you able to test how dense the material (in this case a wall or a CRU) needs to be before the passive scan becomes useless regardless of scan range of the passive scanner?
.[/quote]
Not sure how you'd begin to rate solidness in-game.
I will mention a recent observation, that is sadly tied to the forward-field-of-view scanning, where I noticed that a (presumably very solid) iron support beam that was barely wider than my toon, would cut things off from my radar.
It seems reasonable to assume that would also affect passive scanning.
I can't recall if LAVs cut it off. They might.
I had a wonderful moment a few weeks back, where I snuck up on two guys hacking an objective, crouched down behind their LAV, and committed grand theft LAV. Can't remember for SURE if they dropped off my passive scan, though.
Would be worth testing.
Who's gonna be brave enough to check it ? :D
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
143
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 22:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Quil Evrything wrote:Not sure how you'd begin to rate solidness in-game. Well, you can rate solidness by how thick the object is. ... ... It seems to me that the thickness of the material is irrelevant. At least that's what my experience is telling me.
Seems you are contradicting yourself a bit. or at least what I wrote :)
By 'solidness' I really mean 'density'.
Something can be very thick, without being dense.
Im guessing that "something made of lots of metal"
blocks it.
In contrast, concrete, does not(? maybe ?)
Yet, rock, does.
odd...
hmm... orr.. the rock was just so friggin big it put them outside my somewhat meagre range.
People with the proto-levels of passive scan range need to do more testing :p
My standard scout only has 21m range at best.
(although my double-equip fit has 28m I suppose. Hmm...)
PS: the suport iron beam that blocked my thing, was 2m wide, but probably only 1m deep.
very high though. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
149
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Passive Scanning occurs only in your forward Quadrant.
This is not true.
wierd-weapon-related-scan occurs in your forward quadrant. That is not "passive scanning". that is something that CCP has not given a name to.
As for true passive-scan, either you're testing the wrong thing, or your testing methodologies are flawed.
Your theory about "somethigng gives you away" does not explain how I saw people on my radar, behind me, when I had only been facing forward for the last 20 seconds (so no residuals) and they did not fire at me.
I've done careful testing (in prior version) and a test enemy approaching from behind, or from the side, appeared at the expected place on my radar, without them doing ANYTHING other than simply moving.
Within 10m, that is.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
149
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 04:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:I am intrigue by this thick object aspect you brought up.
In the gallente research facility map, I am able to be on the second floor from point Charlie and see the hostiles through several walls on the bottom floor. So we are talking about several layers of walls as I am able to see them spiral up the stairwell. I do not have any levels in gal scout, no modules to increase range, and only have passive range up to lvl 4.
layers are irrelevant. regular walls may as well be glass, I think.
If you can see a person-shape through 1 pane of glass, then stacking 5 of them will not obscure you from seeing someone is there :)
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
149
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 16:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:
I have level one and carry a precision enhancer because I'm gallente and I have a useless third highslot.
It's still almost a useless slot :-p
You'll only be able to pick up other assaults on passive scan.
Unless they have a few points in dampening, in which case you wont. even if they dont have a module equipped .
So, you 'll be able to tell if a greenhorn asault is sneaking up on you.
But who sneaks up on anyone in an assault suit???
You wont be able to passive-scan a light suit, let alone a scout suit. They're the ones that will be sneaking up on you.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
150
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Posted - 2013.09.19 17:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Quil Evrything wrote:
That is NOT "passive scan". That is something that is not at all documented, and rarely mentioned. that is your field-of-view, weapon-based scan...... thing.
(And it's not 180 degrees. It's 90 degrees. 45 left of sight, and 45 right of sight)
Really stupidly and irritatingly, it has seemingly infinite precision. And ludicrously far range. This really needs to be removed.
Leave it in. It saved me 2x last night because the merc blended with the scenery on a spin.
That's exactly why it should be removed.
ninja scout power!
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
179
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Posted - 2013.09.24 18:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
It has been claimed that if you dont hold steady, that lightup time is shorter.
So... if you're using one of the short duration scanners, and you just want to know, "are there any enemies near me?" then spinning is fine.
If on the other hand, you're using one of the long light-time ones, then spinning is probably counter-productive.
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