DUST Search - CCP what's going on with kb/m

Viktor Zokas wrote:

Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:

This whole "joystick emulation" thing is a myth anyway. If it would be an emulation, you wouldn't be able to turn so much faster than with sticks.

There is a maximum acceleration (which is very high), but aside from that, the mouse reacts as expected to all input. I can measure the distance it takes for my mouse to move for a 180 degrees turn, and if I move the mouse at half that distance at any speed, I will make a 90 degrees turn.

It just works, and the complaints are grossly exaggerated.

It's not quite as responsive as a PC game, but you have to consider that it's a 30 FPS console game with forced vsync, and chances are that your TV adds considerable input lag on top of it (which would explain why some people suffer more from it than others). It still blows stick controls out of the water (in the hands of a good player), with or without aim assist.

Where mouse fails is in situations where framerates suffer, and if you don't have a good eye for this, you might mistake it for poor mouse mechanics. I haven't played Chromosome, but from what I've gathered it sounds like it might have suffered less from framerate issues. So there's just a lot that comes together.

Actually it's not grossly exaggerated. The fact that kb/m isn't fully supported makes high speed mouses over sensitive to movement to the point you have to reduce the in-game sensitivity down to almost nothing. This isn't bad except the fact that when you do this, it reduces your turn speed below what stick users can do. So you either get reduced mobility, or you get what I like to call 'nervous mouse' when your looking down the ironsight attempting to precision aim and the mouse jiggles by itself from the slightest movement.
Other games get 'nervous mouse', but the fix to this is to have an added option in the sensitivity for ironsights alone, so you get two different options. Dust doesn't have this even though we've been hearing talk of it and lots of people asking for it.

Also, what game are you playing? I get 30 fps on a good day in pub matches, even then it fluctuates like mad. I have yet to ever get anywhere close to 30 fps in PC matches, I'll be lucky to get 15.


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Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 197	Posted - 2013.09.16 13:01:00 - [1] - Quote This whole "joystick emulation" thing is a myth anyway. If it would be an emulation, you wouldn't be able to turn so much faster than with sticks. There is a maximum acceleration (which is very high), but aside from that, the mouse reacts as expected to all input. I can measure the distance it takes for my mouse to move for a 180 degrees turn, and if I move the mouse at half that distance at any speed, I will make a 90 degrees turn. It just works, and the complaints are grossly exaggerated. It's not quite as responsive as a PC game, but you have to consider that it's a 30 FPS console game with forced vsync, and chances are that your TV adds considerable input lag on top of it (which would explain why some people suffer more from it than others). It still blows stick controls out of the water (in the hands of a good player), with or without aim assist. Where mouse fails is in situations where framerates suffer, and if you don't have a good eye for this, you might mistake it for poor mouse mechanics. I haven't played Chromosome, but from what I've gathered it sounds like it might have suffered less from framerate issues. So there's just a lot that comes together.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 199	Posted - 2013.09.16 16:12:00 - [2] - Quote Viktor Zokas wrote: Csikszent Mihalyi wrote: This whole "joystick emulation" thing is a myth anyway. If it would be an emulation, you wouldn't be able to turn so much faster than with sticks. There is a maximum acceleration (which is very high), but aside from that, the mouse reacts as expected to all input. I can measure the distance it takes for my mouse to move for a 180 degrees turn, and if I move the mouse at half that distance at any speed, I will make a 90 degrees turn. It just works, and the complaints are grossly exaggerated. It's not quite as responsive as a PC game, but you have to consider that it's a 30 FPS console game with forced vsync, and chances are that your TV adds considerable input lag on top of it (which would explain why some people suffer more from it than others). It still blows stick controls out of the water (in the hands of a good player), with or without aim assist. Where mouse fails is in situations where framerates suffer, and if you don't have a good eye for this, you might mistake it for poor mouse mechanics. I haven't played Chromosome, but from what I've gathered it sounds like it might have suffered less from framerate issues. So there's just a lot that comes together. Actually it's not grossly exaggerated. The fact that kb/m isn't fully supported makes high speed mouses over sensitive to movement to the point you have to reduce the in-game sensitivity down to almost nothing. This isn't bad except the fact that when you do this, it reduces your turn speed below what stick users can do. So you either get reduced mobility, or you get what I like to call 'nervous mouse' when your looking down the ironsight attempting to precision aim and the mouse jiggles by itself from the slightest movement. Other games get 'nervous mouse', but the fix to this is to have an added option in the sensitivity for ironsights alone, so you get two different options. Dust doesn't have this even though we've been hearing talk of it and lots of people asking for it. Also, what game are you playing? I get 30 fps on a good day in pub matches, even then it fluctuates like mad. I have yet to ever get anywhere close to 30 fps in PC matches, I'll be lucky to get 15. You are mixing up a few issues now. First of all, it's quite normal that you have to reduce sensitivity to the point that you get fine control... It is not true that this limits your turning speed. You only need to move your arm faster. :) That's normal for low sense gameplay, even on the PC. I regularly get a good workout in my arm when playing DUST. :P If you think you don't have to make this trade-off on the PC, I can only imagine that you are playing with acceleration, because then you can both fine aim with small mouse movements, as well as make quick turns with faster movements. Experienced players usually remove mouse acceleration because it's much less predictable, and it can even be difficult to get rid of the acceleration provided by the OS mouse drivers. As such I am really glad that DUST does not have any mouse acceleration, but perhaps it would be a good idea to add this option for those who are used to it. Regarding the "iron sight toggle", this is exactly how it worked in 1.3, only that the iron sight sensitivity was way too low. Now it was fixed to normal sensitivity and again, experienced players will probably prefer this (in combination with a low sensitivity), but perhaps it will be configurable already in the next release. Finally, I didn't say that I always get good performance, and that's exactly the point. You can't expect the mouse input to not suck when FPS dip below 30, let alone the atrocious numbers we get when things get really heated. I would love it if people would focus on this core issue, rather than the symptoms which cannot be fixed on their own (like bad mouse controls).