DUST Search - the true reason why the assault rifle is balanced with the other guns..

CLONE117 wrote:

assault rifle is fine i just did the dang stupid math..

ar damage per clip around 2040..

hmg damage per clip...4250 or around 7k if its damage per shot is 18..

smg is around 1600 per clip but its a side arm and in total ammo beats the ar in total damage that can be dealt...

the scrambler rifle... and assault variant..

a little over 2500 per clip...

or around that number maybe higher...

and still beats the assault rifle in total damage...

the assault rifle currently at base stats is possibly one of the weakest guns in dust 514 and probably relies on your so called op dps to stay on even ground between all of the other guns with in its class..

so dont give me the nerf ar crap again....
and stop crying about it....

this is the only reason needed to prove the ar is fine!...

i did this all by calculator and it numbers rnt 100% accurate and most of its estimation but still u can clearly see the facts that the assault rifle is the weakest in its class currently and there fore relies on its versatility and apparently non existent better dps to be on even ground with the other guns..

and this potential total damage could only be reached if and only if all rounds hit and most of the time they miss but because of improved hit detection and proper aiming with the gun u r going to die to it... so it is balanced because its maximum damage potential its significantly lower than alot of the other weaponry.

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CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 348	Posted - 2013.09.13 18:14:00 - [1] - Quote assault rifle is fine i just did the dang stupid math.. ar damage per clip around 2040.. hmg damage per clip...4250 or around 7k if its damage per shot is 18.. smg is around 1600 per clip but its a side arm and in total ammo beats the ar in total damage that can be dealt... the scrambler rifle... and assault variant.. a little over 2500 per clip... or around that number maybe higher... and still beats the assault rifle in total damage... the assault rifle currently at base stats is possibly one of the weakest guns in dust 514 and probably relies on your so called op dps to stay on even ground between all of the other guns with in its class.. so dont give me the nerf ar crap again.... and stop crying about it.... this is the only reason needed to prove the ar is fine!... i did this all by calculator and it numbers rnt 100% accurate and most of its estimation but still u can clearly see the facts that the assault rifle is the weakest in its class currently and there fore relies on its versatility and apparently non existent better dps to be on even ground with the other guns.. and this potential total damage could only be reached if and only if all rounds hit and most of the time they miss but because of improved hit detection and proper aiming with the gun u r going to die to it... so it is balanced because its maximum damage potential its significantly lower than alot of the other weaponry.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 348	Posted - 2013.09.13 18:18:00 - [2] - Quote this reason and math isnt including all of the damage mods the average amount a player misses his shots with the ar and hp of enemy this is only meant if ALL rounds that r fired hit the target.... so this so called overpoweredness is actually pointless because its next to impossible to determine exactly how well the gun does.. it would require some sort of super complex equation so confusing no1 would really be able to understand it... so in short the assault rifle is balanced..
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 348	Posted - 2013.09.13 18:19:00 - [3] - Quote draw back being that its maximum damage potential is a lot lower than majority of the other guns. on here..
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 348	Posted - 2013.09.13 18:20:00 - [4] - Quote u may now post and try to act like an idiot by giving pointless and rather useless reasons to nerf the ar now... have a nice day...
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. 182	Posted - 2013.09.13 20:40:00 - [5] - Quote Damage per magazine doesn't mean much. You only need maybe 1200 in a mag to kill most anyone. Effective DPS is where its at. The AR completely outclasses every other weapons Effective DPS. Where other weapons miss, overheat, charge, ect., the AR does not.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 352	Posted - 2013.09.13 21:10:00 - [6] - Quote the ar does not outclass all of the other weapons and dps isnt massively important on a combat scenario. the ar has about the same precision and accuracy as all of the other guns within its class.. it seems more like the infantries main weapon on this game seeing how it is the most used and the starting weapon for nearly all players.. it also feels to have the smgs and hmgs worst and best traits turned around and put into one gun... and seeing how the alot of the other guns within its class can fire for longer than an assault rifle its on a balanced playing field.. it may have better dps but its main drawbacks r.. a smaller clipsize than the other guns in its class.. a relatively slower rate of fire.. and does very poorly in specific situations.. the assault rifle makes up for those drawbacks with being one of the most common weapons on the battlefield... a lot of missing is involved with all of the guns in general.. and the assault rifle suffers from missing just the same. the 60 round clipsize means the assault rifle isnt going to be devastating in a single players hands. and the assault rifles weakest in terms of maximum damage capabilities but it cant fire as long as the other guns.. the less ammo than the other guns which mean most player will be running back and forth to a supply depot alot unless they carry nano hives..but even then it will still be alot of running back and forth... it doesnt need any drawbacks added to it simply due to the fact that it is the most common, performs poorly in certain situations, and lacks the maximum damage damage and cant last long in a battle. thus why it needs no nerfing currently... the scrambler rifle can charge up its shots for increased damage and the ar might have just enough ammo to miss a few times.. the over heat mechanic isnt really a massive draw back for the guns because they can fire in bursts... if the ar stops shooting for any amount of time the ar user is dead.. my experience from gameplay while using the ar ended up with me having to switch to an smg to finish off my enemy... but the ar as it is right now is well balanced currently...when compared to the other weaponry..
fawkuima juggalo Pawns and Kings The Superpowers 30	Posted - 2013.09.13 21:19:00 - [7] - Quote DONT NERF MY GUN
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 3179	Posted - 2013.09.13 22:03:00 - [8] - Quote I may disagree with the nerf brigade on this one, but reading your counterpost made me cringe. Sorry. Your post is just full of terrible logic. Examples: Quote: the assault rifle makes up for those drawbacks with being one of the most common weapons on the battlefield... That's idiotic. How does weapon usage amounts actually affect balance? Many certainly whinge that the AR is OP because it's used so widely, but they have a hell of a lot more reasoning behind that than this statement does. Weapon usage =/= Weapon balance. Everyone, get this through your head. Quote: the 60 round clipsize means the assault rifle isnt going to be devastating in a single players hands. The 60 round clipsize is large enough to barely be a limiting factor, especially as the reload is so fast. Quote: the less ammo than the other guns which mean most player will be running back and forth to a supply depot alot unless they carry nano hives..but even then it will still be alot of running back and forth... It doesn't have less ammo. The ammo economy on the AR is average, nothing more, nothing less. Think it's poor? Look at the MD. You are, however, correct on one thing. The AR does not have superior accuracy to other weapons in its class - those who say otherwise are wrong, and I have empirical evidence to the contrary. Notice how the AR has recoil and the ASCR does not. The vast majority of people are bashing on the normal AR - some going so far as to say that they dropped the ASCR for the AR. The dispersion is not much worse on the ASCR. I find it completely baffling that people point out the Gallente AR as the problem when the ASCR is on equal footing, and even more stupid that people should say high usage must mean that it's OP when ASCRs are equally effective and hardly used in comparison.
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster 184	Posted - 2013.09.13 22:47:00 - [9] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: the ar does not outclass all of the other weapons and dps isnt massively important on a combat scenario. "dps isnt massively important on a combat scenario." Quote: a lot of missing is involved with all of the guns in general.. and the assault rifle suffers from missing just the same. AR has so little dispersion or kick that it's hard to miss with the damn thing Quote: it doesnt need any drawbacks added to it simply due to the fact that it is the most common, performs poorly in certain situations, and lacks the maximum damage damage and cant last long in a battle. "certain situations" is a broad term but 9 out of 10 situations AR wins Quote: if the ar stops shooting for any amount of time the ar user is dead.. And no other weapon has this problem? ScR overheats which prevents you from switching your weapon and same goes to LR Quote: my experience from gameplay while using the ar ended up with me having to switch to an smg to finish off my enemy... Not trying to be mean here but you are either 1) Bad at shooting 2) Low on ammo 3) You had little to no idea what you were doing Also, Mass swarm forge rifle
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 450	Posted - 2013.09.13 23:55:00 - [10] - Quote The hmg has a lack of range, and a loading time slower than a snail race smg has low range, its highef overall capacity allows it to be a personal defence weapon sr has overheat, asr NEEDS more overheat what drawback does the ar have?

Thurak1 Psygod9 165	Posted - 2013.09.14 00:10:00 - [11] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: the ar does not outclass all of the other weapons and dps isnt massively important on a combat scenario. the ar has about the same precision and accuracy as all of the other guns within its class.. .. DPS in a FPS is just about the ONLY important stat. I really cant see why in the world you think that DPS can be brushed aside as unimportant other than its the stat that makes the AR OP. Course if DPS isnt so important than how about we dial back the firing rate of the ar so you can only shoot 1 round per second that way there you damage per clip remains the same but you dps is now crap. It sure would make me a happy camper. I mean after all DPS is unimportant right? Also its pretty easy to be accurate in class when its class is consisted of other AR weapons. Myself i want to see the sharpshooter skill added to the HMG.
I AM TacoBueno Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2013.10.02 00:09:00 - [12] - Quote I honestly have to say that the ARs are overpowered, but that is just my opinion. I have only been playing this game for two weeks but the only guns that I get mowed down from/die in a second from are ARs. They just seem ridiculously strong to me with great range. Even when I have a heavy suit on I'm honestly scared of ARs because they can kill me in 2 seconds....it is a little ridiculous. Or if I'm hiding around a corner and just peak around for a second, if there is an AR guy I'll usually have less than a fourth of my hp left when I get back to cover, and that all takes place in about 5 seconds. Even when using assault rifles you can tell they just mow people down. I'm just saying, this is all my opinion, but it is getting pretty annoying dying mostly from the GEK and the Duvolle.
Synbot Expert Intervention Caldari State 211	Posted - 2013.10.02 00:15:00 - [13] - Quote Raw stats will not prove if it's balanced or not. You need to add factors such as recoil, dispersion, etc. The whole purpose of the gun is to have a jack-of-all-trades weapon, currently it isn't. You can do the math on that one. It's also supposedly a blaster weapon. It does not display these characteristics.
Arc-08 Horizons' Edge Orion Empire 107	Posted - 2013.10.02 00:35:00 - [14] - Quote Buff the Bust AR, buff the Burst AR. that's what we need. because Burst AR takes actual skill to use.
I-Shayz-I Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 976	Posted - 2013.10.02 01:22:00 - [15] - Quote Dude, the thing is more accurate when aiming down scope than any other weapon besides the sniper/laser rifle. This means that the AR damage per clip is 2040 as long as you keep your sight on the enemy. Every other automatic weapon is INCAPABLE of doing this. Most weapons have a good balance of damage vs spread, as they acknowledge the fact that your gun still has some inaccuracy when aiming down the sights. No other weapon has this advantage besides the sniper/laser rifle, which means that weapons that are better at long ranges (such as the scrambler rifle) are outmatched by the AR because they don't always shoot where you aim them. The AR is supposed to be better at short range encounters instead of super long range ones. The problem is that the spread of the AR (what you see when you hip fire) just vanishes when you put your gun into your shoulder and look down some iron sights. This doesn't make any sense. Until this "feature" of the AR is removed, I will always call the AR a cheap and unfair weapon. Go play ANY OTHER GAME and look at how they balance the AR. Deadly up close, useless at range. The spread is almost ALWAYS still present when ADS, and it keeps the damage in check compared to long range weapons. It also keeps long range weapons staying at long range without having to worry about people with ARs sniping them from across the map.
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 1480	Posted - 2013.10.02 01:38:00 - [16] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: assault rifle is fine i just did the dang stupid math.. ar damage per clip around 2040.. hmg damage per clip...4250 or around 7k if its damage per shot is 18.. smg is around 1600 per clip but its a side arm and in total ammo beats the ar in total damage that can be dealt... the scrambler rifle... and assault variant.. a little over 2500 per clip... or around that number maybe higher... and still beats the assault rifle in total damage... the assault rifle currently at base stats is possibly one of the weakest guns in dust 514 and probably relies on your so called op dps to stay on even ground between all of the other guns with in its class.. so dont give me the nerf ar crap again.... and stop crying about it.... this is the only reason needed to prove the ar is fine!... i did this all by calculator and it numbers rnt 100% accurate and most of its estimation but still u can clearly see the facts that the assault rifle is the weakest in its class currently and there fore relies on its versatility and apparently non existent better dps to be on even ground with the other guns.. and this potential total damage could only be reached if and only if all rounds hit and most of the time they miss but because of improved hit detection and proper aiming with the gun u r going to die to it... so it is balanced because its maximum damage potential its significantly lower than alot of the other weaponry. Im against nerfs: But your math is lacking and does not include Optimal ranges and more importantly , Dispersion of fire/rate. Thing that ARs currently dont have and other weapons do. comparing an AR with an HMG on raw DPS is a bad joke,since the AR can hit 60 out of 60 bullets at 60+ mts and the HMG cant hit 20 out of 100 outside a 20mts range. comparing the AR with a scrambler rifle that OVERHEATS while the AR never does, its also a fail Please think before posting something like this.TY Anyways im agains Nerfing stuff.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 16	Posted - 2013.10.02 02:01:00 - [17] - Quote Does it have a charge time?overheat?damage and immobolize when overheated?have terrible range? Inaccurate? No. Well atleast it doesnt become several times more accurate with aim assist... oh wait
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 473	Posted - 2013.10.02 04:40:00 - [18] - Quote The stupidity of the Original poster baffles me, but it makes sense that he's in TEST.
gustavo acosta Omega Elite Mercs INC. 9	Posted - 2013.10.02 04:57:00 - [19] - Quote If you think the ar isn't over-powered at the moment you are literally cancer and should leave. Seriously this happened withe the flaylocks and the god damn murder taxis, I'm guessing when they finally fix the ar you'll be wanting a respec? What really sucks is that the ar won't be fixed until 1.6 at the earlyiest so now regular players who do use a variety of guns will have to deal with this crap. You know something's amiss when any descent proto suit is killed instantaneously by a militia fit, and that's what's happening in the game right now.
Talos Vagheitan King Slayers 24	Posted - 2013.10.02 05:56:00 - [20] - Quote AR is so widely used due to it's simplicity and familiarity. Everyone who's played a shooter knows what an AR is and how it works. Dust is also a complex game, and when new players sign up and start choosing weapons to spec into, they're not gonna say to themselves "I wonder wtf a Scrambler Rifle is" and then spec into it. They're much more likely to put some points into the AR's, and just stick with that, since they already spent SP on it. I think crucial to this games success, is an informative and diverse tutorial as possible.

Spectral Clone The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 237	Posted - 2013.10.02 06:14:00 - [21] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: this reason and math isnt including all of the damage mods the average amount a player misses his shots with the ar and hp of enemy this is only meant if ALL rounds that r fired hit the target.... How do you call this an accurate calculation then?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Top Men. 1347	Posted - 2013.10.02 06:50:00 - [22] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: A lot of anecdotal and irrelevant things. 1/10 Dear God LEARN TO MATH AND LOGIC!
Draco Cerberus Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 345	Posted - 2013.10.02 06:52:00 - [23] - Quote He added up all the bullets when you start a match and calculated all damage potential. A good method in this case for determining how effective a weapon is likely to be. Dispersion doesn't factor into calculations and can be a good thing when an enemy is moving around a bit or a lot, there is a better chance for a shotgun effect and in close quarters dispersion counts a great deal less. It is only at range where dispersion truly becomes a factor because at range the target is smaller and there is a greater chance you will miss your target. As the lowest of the class of weapons (Primary Automatic) the AR really is not meant to shine in any particular area and quite often you will see kills with it, but this doesn't mean it is the best, only that people like to use it. At least with a murder taxi there was solid logic behind the nerf request, with lower damage potential than the SCR and HMG there really is no room to complain. BTW, new recruits brought in by friends of dust players receive a BPO AR when they start, making it a cheap way to learn the game.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Top Men. 1347	Posted - 2013.10.02 07:02:00 - [24] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: At least with a murder taxi there was solid logic behind the nerf request, with lower damage potential than the SCR and HMG there really is no room to complain. Yes because that lower POTENTIAL means it's totally right that it can out-kill an HMG in CQC. It all makes perfect sense now!
Cosgar ParagonX 5582	Posted - 2013.10.02 07:25:00 - [25] - Quote I never was a fan of nerfs, but I'm really going to enjoy when the other two rifles come out and the AR finally gets it.
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 136	Posted - 2013.10.02 07:52:00 - [26] - Quote Hmm... ( rubs store-bought beard ) and yet the ar is the only non-sniper weapon capable of dealing 25% damage at 175+m? That equates to about 7-8 damage on a militia ar, whose dps is then decreased from 426 down to 100 dps. Also accounting that a lv0 operations mlt ar user can fire off the first 15-20 rounds with no recoil. This means that there is the potential to kill ANY wounded target for a hearty kill-steal at 150-175. Also it's dps at that range is still enough to make snipers within 200m run away crying. Also as a side-metric: the Lazer rifle has 120% damage at 90m versus shields, yes this is in fact more % than an ar. However the gery next half meter the lr drops to 12%, whereas a mlt ar still remains with 37+% efficiency. This proves that the ar is the embodiement of a fully automatic sniper rifle. At this 37% efficency. The mlt ar still does 12.6 damage per shot, equating to 20 shot bursts of 157DPS. Whereas the lr is doing something around possibly 20dps.
Stevez Lau Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2013.10.02 09:39:00 - [27] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: assault rifle is fine i just did the dang stupid math.. ar damage per clip around 2040.. hmg damage per clip...4250 or around 7k if its damage per shot is 18.. smg is around 1600 per clip but its a side arm and in total ammo beats the ar in total damage that can be dealt... the scrambler rifle... and assault variant.. a little over 2500 per clip... or around that number maybe higher... and still beats the assault rifle in total damage... the assault rifle currently at base stats is possibly one of the weakest guns in dust 514 and probably relies on your so called op dps to stay on even ground between all of the other guns with in its class.. so dont give me the nerf ar crap again.... and stop crying about it.... this is the only reason needed to prove the ar is fine!... i did this all by calculator and it numbers rnt 100% accurate and most of its estimation but still u can clearly see the facts that the assault rifle is the weakest in its class currently and there fore relies on its versatility and apparently non existent better dps to be on even ground with the other guns.. and this potential total damage could only be reached if and only if all rounds hit and most of the time they miss but because of improved hit detection and proper aiming with the gun u r going to die to it... so it is balanced because its maximum damage potential its significantly lower than alot of the other weaponry. I love the theory and math behind games but this is stupid because numbers are numbers and math alone can't prove weapon balance. It needs to be put into practice and observed with all the different variables like there would be in a real match. They really really need test areas for players to test stuff.
Draco Cerberus Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 346	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:04:00 - [28] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: At least with a murder taxi there was solid logic behind the nerf request, with lower damage potential than the SCR and HMG there really is no room to complain. Yes because that lower POTENTIAL means it's totally right that it can out-kill an HMG in CQC. It all makes perfect sense now! Can I fit a HMG to a medium frame suit? Is my Medium frame suit faster than a Heavy suit? NO and YES. Also looking for some evidence that it out does the HMG in CQC, more likely I will find SMG's their sidearm Mini HMG to be far better for CQC. Personal experience has taught me that the Heavy you approach from behind is an almost certainly dead heavy because then you have the ability to take aim at their head and their armor takes forever to heal. On the other hand, a squad of 6 heavies running as a wall of lead will absolutely decimate an equal number of mercs running light weapons as primary hands down in CQC. I have seen this in action. Never underestimate the heavy. If you are having problems engaging with a HMG vs AR user I suggest testing out engaging at various ranges to see where you can balance tracking movement and still spraying in the correct direction. Often you will miss a fast moving target if you are aiming down your gun, maybe not doing ADS will help.
I AM TacoBueno Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2013.10.02 23:05:00 - [29] - Quote The more I get mowed down and die almost instantly from even the militia assault rifles from far distances the more I think you have to be stupid to not see that ARs are over powered. It's just point, shoot, kill, point, shoot, kill. In an open field? Guy has AR and you don't? You're ****. That is literally what it is seeming like all of the time now. It seems like since you use the AR so much you don't want it nerfed, but honestly the range is just so damn good on it and it is so easy to shoot people with... it should be nerfed to balance it out, not to ruin it. If it takes just 1 second to completely destroy anyone (even heavies) I would have to say that it is overpowered. The only way I have killed anyone that has an AR is either because they suck at aiming, or I strafe and dodge as best I can while MDing the ** out of them (luckily the MD scares a lot of people into panicking and shooting like crazy). This is all just my opinion though.
Ghost Kaisar Pradox One 398	Posted - 2013.10.03 00:13:00 - [30] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: what drawback does the ar have? A 60 round clip.



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