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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1560
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Posted - 2013.11.13 19:35:00 -
[31] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:gbghg wrote:So in the time it takes a HMG to do 1200 damage,assuming that we manage to empty the clip without overheating, the AR does nearly 1600. And you said that's assuming both are inside their optimals? If you are referring to the first chart, it is ONLY damage in that given second. I had another I chose not to post which was like the third chart, but showing all the weapons from chart one. Using that data, the summed damage over time, when the HMG has done 1200 damage (600DPS for 2 secs), the AR will have only done 850 (425 DPS for 2 secs). -Again this is actually no skills applied to any weapon and 100% accuracy. But yes, its in the optimals of each weapon for the first 3 charts. 1) At its supposed optimal range, assuming perfect aim, the HMG will only do a small fraction of 1200 damage in two seconds, due to dispersion.
2) Optimal Range is meaningless for the HMG due to dispersion. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1781
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Posted - 2013.11.13 19:54:00 -
[32] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:gbghg wrote:So in the time it takes a HMG to do 1200 damage,assuming that we manage to empty the clip without overheating, the AR does nearly 1600. And you said that's assuming both are inside their optimals? If you are referring to the first chart, it is ONLY damage in that given second. I had another I chose not to post which was like the third chart, but showing all the weapons from chart one. Using that data, the summed damage over time, when the HMG has done 1200 damage (600DPS for 2 secs), the AR will have only done 850 (425 DPS for 2 secs). -Again this is actually no skills applied to any weapon and 100% accuracy. But yes, its in the optimals of each weapon for the first 3 charts. 1) At its supposed optimal range, assuming perfect aim, the HMG will only do a small fraction of 1200 damage in two seconds, due to dispersion. 2) Optimal Range is meaningless for the HMG due to dispersion.
Yeah you are completely right on my up front admission about accuracy. I like your input. Accuracy and dispersion have to be intimately tied into 'damage application' in the TTK discussion. If your weapon is SUPPOSED to have an optimal range out to 30m, but your bullets fire in a cone with a 2m diameter at 30m, your DPS at 30m is MUCH less. If you then tune DPS on an unmoving dropsuit at that range receiving a fraction of the bullets, you directly increase DPS at closer ranges with tighter dispersion.
It would be nice to know what exactly the 'accuracy' stat means on the stats. To this day, I don't think they have told us.
Are these charts accurate depictions of in game DPS? No.
Are these charts more useful in showing how/when/where weapons can best apply damage especially compared to the anecdotal refrains of "I'm always dieing way to fast!" ...I hope so. |
Flix Keptick
Red Star. EoN.
1258
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Posted - 2013.11.13 19:58:00 -
[33] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Lightning Bolt2 wrote:yay... a ScR nerf thread! saying thats its more OP than the OP AR! No, it explicitly is not a nerf ScR thread. It is a SR is > AR in situation A while AR > SR in situation B. I've clearly laid out some scenarios where AR is better. It's up to you to stop just playing rock, paper, scissors with just the biggest rocks you can find. Thing is... any weapon > ar in situation X while AR > said weapon in situations Y, Z, U and W... Most of the weapons in this game have a niche except the ar (and scr to a certain extent). That't like playing a game of rock paper siscors where the scisors beats both the rock and paper...
"Please don't"
G˙ċForum warrior lvl.1G˙ċ
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1781
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Posted - 2013.11.13 20:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
Flix Keptick wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Lightning Bolt2 wrote:yay... a ScR nerf thread! saying thats its more OP than the OP AR! No, it explicitly is not a nerf ScR thread. It is a SR is > AR in situation A while AR > SR in situation B. I've clearly laid out some scenarios where AR is better. It's up to you to stop just playing rock, paper, scissors with just the biggest rocks you can find. Thing is... any weapon > ar in situation X while AR > said weapon in situations Y, Z, U and W... Most of the weapons in this game have a niche except the ar (and scr to a certain extent). That't like playing a game of rock paper siscors where the scisors beats both the rock and paper...
Sorry you can't convince me that the AR is great outside of >45m. That's a lot of niche where it sucks.
And in games where the opponent always plays scissors and scissors always beats paper and rock, I just make sure I cut off all my opponents fingers so they are forced to play rock while I always play paper. Force them into their weakness. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1560
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 20:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Lightning Bolt2 wrote:yay... a ScR nerf thread! saying thats its more OP than the OP AR! No, it explicitly is not a nerf ScR thread. It is a SR is > AR in situation A while AR > SR in situation B. I've clearly laid out some scenarios where AR is better. It's up to you to stop just playing rock, paper, scissors with just the biggest rocks you can find. My issue is that currently with the AR vs the HMG Scissors cuts Rock. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1784
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Posted - 2013.11.13 20:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Lightning Bolt2 wrote:yay... a ScR nerf thread! saying thats its more OP than the OP AR! No, it explicitly is not a nerf ScR thread. It is a SR is > AR in situation A while AR > SR in situation B. I've clearly laid out some scenarios where AR is better. It's up to you to stop just playing rock, paper, scissors with just the biggest rocks you can find. My issue is that currently with the AR vs the HMG Scissors cuts Rock.
I see you there. What I would suggest for Heavy Weapons isn't that the DPS should necessarily increase, but they should do a kind of knockback with their high RoF. That way HMG vs. AR means that if you catch the heavy with his back turned, yes, he's probably dead, justifiably. But if he starts to get a shot on you, you will have a hard time getting damage on him consistantly. |
Tek Hound
Death In Xcess Corporation
130
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Posted - 2013.11.13 20:48:00 -
[37] - Quote
One word "RECOIL" As for optimal range who cares when an Ar(noobstick) can cover all.Wasting time to get into optimal with a weapon while the Ar is blasting you.Lmfao.. yea balance because the noobstick has to get into its optimal range.Its so op it even breaks dust lore.Wow anything to protect a crutch that's killing this game.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1560
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Posted - 2013.11.13 20:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Lightning Bolt2 wrote:yay... a ScR nerf thread! saying thats its more OP than the OP AR! No, it explicitly is not a nerf ScR thread. It is a SR is > AR in situation A while AR > SR in situation B. I've clearly laid out some scenarios where AR is better. It's up to you to stop just playing rock, paper, scissors with just the biggest rocks you can find. My issue is that currently with the AR vs the HMG Scissors cuts Rock. I see you there. What I would suggest for Heavy Weapons isn't that the DPS should necessarily increase, but they should do a kind of knockback with their high RoF. That way HMG vs. AR means that if you catch the heavy with his back turned, yes, he's probably dead, justifiably. But if he starts to get a shot on you, you will have a hard time getting damage on him consistantly. That, or a Sharp Shooter skill similar to what the SMG has to reduce dispersion. Dispersion is dramatically shortening the effective range way below what it should be.
Edit: I have also noticed this week that I canGÇÖt sprint when getting hit, whether it is an HMG or an AR, or whatever shooting me. I am hoping this is a glitch because it is incredibly frustrating. I am not sure I would wish that on my enemies. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1784
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Posted - 2013.11.13 21:03:00 -
[39] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Lightning Bolt2 wrote:yay... a ScR nerf thread! saying thats its more OP than the OP AR! No, it explicitly is not a nerf ScR thread. It is a SR is > AR in situation A while AR > SR in situation B. I've clearly laid out some scenarios where AR is better. It's up to you to stop just playing rock, paper, scissors with just the biggest rocks you can find. My issue is that currently with the AR vs the HMG Scissors cuts Rock. I see you there. What I would suggest for Heavy Weapons isn't that the DPS should necessarily increase, but they should do a kind of knockback with their high RoF. That way HMG vs. AR means that if you catch the heavy with his back turned, yes, he's probably dead, justifiably. But if he starts to get a shot on you, you will have a hard time getting damage on him consistantly. That, or a Sharp Shooter skill similar to what the SMG has to reduce dispersion. Dispersion is dramatically shortening the effective range way below what it should be. Edit: I have also noticed this week that I canGÇÖt sprint when getting hit, whether it is an HMG or an AR, or whatever shooting me. I am hoping this is a glitch because it is incredibly frustrating. I am not sure I would wish that on my enemies.
I feel like that speed effect of being hit has always been there, only happens though if it starts before you start to move i think. I don't think it stops you while you are sprinting. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4369
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Posted - 2013.11.13 21:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
I am impressed human. Your cat overlods are pleased, and as such, you will get the holiest thing on the forums - A cat like.
Anyway: As an SCR user myself who switched from the duvolle a month and a half ago, I would say this is pretty accurate. SCR fits my playstyle more, though it is no slouch in CQC if you can aim right.
Though it is getting a +30m buff coming 1.7, which I think is unnecessary and might make the weapon OP...
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4369
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Posted - 2013.11.13 21:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
Pssst, someone did a test video, and showed that HMG's do 99% of their DPS if you can aim right at the middle since the crosshair is misleading, the HMG is laser accurate.
So his calculations are correct.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
4987
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Posted - 2013.11.13 21:22:00 -
[42] - Quote
Beren,
I like what you've done here. I do not think your semi-automatic SCR values are accurate or can show the true story. Unlike 100% accuracy, which may be attainable in some scenarios, clicking a dozen times per second is generally not doable for most people. Thus, as the weapon is semi-automatic, there is a DPS loss. A good clicker tends to click around 7-8 times a second, resulting in DPS loss.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1785
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Posted - 2013.11.13 21:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Pssst, someone did a test video, and showed that HMG's do 99% of their DPS if you can aim right at the middle since the crosshair is misleading, the HMG is laser accurate.
So his calculations are correct.
Yeah, I've figured that the 'accuracy' stat is hitscan based as a function of the reticle's distance from the center of a target, or from the center of a hitbox, or a certain radius from the hitbox. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1560
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 21:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Pssst, someone did a test video, and showed that HMG's do 99% of their DPS if you can aim right at the middle since the crosshair is misleading, the HMG is laser accurate.
So his calculations are correct. This is complete bull **** unless the heavy was crouching when doing the test. Cat Merc, I expect better of you!
I use the dot in the center to aim, not the big round circle. If you donGÇÖt get the dot on their head they will kill you first. That is the current HMG motto. With the AR you can spray and pray, but with the HMG if you are not perfectly accurate you barley do any damage. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
4990
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Posted - 2013.11.13 21:58:00 -
[45] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Pssst, someone did a test video, and showed that HMG's do 99% of their DPS if you can aim right at the middle since the crosshair is misleading, the HMG is laser accurate.
So his calculations are correct. This is complete bull **** unless the heavy was crouching when doing the test. Cat Merc, I expect better of you! I use the dot in the center to aim, not the big round circle. If you donGÇÖt get the dot on their head they will kill you first. That is the current HMG motto. With the AR you can spray and pray, but with the HMG if you are not perfectly accurate you barley do any damage.
Cat is currently catching up on forum whining. Please, let him be.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1563
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Posted - 2013.11.14 11:09:00 -
[46] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Pssst, someone did a test video, and showed that HMG's do 99% of their DPS if you can aim right at the middle since the crosshair is misleading, the HMG is laser accurate.
So his calculations are correct. Yeah, I've figured that the 'accuracy' stat is hitscan based as a function of the reticle's distance from the center of a target, or from the center of a hitbox, or a certain radius from the hitbox. Oh, that is what he meant by accurate. Well yes, the aim is 100% accurate, it is just that the bullets don't hit what you aim at! |
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