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Hannari's Guide to Scanning

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Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1276	Posted - 2013.09.14 23:43:00 - [1] - Quote Pull up a bar stool recruit. I've been working up some numbers on the old NeoCom here about passive and active scanning and I'd like to pass them on to you so you can stop losing so many clones. Those things don't grow on trees you know. Probably because we have so few trees to check. Anyway, on with the lesson. First, passive scanning is about picking up the electronic noise all the plasma generators, shield emitters, music players and fusion reactors your suits are giving off. You want your profile to be as small as possible and you want your passive detectors to pick up the quietest signal possible. Simply put, lower is better for both and it's a race to the bottom between you and the enemy. Second, passive scanning is about the short range sensors on your suit. Those are normally 10 meters to just over 30 for a fully trained Gallente Scout with prototype sensors. Your eyes are still important for spotting the enemy and your weapon's sensors will also report an enemy at great range if pointed directly at them. With the current generation of suits there are five main classes you need to think about: light frame, medium frame, heavy frame, scout and logistics. Scouts are special because they can reduce their own noise through training. Logistics have a better passive detection than the rest of the medium frames so they are naturally hidden from them. So, what does this mean to you. The simplest case is you are busy hacking a terminal that is out in the open. If someone comes up to you and has a lower profile than you are sensitive to then they'll walk up and put a nova knife in your brain. Ouch. If you detect them when they get into range you'll have a chance to evade and shoot them in the face. The goal is to optimize the number of cases where you shoot them in the face. Instead of presenting a table with lots of fancy numbers and odd mixes of skill levels and modules I have some basic rules to refer to. I figure any halfway smart scout will train up profile dampening at the same time they are leveling up so my numbers have them at equal levels. I also don't talk about basic light suits much. Just more data to crunch. Also, my numbers may have errors. I will not bite if you can prove they are wrong. I still have that spoon from our last discussion and may use that if catch me on a bad day though. On to the important stuff. For passive scanning: Rule zero: You are not invisible. If they use their eyes you will be spotted. Rule number 1: If you are a scout you will not appear on passive sensors to every other suit class even if they have trained Precision Enhancement 5. Well, a logistics with enhancement 5 might spot an untrained light suit. I don't know if you are detected if the profile and the sensor matches exactly. In every other case they have to use enhancement modules to detect you unless they have an active scanner or are looking right at you. You are a ghost in a fight with other ghosts. Rule number 2: If you are a logistics all other medium and heavier suits will not see you on passive scan unless they have Precision Enhancement 5. One skill level in Profile Dampening will counter that. Train it. Now. Done yet? Rule number 3: A medium frame runs into a room without checking to either side. What does he see on his scanner if he doesn't turn around? Unless he has precision enhancement to 5 or there are heavies hiding there he won't see a thing. The entire squad of mediums, logistics and scouts will take turn spanking you. Seriously, your passive scanners are just about useless. Train to 5, which is a drag, or at least to 1 and sacrifice one slot for a basic precision enhancer to at least see other assaults and logistics. Rule number 4: Heavies only see other suits if they are looking right at them. You can fix this with modules but that would be stupid. Just tape a scout to your helmet and let him look around for you. Scouts are small and weak so one roll of duct tape should work. Now for active scanners: Rule number 5: The standard grade scanners won't pick up any light suit but will find anybody else other than a medium frame with profile dampening skill 5. Even a basic dampener module will fix this except for heavies which need two of the basic or one complex, but that's dumb. Rule number 6: The advanced grade scanners find light frames that don't have any skill in dampening. A scout can fit a basic dampener and disappear. Medium frames need either two basic dampeners or one complex to hide. This is a nice compromise for most operations. Rule number 7: For a scout to hide from the 28 dB prototype scanners you need at least scout level 3, dampening level 3 and one enhanced dampener. A level 1 scout needs three basic dampeners to do that same thing. No scout, no matter what skills they have, can hide from the 28 dB scanner without a module. With high skill and at least two modules mediums and even a heavy could disappear but it would a very special fit. Can a heavy fit three complex dampeners? I don't know. Rule number 8: To hide from the Duvolle Focused Active Scanner 15 dB you need to have scout 5, dampening 5 and two complex dampeners. Unless you are fighting a pack of rabid Ninja assassins then I wouldn't worry too much about carrying one. No other suit has any chance of hiding from this scanner.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1276	Posted - 2013.09.14 23:57:00 - [2] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Good article. One tip: spinning around while using your active scanner, if done right (I'm not sure what exactly the condition is, you just have to get a feel for it) will let you scan 360 degrees instead of 60 or 30. Ah, yes, the dance of the flashlight. This is an important technique. Thanks!
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1282	Posted - 2013.09.15 15:04:00 - [3] - Quote I think I should talk about the messages you see when you are scanned. I've seen some confusion in other threads. I know YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED means you were detected. I ran several contracts yesterday in a fit that should avoid advanced scanners but never saw the message about not being detected. You go looking for trouble and you can't find it. I'll try again today but if anybody can post the message I'd appreciate it. If anybody has information about the accuracy message the person doing the scanning sees I'd appreciate that too. At level 3 scanning I only remember seeing the 'no error' message.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1282	Posted - 2013.09.15 17:14:00 - [4] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: If you "dodge" a scan, you get a big message like "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED" but it says "SCAN PREVENTED" instead, it's really very clear. If someone dodges your scan, instead of "NO MARGIN OF ERROR" you get "SOME MARGIN OF ERROR". Thank you. Exactly what I was looking for.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1284	Posted - 2013.09.15 19:54:00 - [5] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Did you test using a basic profile dampener on a medium suit to avoid detection from standard scanners? I know the numbers are supposed to add up. The scan profile should be 45 dB and the scan precision should be 46 dB, but when I tested this for a few days I never managed to avoid a scan. Maybe everyone is using advanced scanners because they have too much CPU/PG.... I have medium frame with level 1 dampening and basic being: 50 -> 49 -> 41.5 so it should work. I finally have a few hours to do some more testing so I'll add a suit for that.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1287	Posted - 2013.09.15 22:58:00 - [6] - Quote A few hours of matches and nobody has scanned me. Either my fit is hiding and I'm not seeing a message or nobody has scanners out, which I find hard to believe.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1288	Posted - 2013.09.16 02:09:00 - [7] - Quote Iviin'yc Skirata wrote: Thanks a lot Hannari. I am a Nova Knifer so this is very helpful. As well the only equipment i'll go into probably is Scanning so this is very helpful. Glad I could help. I hope to update it as more information becomes available. I'm actively testing and upgrading my skills and modules in this area right now.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1340	Posted - 2013.09.19 01:06:00 - [8] - Quote Bojo and I managed to get some alone time together and tested scanning a bit. Hey, it was just testing. There was no funny business going on. Anyway, changes worth mentioning... Confirmed that your passive profile is not affected by firing your weapon, sprinting or crouching. You can also be passively scanned through walls and terrain. When you are not in a vehicle the first ring for your TACNET display is at 20 meters, the second at 65 m and the maximum range is 100 m. I haven't tested vehicles yet. Visual range is 30 degrees off axis to about the first tick mark past the second ring or around 80 m. Detection fades out gradually but pointing your weapon will light up the enemy when beyond visual. Something most people already new but recording it here for the rookies. We confirmed detection and ranges based on our fits and didn't find any discrepancies from what was calculated or presented before. I still have some open questions on detection by depots and CRUs, what happens when profile and sensitivity is exactly the same, and anything related to vehicles.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1344	Posted - 2013.09.19 05:07:00 - [9] - Quote Remembered one test: active scanners do not make you appear on the enemy TACNET. I think this was intended at one point.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1359	Posted - 2013.09.19 14:01:00 - [10] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Man... I need to get me an active scanner... Yes. Yes, you do. Aim for the advanced though. I don't think the basic is worth it.

Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1361	Posted - 2013.09.19 15:10:00 - [11] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I am getting confused without the basic numbers. Here they are from Chankk SaotomeGÇÖs guide. The original post is at the limit for text. Once I'm confident in my own computations I may head over to the EVE wiki and setup the guide there along with a full chart of scan profiles. I have a pilot so that works for me but other guide publishers may not have the same option. The wiki would be nice since others can add and edit.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1387	Posted - 2013.09.20 22:07:00 - [12] - Quote Roldrage wrote: If I have profile dampening lvl5 and an adv dampener can I avoid adv scanners? With your skill and one advanced dampener and to beat a 36 dB scanner: Frame: Skill Only / +1 ADV Damp Light: 40.5 / 31.5 YES Medium: 45 / 35 YES Heavy: 58.5 / 45.5 NO formula might be slightly off, can't confirm through in-game client
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1425	Posted - 2013.09.25 13:03:00 - [13] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Is there a channel for those interested in furthering our scanning knowledge? I have my profile dampeners to proto and I was getting scanned in a suit that I thought would be able to dodge the 28dB scanners - according to the Dust Fitting Tool I'm at 27dB with a medium frame and complex+enhanced dampeners. When I switched to two complexes, I was able to dodge the scans, so I don't think a Duvolle Focused was being used. I'd like to test this definitely if anyone has time to queue sync this Saturday and has proto scanners unlocked. I'm also curious as to whether one enhanced dampener with Lvl 5 in the skill (36dB for medium suits) will allow you to dodge the 36dB advanced scanner. We can test that too :) Please post your results here with all factors involved so I can compare to my numbers.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1429	Posted - 2013.09.25 15:08:00 - [14] - Quote Stile451 wrote: I was looking through the market yesterday and it seems that CCP has changed the logistics suit to have the same profile and precision of assault and medium suits. I just spot checked some Basic, Assault and Logistics suits. Basic and Assault are still 50/55 and Logistics still 50/50. You had me concerned.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1518	Posted - 2013.09.29 15:26:00 - [15] - Quote Stile451 wrote: Last build if you didn't have a squad then every unsquadded player on your team was considered to be your squad(just no orbitals). Whether this remains the same I have no idea. I think this is another buggy feature, like uplinks being squad only but not really. Yesterday I spent some time as a lone wolf and suddenly saw a pack of reds appear on my TACNET, pulsing from someone else's scan.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 3341	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:08:00 - [16] - Quote Resurrected from the dead. Guess I'll have to write a new version for 1.8. Adapt or Die // Republic Lance Commander // @ReesNoturana

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