DUST Search - CCP known weakness.

Zero Notion wrote:

Michael Arck wrote:

Zero Notion wrote:

Quote:

Does it really hinder or does the user hinder his own experience?

Both? Lol. What a silly question. Look at what happened with AA - going back and forth as they attempt to tweak the system. Many liked the new system. Many hated it. It's the transitioning of mechanics and how they develop it that impacts your play style. Obviously that is out of our control. The philosophy of 'Adapt or die' is an absurd one in this context, as having to consistently try and adapt to core mechanics being altered can lead to quite a bit of frustration of players parts.

Not a silly question at all. For I was indifferent to the changes. Before the tweak, I worked on adjusting to the new dynamic. Post tweak, I'm going back to what I know. It's not uncommon for a user to enjoy the experience he can overlook the small because they see the greater picture. So it's really not absurd.

Honestly, CCP is small and this is their first foray into an FPS title. That should be recognized by the player on his own volition but it seems that the majority constantly fails to have this insight.

It should be impressive that the uproar caused an extended downtime. That means we are impacting the gameplay. And it helps to know as well that they stated that this will take a huge undertaking. CCP is relying on our feedback to better this game.

I do understand that players get frustrated. But once we have cooled our emotions, we need to take an mature look at this situation and see how we can better it. The changes should be expected. It's 1.4, how Dust is the same when it was "buy a mercenary pack to play"? Much has changed. Why are we still reacting so negatively instead of constructively?

If this was year 9 of this project and CCP had mass manpower, plus if this was their 3rd FPS title, I can definitely see what you're saying.

It's a year plus into the game and they're re-working entire core systems. Vehicles. Dropsuits. Aiming. Hitboxes. Smoothing out frame rates. Kb/M and DS3 balance. Whether we are impacting changes or not isn't relative to what I'm discussing. However, that is always a concern, considering the individuals they are listening to now may not be playing in a year or two from now. A new breed of players may come and try it out who have different opinions on how the game 'should work'. Will they listen to them, too? Will they always attempt to adapt to the 'loudest majority' or will they observe impartial data that they have collected? How do they define the 'fun' factor?

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Fire9er Greko Mango and Friends 49	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:19:00 - [1] - Quote They do not play their updates before they release it. Other than that one tiny thing they provide us with one hell of a free to play shooter. I kinda get mad when people say they are idiots. Or belittle them. Their track record is good for developing overtime! If they don't want a quality assurance team why should they have one anyway don't half of you come here and voice your opinion anyway? so the real question is would you prefer them to be proactive or reactive?
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1063	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:21:00 - [2] - Quote Bamm said it best "We are the testers". They rely on our feedback as the recent hotfix should show
Fire9er Greko Mango and Friends 49	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:22:00 - [3] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Bamm said it best "We are the testers". They rely on our feedback as the recent hotfix should show Obviously he says it best and that's how CCP has always done it so why do you guys expect it to be any different???
Gods Architect SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 433	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:23:00 - [4] - Quote Eve was the same way. Give it time
Fire9er Greko Mango and Friends 49	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:25:00 - [5] - Quote Gods Architect wrote: Eve was the same way. Give it time TY! I am just asking people to get their barrings on the team that's developing this game. I love to see the input but acting like it hurts your feelings is just mind boggling to me.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1063	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:28:00 - [6] - Quote Fire9er Greko wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Bamm said it best "We are the testers". They rely on our feedback as the recent hotfix should show Obviously he says it best and that's how CCP has always done it so why do you guys expect it to be any different??? Well I take it that you mean the majority of the community. Not putting some halo over my head cause I know the road is not without the ups and downs, but I got faith in the project. I support CCP. It seems most wants an overnight product. To build this, its going to take work from both sides. From the developers and from the community, whose voices can alter what Dust can become. I just wished more people understood that and see that we are all working together to create better the experience.
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 226	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:29:00 - [7] - Quote I would argue that Eve had a lot more content available at the time and while the bugs and issues might have been frustrating, you were able to branch out to some degree and try something entirely different (PvE, mining, exploring, whatever). Here? Not so much - it's far more frustrating because the content is to fight. Fight, fight, fight, fight. Yes, it's an FPS, but when the bugs and development are hindering your ability to do the only activity available to you, it becomes far more frustrating. There's no, "Oh, well, I guess I can go mine. Maybe explore this system here. Perhaps do some missions over there."
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1065	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:30:00 - [8] - Quote Zero Notion wrote: I would argue that Eve had a lot more content available at the time and while the bugs and issues might have been frustrating, you were able to branch out to some degree and try something entirely different (PvE, mining, exploring, whatever). Here? Not so much - it's far more frustrating because the content is to fight. Fight, fight, fight, fight. Yes, it's an FPS, but when the bugs and development are hindering your ability to do the only activity available to you, it becomes far more frustrating. There's no, "Oh, well, I guess I can go mine. Maybe explore this system here. Perhaps do some missions over there." Does it really hinder or does the user hinder his own experience?
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 226	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:33:00 - [9] - Quote Quote: Does it really hinder or does the user hinder his own experience? Both? Lol. What a silly question. Look at what happened with AA - going back and forth as they attempt to tweak the system. Many liked the new system. Many hated it. It's the transitioning of mechanics and how they develop it that impacts your play style. Obviously that is out of our control. The philosophy of 'Adapt or die' is an absurd one in this context, as having to consistently try and adapt to core mechanics being altered can lead to quite a bit of frustration of players parts.
Fire9er Greko Mango and Friends 50	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:33:00 - [10] - Quote Zero Notion wrote: I would argue that Eve had a lot more content available at the time and while the bugs and issues might have been frustrating, you were able to branch out to some degree and try something entirely different (PvE, mining, exploring, whatever). Here? Not so much - it's far more frustrating because the content is to fight. Fight, fight, fight, fight. Yes, it's an FPS, but when the bugs and development are hindering your ability to do the only activity available to you, it becomes far more frustrating. There's no, "Oh, well, I guess I can go mine. Maybe explore this system here. Perhaps do some missions over there." You do have a point and an excellent one at that maybe my lack of understanding comes from games that require a massive amount of patience such as FF. So to me as long as I am not stuck in an unwinnable scenario at the end of the game I am happy. though yay newberries fail me so many times I still have that competitive side.

Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1065	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:47:00 - [11] - Quote Zero Notion wrote: Quote: Does it really hinder or does the user hinder his own experience? Both? Lol. What a silly question. Look at what happened with AA - going back and forth as they attempt to tweak the system. Many liked the new system. Many hated it. It's the transitioning of mechanics and how they develop it that impacts your play style. Obviously that is out of our control. The philosophy of 'Adapt or die' is an absurd one in this context, as having to consistently try and adapt to core mechanics being altered can lead to quite a bit of frustration of players parts. Not a silly question at all. For I was indifferent to the changes. Before the tweak, I worked on adjusting to the new dynamic. Post tweak, I'm going back to what I know. It's not uncommon for a user to enjoy the experience he can overlook the small because they see the greater picture. So it's really not absurd. Honestly, CCP is small and this is their first foray into an FPS title. That should be recognized by the player on his own volition but it seems that the majority constantly fails to have this insight. It should be impressive that the uproar caused an extended downtime. That means we are impacting the gameplay. And it helps to know as well that they stated that this will take a huge undertaking. CCP is relying on our feedback to better this game. I do understand that players get frustrated. But once we have cooled our emotions, we need to take an mature look at this situation and see how we can better it. The changes should be expected. It's 1.4, how Dust is the same when it was "buy a mercenary pack to play"? Much has changed. Why are we still reacting so negatively instead of constructively? If this was year 9 of this project and CCP had mass manpower, plus if this was their 3rd FPS title, I can definitely see what you're saying.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1675	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:48:00 - [12] - Quote CCPs #1 Weakness: Facts
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 226	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:53:00 - [13] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Zero Notion wrote: Quote: Does it really hinder or does the user hinder his own experience? Both? Lol. What a silly question. Look at what happened with AA - going back and forth as they attempt to tweak the system. Many liked the new system. Many hated it. It's the transitioning of mechanics and how they develop it that impacts your play style. Obviously that is out of our control. The philosophy of 'Adapt or die' is an absurd one in this context, as having to consistently try and adapt to core mechanics being altered can lead to quite a bit of frustration of players parts. Not a silly question at all. For I was indifferent to the changes. Before the tweak, I worked on adjusting to the new dynamic. Post tweak, I'm going back to what I know. It's not uncommon for a user to enjoy the experience he can overlook the small because they see the greater picture. So it's really not absurd. Honestly, CCP is small and this is their first foray into an FPS title. That should be recognized by the player on his own volition but it seems that the majority constantly fails to have this insight. It should be impressive that the uproar caused an extended downtime. That means we are impacting the gameplay. And it helps to know as well that they stated that this will take a huge undertaking. CCP is relying on our feedback to better this game. I do understand that players get frustrated. But once we have cooled our emotions, we need to take an mature look at this situation and see how we can better it. The changes should be expected. It's 1.4, how Dust is the same when it was "buy a mercenary pack to play"? Much has changed. Why are we still reacting so negatively instead of constructively? If this was year 9 of this project and CCP had mass manpower, plus if this was their 3rd FPS title, I can definitely see what you're saying. It's a year plus into the game and they're re-working entire core systems. Vehicles. Dropsuits. Aiming. Hitboxes. Smoothing out frame rates. Kb/M and DS3 balance. Whether we are impacting changes or not isn't relative to what I'm discussing. However, that is always a concern, considering the individuals they are listening to now may not be playing in a year or two from now. A new breed of players may come and try it out who have different opinions on how the game 'should work'. Will they listen to them, too? Will they always attempt to adapt to the 'loudest majority' or will they observe impartial data that they have collected? How do they define the 'fun' factor?
Cosgar ParagonX 5260	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:56:00 - [14] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: CCPs #1 Weakness: Core Mechanics FTFY EVE had just around the same core gameplay issues for years until they managed to get it right.
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 226	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:57:00 - [15] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: CCPs #1 Weakness: Core Mechanics FTFY EVE had just around the same core gameplay issues for years until they managed to get it right. :( This makes me sad.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1065	Posted - 2013.09.15 04:58:00 - [16] - Quote Zero Notion wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Zero Notion wrote: Quote: Does it really hinder or does the user hinder his own experience? Both? Lol. What a silly question. Look at what happened with AA - going back and forth as they attempt to tweak the system. Many liked the new system. Many hated it. It's the transitioning of mechanics and how they develop it that impacts your play style. Obviously that is out of our control. The philosophy of 'Adapt or die' is an absurd one in this context, as having to consistently try and adapt to core mechanics being altered can lead to quite a bit of frustration of players parts. Not a silly question at all. For I was indifferent to the changes. Before the tweak, I worked on adjusting to the new dynamic. Post tweak, I'm going back to what I know. It's not uncommon for a user to enjoy the experience he can overlook the small because they see the greater picture. So it's really not absurd. Honestly, CCP is small and this is their first foray into an FPS title. That should be recognized by the player on his own volition but it seems that the majority constantly fails to have this insight. It should be impressive that the uproar caused an extended downtime. That means we are impacting the gameplay. And it helps to know as well that they stated that this will take a huge undertaking. CCP is relying on our feedback to better this game. I do understand that players get frustrated. But once we have cooled our emotions, we need to take an mature look at this situation and see how we can better it. The changes should be expected. It's 1.4, how Dust is the same when it was "buy a mercenary pack to play"? Much has changed. Why are we still reacting so negatively instead of constructively? If this was year 9 of this project and CCP had mass manpower, plus if this was their 3rd FPS title, I can definitely see what you're saying. It's a year plus into the game and they're re-working entire core systems. Vehicles. Dropsuits. Aiming. Hitboxes. Smoothing out frame rates. Kb/M and DS3 balance. Whether we are impacting changes or not isn't relative to what I'm discussing. However, that is always a concern, considering the individuals they are listening to now may not be playing in a year or two from now. A new breed of players may come and try it out who have different opinions on how the game 'should work'. Will they listen to them, too? Will they always attempt to adapt to the 'loudest majority' or will they observe impartial data that they have collected? How do they define the 'fun' factor? Lol what do you mean "whether we are or not". The recent hot fix shows such. The problem with your argument is that you're not open to any other opinions besides your own. This is why we meet the dead end constantly on these forums. I don't know, I was a noob and I stuck it out. I took a break and came back, because I appreciated the big picture. Yes, I do recognize the majority might not have my faith. Shrugs. I had fun before and I'm still having fun.
Grief PK D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass 73	Posted - 2013.09.15 05:00:00 - [17] - Quote Zero Notion wrote: I would argue that Eve had a lot more content available at the time and while the bugs and issues might have been frustrating, you were able to branch out to some degree and try something entirely different (PvE, mining, exploring, whatever). Here? Not so much - it's far more frustrating because the content is to fight. Fight, fight, fight, fight. Yes, it's an FPS, but when the bugs and development are hindering your ability to do the only activity available to you, it becomes far more frustrating. There's no, "Oh, well, I guess I can go mine. Maybe explore this system here. Perhaps do some missions over there." +10 million
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 228	Posted - 2013.09.15 05:08:00 - [18] - Quote I'm quite open to other opinions, but being open to an opinion does not mean I am going to agree with it. I see what you are saying and I have a fair optimism for what the game can be. It's like if you were playing chess. One day, the game is the same game you have always known it to be. The next day, the rules have suddenly changed and the pieces on the board don't have the same movement capability. Frustrated, but enjoying the game itself, you re-adjust your tactics. Ten days later, the game has changed again. Still, you're loyal to the game and attempt to tactically change once more and re-learn the entire process over again. However, some players of this game cry out that the Queens movement on the board is "OP" and clearly unfair. You disagree with it but alas, the mechanics sway into their favor. Perhaps they were right. Perhaps you were. How do we as players have the ability to gauge the metric in which they decide that something is "OP" or not? It's clear that many players loved the new AA pre-hotfix. It's clear some despised it. I think it was a fair even split (on the forums, anyway, and those here are a minority that speak out). My problem? There is only one piece of content in the game and there is far less for players to transition to when changes are made. There's no PvE, there's no market or industry, the integration with Eve is shallow at best, ISK in Dust has only a subjective relative value to every player, PC districts are more akin to trophies and ISK generators, Corporations are limited in what they can 'do' in the game. Sure, I love the idea of what Dust is going to be - if it gets there. I love the concept of a complex and intricate real time war simulation. They're doing something 'new' and taking it further but every update seems to only introduce more issues, more re-tuning of the same systems they just updated without much reprieve or forewarning on how the mechanics are going to 'play out'. TLDR; Need content.
Cosgar ParagonX 5263	Posted - 2013.09.15 05:10:00 - [19] - Quote Zero Notion wrote: Cosgar wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: CCPs #1 Weakness: Core Mechanics FTFY EVE had just around the same core gameplay issues for years until they managed to get it right. :( This makes me sad. I'm talking more about balancing than anything else. Things are either super OP when the come out or severely UP. I still remember when Minmatar turrets got access to different ammo types. Biggest butthurt on the forums since the TAC AR insanity. Dust's biggest issue is that the game doesn't run at 60 FPS. It made aiming stupidly bad in 1.0 while scouts and strafing payed the biggest price. Sure, the game looks pretty but I'd rather see a priority over functionality than aesthetics.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1070	Posted - 2013.09.15 05:11:00 - [20] - Quote Great discussion. Thanks for your opinions and feedback. (Not being sarcastic, did read)



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