DUST Search - THE vehicle crisis: 4 solutions

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

D legendary hero wrote:

solution 1: debit vs credit
when a teammate piloting your vehicle causes it to blow up, while he is in it, or after you takes control and gets out; your ISK wallet is debited the exact amount and aurum (if used) woth of the vehicle.

the teammate is credited the amount to his account and if he doesn't have the funds, he goes negative. either way, the vehicle owner gets debited the full amount immediately upon the vehicles destruction.

Jesus Christ this is such an awful idea I don't know what to say. What happens here is tankers encourage randoms to get in their tank, then don't give a damn when they lose it because they jump out and oh hey, that blueberry just paid the price for it.
This is monumentally stupid. Do you really think it's a good idea for some random new player to be billed literally millions of isk because he unknowingly hopped into a turret? What if they don't have aurum and it's an aurum tank?

Just add vehicle locks. Done. There's no need for something this... insane.

Quote:

solution 2: use the "square button"
the square button has no function on vehicles at the moment. Assigning a 'kick crew' action to that button that either removes all occupants could help you remove idoits who steal allied vehicles just to troll and blow it up.

Not a terrible idea, but there's huge potential for griefing here. What about people using dropships just to eject people far out in the redline?
Also, nobody is 'stealing allied vehicles just to troll it and blow it up'. 99% of the time that's a random blueberry who hopped in a tank and is surprised because they actually have control.

Quote:

solution 3: long distance recall
basically, from anywhere your vehicle is on the map you can recall it. simply, press the 'down d-pad' button (ps3 controler) then on the map select your vehicle. regardless of who's in it, it gets recalled. leaving them exposed, or killing them (ones they see it turn blue its time to get out].

Recalling even when there are people in it is fine. Killing them because they're in it when it's recalled is not fine and is stupid. Ejecting them to recall is definitely fine and is a good idea.

Ranged recall is silly unless it's stopped by damage to the tank or someone attempting to hack it.

Quote:

solution 4: simple economics

reduce the price of LAVs to that of dropsuits of equivelant levels.
reduce the price of dropships to that of ADV and proto suits
reduce the price of tanks to that of dropships currently
make the prices of vehicle turrets and mods to dropsuits mods.

this will help diminish the loss of teammates causing you to loss vehicles.
teammates can and will blow up your vehicles

implementing anyone of these solutions will help either outright resolve this issue and more OR at least remedy a portion of the problem.

I agree that the costs are too high. However, if cutting them significantly was accompanied by a significant buff, you will get tank spam, as it becomes cost-effective to spam them plenty of the time to get bucket loads of kills.

Teammates are not the ones to blame for every single vehicle loss. If a blueberry caused you a vehicle loss because you couldn't recall your tank, you were trying to recall it under fire, which shouldn't be doable anyway.
I'm sure someone will whine at me about infantry being able to swap dropsuits at supply depots whilst under fire, but I disagree with that as well. Also, infantry die much quicker than tanks.

A couple of your suggestions have some merit. But billing your teammates for your tanks? **** no.

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D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 1022	Posted - 2013.09.14 05:28:00 - [1] - Quote I know vehicles are getting a work over in 1.5 but there are somethings no amount of "working over can fix". when teammates take your vehicles and destroy them. Yes, teammates are a vehicles worst enemy. on several ocasions I lost vehicles due to stupid teammates. In fact, i just lost a logistics dropship worth 700K not due to AV, but because i tried to call it back, teammates got in it and flew it into a biulding then scrapped it across the map till it exploded killing everyone on board. If this is not fixed I'm leaving the game. there is no point to having a team based game with vehicles that cost rediculous amount of money if as soon as you let someone in they have as much control as you do. I mean if they don't have any vehile operation skills why do they get to fly my ship? so, the solutions: debit vs credit when a teammate piloting your vehicle causes it to blow up, while he is in it, or after you takes control and gets out; your ISK wallet is debited the exact amount and aurum (if used) woth of the vehicle. the teammate is credited the amount to his account and if he doesn't have the funds, he goes negative. either way, the vehicle owner gets debited the full amount immediately upon the vehicles destruction. use the "square button" the square button has no function on vehicles at the moment. Assigning a 'kick crew' action to that button that either removes all occupants could help you remove idoits who steal allied vehicles just to troll and blow it up. long distance recall basically, from anywhere your vehicle is on the map you can recall it. simply, press the 'down d-pad' button (ps3 controler) then on the map select your vehicle. regardless of who's in it, it gets recalled. leaving them exposed, or killing them (ones they see it turn blue its time to get out]. [b] simple economics reduce the price of LAVs to that of dropsuits of equivelant levels. reduce the price of dropships to that of ADV and proto suits reduce the price of tanks to that of dropships currently make the prices of vehicle turrets and mods to dropsuits mods. this will help diminish the loss of teammates causing you to loss vehicles. let's face it, AV is super powered, and its rare to get over 300k in a single match unless you kill 20 proto suits without dying and blow up 5 tanks, in which case you are quite boss. but realistically, you net loss everytime you run a vehicle and it gets blown up. Even in PC these tanks run over 2millionISK, and you will what perhaps 1million. if you loss 2 tanks, that PC battle was profitless. conclusion AV is kills vehicels super fast teammates can and will blow up your vehicles the cost of vehicles is too damn high the match victory gains don't accomodate the effective use of vehicles, or the loss of vehicels. so lossing one vehicle is a net loss every match. implementing anyone of these solutions will help either outright resolve this issue and more OR at least remedy a portion of the problem.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1966	Posted - 2013.09.14 05:31:00 - [2] - Quote I feel dropsuits really should be raise in cost to bring them more in line with tanks. MORE COMMENT PENDING WHEN I HAVE DIGESTED THIS THREAD.
Thurak1 Psygod9 168	Posted - 2013.09.14 06:11:00 - [3] - Quote I think a elegent solution is one i have seen before where you can selectivly lock vehicles and decide to lock all but you, all but your squad or leave unlocked. In combination with that an eject would give a great solution. With these 2 things you could kick everyone out then get out and lock the vehicle to everyone but you and this would make it so nobody could get in and you could recall the vehicle.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 1026	Posted - 2013.09.14 06:58:00 - [4] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: I think a elegent solution is one i have seen before where you can selectivly lock vehicles and decide to lock all but you, all but your squad or leave unlocked. In combination with that an eject would give a great solution. With these 2 things you could kick everyone out then get out and lock the vehicle to everyone but you and this would make it so nobody could get in and you could recall the vehicle. i like this. anything is better than the current timed systemd
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 210	Posted - 2013.09.14 12:31:00 - [5] - Quote Vehicles are powerful and change the course of a fight. They should be expensive to loose. This makes pilots fly with caution instead of recklessly charging at the enemy like in other games. When I blow upsomeone's vehicle, I want them to be sad/angry with me, this is New Eden, and that's part of the fun of the game. I know you enjoy killing my dropsuits too. The solution to the AV balance is to make proto suits more expensive, then the vehicle users have nothing to complain about. Making them cheap will break DUST and you'll see lots of Kamakasi tactics. I don't have a strong opinion on the vehicle locking stuff. I can see it from the pilots perspective, but I can also see this being used by pilots to troll teammates: e.g. kicking out a squad as far from the fight as possible so they have to run (and get sniped), kicking one guy out in the middle of a dozen enemies, etc.
Anoko Destrolock THE NUCLEAR KNIGHTS 2	Posted - 2013.09.14 15:38:00 - [6] - Quote Raising dropsuitprices won't make a difference. I can fit proto swarms SMG shield ext an armor plates on a free suit with a nano hive. With a suit that costs 30k I can blow up a 800k isk tank. The solution is to make basic tanks cheaper and make adv and proto tanks that are more costly and more durable.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 2909	Posted - 2013.09.14 16:03:00 - [7] - Quote LAVs are free. If you don't have a free LAV BPO, they're so incredibly dirt cheap you can afford to lose them by the dozens and still come out positive. If tanks are the same price as dropsuits - why the hell should I run infantry at all? Just use a Tank, it's an extra 6000 HP layer armor. Edit: After seeing the content of your posts I've made it my sole mission to steall ALL of your vehicles and drive them off the nearest cliff.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 3203	Posted - 2013.09.14 16:10:00 - [8] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: solution 1: debit vs credit when a teammate piloting your vehicle causes it to blow up, while he is in it, or after you takes control and gets out; your ISK wallet is debited the exact amount and aurum (if used) woth of the vehicle. the teammate is credited the amount to his account and if he doesn't have the funds, he goes negative. either way, the vehicle owner gets debited the full amount immediately upon the vehicles destruction. Jesus Christ this is such an awful idea I don't know what to say. What happens here is tankers encourage randoms to get in their tank, then don't give a damn when they lose it because they jump out and oh hey, that blueberry just paid the price for it. This is monumentally stupid. Do you really think it's a good idea for some random new player to be billed literally millions of isk because he unknowingly hopped into a turret? What if they don't have aurum and it's an aurum tank? Just add vehicle locks. Done. There's no need for something this... insane. Quote: solution 2: use the "square button" the square button has no function on vehicles at the moment. Assigning a 'kick crew' action to that button that either removes all occupants could help you remove idoits who steal allied vehicles just to troll and blow it up. Not a terrible idea, but there's huge potential for griefing here. What about people using dropships just to eject people far out in the redline? Also, nobody is 'stealing allied vehicles just to troll it and blow it up'. 99% of the time that's a random blueberry who hopped in a tank and is surprised because they actually have control. Quote: solution 3: long distance recall basically, from anywhere your vehicle is on the map you can recall it. simply, press the 'down d-pad' button (ps3 controler) then on the map select your vehicle. regardless of who's in it, it gets recalled. leaving them exposed, or killing them (ones they see it turn blue its time to get out]. Recalling even when there are people in it is fine. Killing them because they're in it when it's recalled is not fine and is stupid. Ejecting them to recall is definitely fine and is a good idea. Ranged recall is silly unless it's stopped by damage to the tank or someone attempting to hack it. Quote: solution 4: simple economics reduce the price of LAVs to that of dropsuits of equivelant levels. reduce the price of dropships to that of ADV and proto suits reduce the price of tanks to that of dropships currently make the prices of vehicle turrets and mods to dropsuits mods. this will help diminish the loss of teammates causing you to loss vehicles. teammates can and will blow up your vehicles implementing anyone of these solutions will help either outright resolve this issue and more OR at least remedy a portion of the problem. I agree that the costs are too high. However, if cutting them significantly was accompanied by a significant buff, you will get tank spam, as it becomes cost-effective to spam them plenty of the time to get bucket loads of kills. Teammates are not the ones to blame for every single vehicle loss. If a blueberry caused you a vehicle loss because you couldn't recall your tank, you were trying to recall it under fire, which shouldn't be doable anyway. I'm sure someone will whine at me about infantry being able to swap dropsuits at supply depots whilst under fire, but I disagree with that as well. Also, infantry die much quicker than tanks. A couple of your suggestions have some merit. But billing your teammates for your tanks? **** no.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 358	Posted - 2013.09.14 16:21:00 - [9] - Quote change the vehicle engineering skill to give 5% pg per level instead of lowing spu cost of pg expansion modules... thats the only thing that needs to be done to most tanks..
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 211	Posted - 2013.09.14 16:53:00 - [10] - Quote Anoko Destrolock wrote: Raising dropsuitprices won't make a difference. I can fit proto swarms SMG shield ext an armor plates on a free suit with a nano hive. With that fit you'll be sniper candy. Quote: With a suit that costs 30k I can blow up a 800k isk tank. And someone with a FREE suit can kill someone in a 200K+ proto AV fit. It's DUST, having power costs ISK--lots of it. You can also take down very expensive things with cheap ones too. This guy got a 820 million ISK ransom using his 300K ISK frig by warp scrambling a jump freighter. Vehicles need support of their teammates (yes redline snipers can have a useful contribution). Get logistics to keep you repped, have snipers take out/supress AV. It's a good balance. Having vehicles incredibly powerful, and practically invulnerable, or as they are and dirt cheap will turn DUST into TANK 514. If you want to drive fancy things, you should bring friends with you.

Synbot Expert Intervention Caldari State 76	Posted - 2013.09.14 17:03:00 - [11] - Quote they should have insurance like in EVE
Anoko Destrolock THE NUCLEAR KNIGHTS 3	Posted - 2013.09.15 03:46:00 - [12] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Anoko Destrolock wrote: Raising dropsuitprices won't make a difference. I can fit proto swarms SMG shield ext an armor plates on a free suit with a nano hive. With that fit you'll be sniper candy. Quote: With a suit that costs 30k I can blow up a 800k isk tank. And someone with a FREE suit can kill someone in a 200K+ proto AV fit. It's DUST, having power costs ISK--lots of it. You can also take down very expensive things with cheap ones too. This guy got a 820 million ISK ransom using his 300K ISK frig by warp scrambling a jump freighter. Vehicles need support of their teammates (yes redline snipers can have a useful contribution). Get logistics to keep you repped, have snipers take out/supress AV. It's a good balance. Having vehicles incredibly powerful, and practically invulnerable, or as they are and dirt cheap will turn DUST into TANK 514. If you want to drive fancy things, you should bring friends with you. Umm how does having 630 hp and 6.7 run speed make me sniper candy? When I stand still? Lol My point was the best way to blow up a tank is to put proto swarms on a std suit and its dirt cheap. No need for proto suits and modules with av
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 1036	Posted - 2013.09.15 08:31:00 - [13] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: D legendary hero wrote: solution 1: debit vs credit when a teammate piloting your vehicle causes it to blow up, while he is in it, or after you takes control and gets out; your ISK wallet is debited the exact amount and aurum (if used) woth of the vehicle. the teammate is credited the amount to his account and if he doesn't have the funds, he goes negative. either way, the vehicle owner gets debited the full amount immediately upon the vehicles destruction. Jesus Christ this is such an awful idea I don't know what to say. What happens here is tankers encourage randoms to get in their tank, then don't give a damn when they lose it because they jump out and oh hey, that blueberry just paid the price for it. This is monumentally stupid. Do you really think it's a good idea for some random new player to be billed literally millions of isk because he unknowingly hopped into a turret? What if they don't have aurum and it's an aurum tank? Just add vehicle locks. Done. There's no need for something this... insane. Quote: solution 2: use the "square button" the square button has no function on vehicles at the moment. Assigning a 'kick crew' action to that button that either removes all occupants could help you remove idoits who steal allied vehicles just to troll and blow it up. Not a terrible idea, but there's huge potential for griefing here. What about people using dropships just to eject people far out in the redline? Also, nobody is 'stealing allied vehicles just to troll it and blow it up'. 99% of the time that's a random blueberry who hopped in a tank and is surprised because they actually have control. Quote: solution 3: long distance recall basically, from anywhere your vehicle is on the map you can recall it. simply, press the 'down d-pad' button (ps3 controler) then on the map select your vehicle. regardless of who's in it, it gets recalled. leaving them exposed, or killing them (ones they see it turn blue its time to get out]. Recalling even when there are people in it is fine. Killing them because they're in it when it's recalled is not fine and is stupid. Ejecting them to recall is definitely fine and is a good idea. Ranged recall is silly unless it's stopped by damage to the tank or someone attempting to hack it. Quote: solution 4: simple economics reduce the price of LAVs to that of dropsuits of equivelant levels. reduce the price of dropships to that of ADV and proto suits reduce the price of tanks to that of dropships currently make the prices of vehicle turrets and mods to dropsuits mods. this will help diminish the loss of teammates causing you to loss vehicles. teammates can and will blow up your vehicles implementing anyone of these solutions will help either outright resolve this issue and more OR at least remedy a portion of the problem. I agree that the costs are too high. However, if cutting them significantly was accompanied by a significant buff, you will get tank spam, as it becomes cost-effective to spam them plenty of the time to get bucket loads of kills. Teammates are not the ones to blame for every single vehicle loss. If a blueberry caused you a vehicle loss because you couldn't recall your tank, you were trying to recall it under fire, which shouldn't be doable anyway. I'm sure someone will whine at me about infantry being able to swap dropsuits at supply depots whilst under fire, but I disagree with that as well. Also, infantry die much quicker than tanks. A couple of your suggestions have some merit. But billing your teammates for your tanks? **** no. im just throwing the solutions out there if you got something better please share. im tired of teammates being the cause of my lost vehicles. plus, 1 guy with an Assault forgu can pop that 600hp tank really quick. but enemies aside. this thread is to stop teamates from trolling you by taking your vehicles and just flying them into the ground. any recommendations?
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 1036	Posted - 2013.09.15 08:33:00 - [14] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: change the vehicle engineering skill to give 5% pg per level instead of lowing spu cost of pg expansion modules... thats the only thing that needs to be done to most tanks.. finally. we can agree on something. 1+ bro 1+
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 3227	Posted - 2013.09.15 08:40:00 - [15] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: im just throwing the solutions out there if you got something better please share. im tired of teammates being the cause of my lost vehicles. plus, 1 guy with an Assault forgu can pop that 600hp tank really quick. but enemies aside. this thread is to stop teamates from trolling you by taking your vehicles and just flying them into the ground. any recommendations? Vehicle locks. That is all. After the vehicles are rebalanced, then we can talk about price reductions if still necessary.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 1036	Posted - 2013.09.15 09:05:00 - [16] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: D legendary hero wrote: im just throwing the solutions out there if you got something better please share. im tired of teammates being the cause of my lost vehicles. plus, 1 guy with an Assault forgu can pop that 600hp tank really quick. but enemies aside. this thread is to stop teamates from trolling you by taking your vehicles and just flying them into the ground. any recommendations? Vehicle locks. That is all. After the vehicles are rebalanced, then we can talk about price reductions if still necessary. I have a strange feeling, that 1.6 with the weapon rebalancing is going to send AV back to where it is. the vehicle rebalance doesn't seem to be what it should. I dnt even think they are planning on implementing the dropship x funtion allowing teamates to fire out the dropship. if they won't allow that because 1 or 2 QQers think it would be OP, how could you expect any type of "legit" buff to vehicles in 1.5? I read the plans and the article but it gave nothing definitive to chew on. it basically said, actives will be stronger and passives weaker... but how much stronger? how much weaker? probably not by much. vehicles buffs tend to be weak (save the murder taxi's but that was a broken mechanic not the buff per se).


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