[P6] Conclusions


There are a number of conclusions to be drawn from this. The first is that on paper, the AR does not have notably superior DPS. A large number of weapons exceed it.


The next thing to note is that compared to most weapons, the AR is quite good at applying its damage. Not the de facto best, but it does it very well. This is caused by a combination of range and dispersion/recoil.


The third thing is that it doesnGÇÖt have a major disadvantage. This is in keeping with its status as a GÇÿjack of all tradesGÇÖ weapon.


Looking at the other statistics, only damage application is really that much better than other weapon systems. The raw damage isnGÇÖt exceptional, contrary to popular belief. ItGÇÖs the ARGÇÖs ability to apply that damage that makes it such an effective weapon.



Many think that the AR should be nerfed. I do not support this, at least not in the way that most expect. A raw DPS nerf here is not the way to go - instead, look at the damage application, as thatGÇÖs the area that the AR actually does better than other weapons at.
That includes range, dispersion, and recoil. In particular, I would highlight the recoil as something to be looked at. It doesnGÇÖt apply until halfway through the clip - this isnGÇÖt a good recoil mechanic, as this allows the DPS to be applied constantly throughout the clip.


If the AR is to be brought into line as a versatile weapon that doesnGÇÖt excel, then what it actually excels at should be looked at - in this case, itGÇÖs low recoil. The reason I highlight recoil as a potential solution is partially because excessive dispersion is a terrible mechanic - There is no real reason that you should miss if your aim is perfectly on target. The other reason I see recoil as a better solution is because itGÇÖs something that the weapon is lacking significantly in at the moment - simply tapping the trigger every odd second to completely negate the effects of recoil is not a good recoil mechanic.


TL;DR:
The one area the AR excels in is damage application. If the weapon is to be nerfed, then that is the area which should be looked at. It should also be noted that the ASCR is very similar to the AR.

If RL had any place in the video game the whole bunny hop thing would be pointless because keeping a weapon on target while jumping around would be nearly impossible.
As far as the OP goes your conclusions seem correct its not really the DPS that is so OP but more its ability to reliabally apply the DPS that makes it really stand out. There should be something done either to all other weapons so they hit more often or the AR needs to be nerfed in some manner.

The reason I think the AR should have higher fitting costs than most weapons is because it has no real drawbacks. Better overall performance should equal higher overall fitting costs.

Not that I want the AR to have SCR type fitting costs, The SCR needs those high fitting costs to keep it from being stupidly overused, lest people start calling it OP.

I'm so excited right now, guys ...

OK, first the maths:
1.17M total SP in Shotguns
1.45M total SP in SMGs
0 SP in ARs

Just ran my first few matches with a BPO AR.
Hits as hard and reliably up close any Shotgun or SMG!
Seriously, shotgunners pose no threat whatsoever.
The only thing that kills me is a better AR.

No BS. No troll. I don't even have to line up my shots.
Running it just like a shotgun -- maybe a little more Rambo than usual.
Zero risk and all the reward!
As added bonus, I can melt folks halfway across the map!

The only drawback ...
There is none. It's totally free. It totally rocks.

Not trolling your thread. This weapon -- which I can't believe I haven't tried yet -- is gonna send my stats through the roof!

[quote=D legendary hero]
we all had verying onclusions (i want to outright nerf its dps, range and amo capacity.)

It doesn't excel at DPS, contrary to popular belief, so nerfing that makes it a subpar damage dealer. If you nerf its range then perhaps it does lose some of its ability to apply damage but combined with a DPS nerf then it makes the weapon unviable. Particularly when you then go on and nerf the ammo economy. Oh, and I seem to recall you wanted significant recoil added.

Agree on like everything one thing that you forgot is the fitting cost of the AR against other guns.
AR has low fitting cost that alows you to tank out you outfitt

Firstly, on your alleged STD Caldari medium frame fit - That's impossible. Even using stable drop uplinks, maxed skills, and a number of other resource cuts you can't come remotely close to fitting that on a standard suit. Even on an advanced frame you'd struggle to get those stats, at least without having a ton of non-repping armour deadweight.

I'm glad to see that you've realised that such a multi-faceted and heavy nerf would break another weapon. However, I'd really like to encourage you to look at other things than simple raw DPS. As you should understand as an HMG user, other factors such as dispersion can significantly affect weaponry, and that's what I'd advocate for the assault rifle.

The problem with the burst and breach ARs is less that the fully automatic variant overshadows them and more that they're simply bad. The TAR is still good in the right hands - fulfilling its role quite well as a longer ranged variant.

The burst mode of fire is simply terrible, as it's a draconian way of moderating your firing so you have much less control over it, while you do less damage per shot. Overall, the fire rate is also less, as though the full RPM takes effect during the burst, there's a forced break between the bursts.
The breach suffers from low rate of fire troubles in its apparently CQC role as well as its DPS. Bear in mind that even were the DPS values to be swapped, the breach would still suffer as it's forced into ranges where it's out damaged, while not having any flexibility - the thing that the AR is meant to specialise in, as quaint as that sounds. This ends up meaning it's not tactically viable.

I reiterate - The AR, at least in its current incarnation, is meant to be a jack of all trades. That's not achieved by nerfing the damage output - the damage output is on par with other weapons of its type. The main reason it excels is because of its strong ability to apply that damage.

but if CCP just switched the regular assault rifle, to the breach assault rifle, people would just buy the breach, if you already have a duvolle you have the sp to go and buy a breach? i'm guessing this is not what you meant by switching the DPS, but could you please clarify. (otherwise it is almost the same assault rifle with a different name.)

Roll back the 10% weapon buff that came in uprising.

Bring back old aim assist, pre hotfix.

Buff dispersion and recoil on everything.

Bam. Fished.

IMO CCP needs to release other weapon variants to compete with the AR instead of fidgeting with numbers right now. I know it's not feasible at the moment, but it would make more sense to release the variants then start giving each weapon an according niche.

Right now you're not left with many options in terms of "Assault" weapons. It's either the AR or the ScR. Even the variants of those are mostly crap (except TAC and Assault ScR). I'm an AR user and honestly don't care what they do with the weapon because people will still complain and whine on the forums about every little thing that kills them. ARs will still reign even if they nerf them and I bet you the complaints will go from "Nerf the AR!" to "Im still dying! Nerf it again!"

'D,' it is clear you have an agenda. What weapon do you specialize in?
If you as me, at the rate things are getting nerfed, every weapon may be quite useless. My problem is that CCP seems to be resorting to nerfing. Yet, as it has proven time and time again, nerfing just makes another weapon 'OP,' so to speak.

... in fairness i say any weapon you use is a noob weapon... im not bias

YEAH CCP. listhen to the cry babys, make the full auto AR's just as useless as you did whit the rest of the AR's.

STOP NERFING MY WAEPONS...

FIX the tactial AR's, make it able to hit something, and give it back its 36 round mag. there was never a problem whit this weapon other then the ROF could be abused whit modded controllers and programeble keybords, but still you had to ruin it whit extreme kick, extreme dispersion, and lowewr the clip sice to 18 rounds...
FIX the breach AR's, they are utterly USELESS, you need to fire 2 full clips into someone to kill them now.
FIX the burst AR's this is even worse, its just as hard to hit anything whit this rifle as it is whit the tac AR's and on top of that it does damagd like the breach AR's, THAT SUCKS...

Modded controllers can also be used whit the SCR and it makes it an OP BEAST, try it...
I can get of quite a few shots before it overheats, as the overheat mecanism is based on time and NOT rounds fired.

You even stated that both the SCR and the ASCR dont have recoil, dont have alot of dispersion, they have higher dps, and more rounds in a clip, but you still want to nerf the AR's.

WTF.

Honestly the burst rifle needs its 7 rounds burst back instead of the 3 round burst it was nerfed to.

So if it is proto, it is still noob? Come on, each weapon is useful for one role or another, it isn't worth worrying about the noobs complaining about boundless weapons. They are OP more because of skill or SP than anything else.

i think ive the noticed galente research facility map made wearing full proto useless..
so many ambush points..
on that map and there r ambush points above the ambush points...

killzones and such....

any ways i just say somthing about nerfing an officer weapon?

that is one of the worst ideas i have ever heard...

i think shotgun needs a better grouping of the shots...

but still its very effective in cqc...

just cant do hardly anything at range...

but i think there should be a new variant that gets its damage decreased for better range...

and from multiple battles ive been in lately the imperial scrambler rifle has to be one of the most devastating weapons right now

it destroys in cqc and is very powerful against armor and such...

when fitted properly..

like on an amarr suit..

with the overheat reduction skill maxed it can shoot rapidly for a very long time...

without worry of overheat...

it might be more powerful than the tac ar before it was nerfed...


but aside from that 1.4 in general have given the new players a better chance against the proto bears...and i kinda think it should stay this way...

ive pretty much tried every weapon on here except nova knives...

and i dont mind getting killed while in a free default mlt suit...

im sure the proto bears hate getting killed by everything because they want to be invincible on the game.

and thats all this really comes down to is a person losing proto gear to a better skilled player with less total sp..

thats all it really involves now...

so i find all the nerf ar or certain gun threads quite stupid..

i think im just gonna leave this dum stuff to the noob brigade... or whatever they call themselves now...

and for some actual in game feed back: blaster turrets still seem to have some hit detection problems currently when going against infantry....

... in fairness i say any weapon you use is a noob weapon... im not bias