DUST Search - Forge Guns!?

Severus Smith wrote:

Ihlgigaris wrote:

Totally agree. Forge Guns are great weapons, but their range is a little... much. Maybe if the range isn't going to be changed, at least have an optimal damage range, like after a certain point, the damage on the weapon drops off. I've been caught in too many maps where someone wielding a forge gun is perched in some technically inaccessible portion of the map, pounding away at our infantry. He can be countersniped, which is not necessarily the problem. The problem is the fact that the weapon is just as effective at 400 meters as it is at 40 meters.

Forge Guns should be one of the longerst ranged weapons in the game. They are railguns, and shoot over 3000 m/s!

However I do think that you could tweak them slightly to keep them powerful AV weapons without nerfing their range. Give them zero splash damage. A tungsten slug moving at 3000 m/s is going to keep going into the dirt, not explode. It will also punch a hole through walls, crates, and even lamp posts before stopping!

No splash. So if that Forge Sniper wants to kill some infantry then he'll need to hit them dead on. Which if he can do that at 400m up on a building without zoom then props to him, he deserves the kill.

And this is coming from a Heavy player who, when he gets really angry at Proto AR users, pulls out an Assault Forge and kills everyone.

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Ryno Zamayid DIOS EX. Top Men. 2	Posted - 2013.09.17 18:28:00 - [1] - Quote I am a bit of a negative ned, But can you PLEASE readdress the forge gun... I forgot to write down the exact stats vs. the Tank rail turret, but it is outrageous. No I don't think they need to be nerfed, maybe the range because of those cheap forge snipers. And the invisible forge snipers the size of a pin head in your rail scope still wrecking your tanks and what not. A good 4 hits vs. shield tanks and you're... well tanked. Most don't loose a suit because they hide the entire time on top of some tower killing at ridiculous distances against infantry. And for god sakes, check out the cost of a proto forge gun vs. a proto rail gun and account for the damage difference BEFORE you start griping at me for not liking them folks. It's insane. either drop the range of the forge gun, or raise the cost to match the rail gun. After all the heavy forge gunner risks maybe 150k, the vehicle at least 800k, upwards to over a million. not to mention all the infantry that get one hit killed by something that was not meant to be a sniper weapon.
Ihlgigaris Force of The Gigas 4	Posted - 2013.09.17 18:43:00 - [2] - Quote Totally agree. Forge Guns are great weapons, but their range is a little... much. Maybe if the range isn't going to be changed, at least have an optimal damage range, like after a certain point, the damage on the weapon drops off. I've been caught in too many maps where someone wielding a forge gun is perched in some technically inaccessible portion of the map, pounding away at our infantry. He can be countersniped, which is not necessarily the problem. The problem is the fact that the weapon is just as effective at 400 meters as it is at 40 meters.
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 925	Posted - 2013.09.17 18:44:00 - [3] - Quote Tanks refire in .6 seconds. Forges, in a minimum refire in 2.5. Forge. Alpha strike. Large rails. DPS. Balance. Buff tanks survivability. That's all.
Summ Dude Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 31	Posted - 2013.09.17 21:06:00 - [4] - Quote As a forge gunner, I agree that they probably need a bit if a nerf. However, I don't think it's fair to compare them to vehicles right now, because vehicles clearly need a major buff. Hold that till after 1.5, when vehicles are redone. As for the optimal range damage drop off, I don't really see how it makes sense thematically. Forge guns are rail guns, just like sniper rifles; they're designed to fire at really long distances. If it needs a nerf against infantry, I'd recommend lowering the splash radius or something similar. That way a forge gunner way up high is pretty much never gonna hit infantry on the ground anyway.
Ryno Zamayid DIOS EX. Top Men. 2	Posted - 2013.09.17 21:55:00 - [5] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Tanks refire in .6 seconds. Forges, in a minimum refire in 2.5. Forge. Alpha strike. Large rails. DPS. Balance. Buff tanks survivability. That's all. What about the cost difference? The Ishukone F.G. costs 47,220 ISK 1663.2 Damage + the pro skill Proto Compressed Rail Gun costs 927,560 ISK 1798.7 Damage and no pro skill. Thank you all for chiming in guys.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 121	Posted - 2013.09.18 00:00:00 - [6] - Quote Keep splash damage. Greatly reduce splash damage. Thematically, its a slug hitting the ground really fast. With our drop suits, that shouldn't be a huge problem unless it hits us directly. Greatly increase charge time. 9-10 seconds. Again with theme, its a handheld platform out damaging a tank turret. If thats going to be the case, it would take a long time to build up the energy to accelerate a projectile fast enough to do the kind of damage it does. I'll take the alpha. Its the DPS that's a problem.
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 230	Posted - 2013.09.18 00:02:00 - [7] - Quote Forge Guns needs their range for Dropships.
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 927	Posted - 2013.09.18 00:07:00 - [8] - Quote Ryno Zamayid wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Tanks refire in .6 seconds. Forges, in a minimum refire in 2.5. Forge. Alpha strike. Large rails. DPS. Balance. Buff tanks survivability. That's all. What about the cost difference? The Ishukone F.G. costs 47,220 ISK 1663.2 Damage + the pro skill Proto Compressed Rail Gun costs 927,560 ISK 1798.7 Damage and no pro skill. Thank you all for chiming in guys. S what? Do we want to buff the price of AV for the sake that it deals damage like a tank can? Then we need to buff the prices of ARs to that of a small turret, cause they can preform similarly. Buff MD price to a large missile turret cause they are better then them? It makes no sense to do any of them. Buff tank survivability. Issue resolved.
Beeeees KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 239	Posted - 2013.09.18 01:05:00 - [9] - Quote Buff HAV armor plates by obscene amouts, slow them the **** down. Tanky builds are supposed to tank away a lot, they do not however.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 121	Posted - 2013.09.18 03:09:00 - [10] - Quote Mispost

Mortedeamor Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 259	Posted - 2013.09.18 10:50:00 - [11] - Quote my thoughts on the forge gun ccp i think you should expand the differences between the different types of forge gun 1 the assault variant keep the rate of fire but lower the range to 400m and under like the swarms..make them a closer end weapon and add a multiplier on the damage so the closer you are the more damage it does...(this will prevent tanks from just rush killing the forger because of the range difference as the closer the got the more hurt those shots would cause...which i feel if the hp between the tanks were balanced and assault forge were this way it would be more of a matter of skills, and lessa bout having op av 2 the breach give it back the dot sight and the zoom keep said range and everything else the same (THE BREACH FORGE SHOULD BE THE ONLY SNIPER FORGE) 3 lower the stnd forge range to be shorter than the breach but longer than the assault variant keep the rest the same 4 adjust tanks and durp ships hp abilities to match proto dmg (i also think the assault swarm should have more rockets than the ishukone and less dmg per individual rocket 12-18 rockets would be good..but much lower dmg and keep the ability to spread the shots)
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Top Men. 450	Posted - 2013.09.18 11:03:00 - [12] - Quote Ihlgigaris wrote: Totally agree. Forge Guns are great weapons, but their range is a little... much. Maybe if the range isn't going to be changed, at least have an optimal damage range, like after a certain point, the damage on the weapon drops off. I've been caught in too many maps where someone wielding a forge gun is perched in some technically inaccessible portion of the map, pounding away at our infantry. He can be countersniped, which is not necessarily the problem. The problem is the fact that the weapon is just as effective at 400 meters as it is at 40 meters. Forge gun max range is 300 Meters. Someone clearly is posting bollocks.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1630	Posted - 2013.09.18 12:44:00 - [13] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Tanks refire in .6 seconds. Forges, in a minimum refire in 2.5. Forge. Alpha strike. Large rails. DPS. Balance. Buff tanks survivability. That's all. this is all wrong^ tanks refire 1.8 seconds forges refire 1.875 forges DPS or alpha strikes rails mobility & range stop posting incorrect info.
Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis 198	Posted - 2013.09.18 12:54:00 - [14] - Quote How about the fact that Rail tanks are short sighted to semi blind because of installations and infantry not rendering. Meanwhile, said installation and/or infantry is firing away at the tank.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 365	Posted - 2013.09.18 15:14:00 - [15] - Quote actually the resistance tanking is where survivability is at if u can manage to get any tank at up to 40 resistance for armor or shielding u can pretty much do anything with out worry of av since they wont do much damage to u unless they gang up on u.... all that tanks need is the vehicle engineering skill to give 5% pg per level so tankers can fit better stuff on their tanks.
Enderr Wigginn Ancient Exiles 157	Posted - 2013.09.18 15:52:00 - [16] - Quote Ryno Zamayid wrote: I am a bit of a negative ned, But can you PLEASE readdress the forge gun... I forgot to write down the exact stats vs. the Tank rail turret, but it is outrageous. No I don't think they need to be nerfed, maybe the range because of those cheap forge snipers. And the invisible forge snipers the size of a pin head in your rail scope still wrecking your tanks and what not. A good 4 hits vs. shield tanks and you're... well tanked. Most don't loose a suit because they hide the entire time on top of some tower killing at ridiculous distances against infantry. And for god sakes, check out the cost of a proto forge gun vs. a proto rail gun and account for the damage difference BEFORE you start griping at me for not liking them folks. It's insane. either drop the range of the forge gun, or raise the cost to match the rail gun. After all the heavy forge gunner risks maybe 150k, the vehicle at least 800k, upwards to over a million. not to mention all the infantry that get one hit killed by something that was not meant to be a sniper weapon. Let me put this in a forge gunner perspective. I do not totally disagree with you, there is a balance issue between tank turrets and the forge gun. IMO I think the tank turret needs a damage buff and a price reduction and leave forges the way they are. Has far has distance, the tank has a greater fire distance then the forge, off the top of my head I think the tank is 599 and the forge is 499 and the tank is scoped so no distance nerf is needed. And has for the ohk kill from on top of a tower, it is not easy to ohk a running infantry, most of the time we are doing splash damage.
PADDEHATPIGEN BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 60	Posted - 2013.09.18 16:23:00 - [17] - Quote I dont have a problem with a heavy dude FULLY trained in the forge gun can take Down a proto tank in 30 sec. Thats what they are here to do... I do how ever mind ALOT that you can do the same with a millitia forge gun, it takes no SP Investment to use millitia, even a merc that started 1 min. ago can use it and do this. But its like this with ALL millitia weapons, they are ALL OP vs the protos of the same type... A millitia weapon should not even be able to ruin the paintjob on a full proto...
Severus Smith Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 340	Posted - 2013.09.18 18:29:00 - [18] - Quote Ihlgigaris wrote: Totally agree. Forge Guns are great weapons, but their range is a little... much. Maybe if the range isn't going to be changed, at least have an optimal damage range, like after a certain point, the damage on the weapon drops off. I've been caught in too many maps where someone wielding a forge gun is perched in some technically inaccessible portion of the map, pounding away at our infantry. He can be countersniped, which is not necessarily the problem. The problem is the fact that the weapon is just as effective at 400 meters as it is at 40 meters. Forge Guns should be one of the longerst ranged weapons in the game. They are railguns, and shoot over 3000 m/s! However I do think that you could tweak them slightly to keep them powerful AV weapons without nerfing their range. Give them zero splash damage. A tungsten slug moving at 3000 m/s is going to keep going into the dirt, not explode. It will also punch a hole through walls, crates, and even lamp posts before stopping! No splash. So if that Forge Sniper wants to kill some infantry then he'll need to hit them dead on. Which if he can do that at 400m up on a building without zoom then props to him, he deserves the kill. And this is coming from a Heavy player who, when he gets really angry at Proto AR users, pulls out an Assault Forge and kills everyone.
Ion Crush Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 85	Posted - 2013.09.18 18:44:00 - [19] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Ihlgigaris wrote: Totally agree. Forge Guns are great weapons, but their range is a little... much. Maybe if the range isn't going to be changed, at least have an optimal damage range, like after a certain point, the damage on the weapon drops off. I've been caught in too many maps where someone wielding a forge gun is perched in some technically inaccessible portion of the map, pounding away at our infantry. He can be countersniped, which is not necessarily the problem. The problem is the fact that the weapon is just as effective at 400 meters as it is at 40 meters. Forge Guns should be one of the longerst ranged weapons in the game. They are railguns, and shoot over 3000 m/s! However I do think that you could tweak them slightly to keep them powerful AV weapons without nerfing their range. Give them zero splash damage. A tungsten slug moving at 3000 m/s is going to keep going into the dirt, not explode. It will also punch a hole through walls, crates, and even lamp posts before stopping! No splash. So if that Forge Sniper wants to kill some infantry then he'll need to hit them dead on. Which if he can do that at 400m up on a building without zoom then props to him, he deserves the kill. And this is coming from a Heavy player who, when he gets really angry at Proto AR users, pulls out an Assault Forge and kills everyone. Lamp posts! I think your going to far now. I slug traveling at 3000 m/s is going to cause a ton of splash damage as it displaces the ground its traveling through. But for a mechanic in a game getting rid of the splash would probably keep me from doing so much forge sniping. I get a fair amount of direct hit on people who don't move. Assault forge guns should get a damage nerf. Currently there is no down side to the assualt, it fires fast and has great damage to boot. I don't mine that it doesn't a hold on the charge. I currently use them just because they do more damage than the normal. Also a price increase across the board for all AV weapons probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Not that increasing the price will balance the weapon.
Ryno Zamayid DIOS EX. Top Men. 2	Posted - 2013.09.19 00:10:00 - [20] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Ryno Zamayid wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Tanks refire in .6 seconds. Forges, in a minimum refire in 2.5. Forge. Alpha strike. Large rails. DPS. Balance. Buff tanks survivability. That's all. What about the cost difference? The Ishukone F.G. costs 47,220 ISK 1663.2 Damage + the pro skill Proto Compressed Rail Gun costs 927,560 ISK 1798.7 Damage and no pro skill. Thank you all for chiming in guys. S what? Do we want to buff the price of AV for the sake that it deals damage like a tank can? Then we need to buff the prices of ARs to that of a small turret, cause they can preform similarly. Buff MD price to a large missile turret cause they are better then them? It makes no sense to do any of them. Buff tank survivability. Issue resolved. Hah, That's exactly what I'm saying. If you think AR's need to have the price raised to equate blaster turrets? That's a bit short sighted, just because it's auto doesn't mean it's got the same tech, or materials or the mass. Like the GEK can AT ALL reflect the damage of a compressed neutron blaster? Man that's just outrageous. The F.G. however does very closely match the stats of the rail. So the price SHOULD reflect that. Or by all means, if it were possible I'd just strap 5 of those things to a rack and use them as a tank turret. Realistically they'd be about the same weight and cheaper than the rail and quadruple the damage and about the same ROF.



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