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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1560
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Posted - 2013.11.13 19:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Beren Hurin, you have noted many of the factors which are supposed to balance these weapons, but you consciously left out the most significant factor which is causing the Assault Rifle and the other Rifles to be OP right now. Specifically, you assumed 100% accuracy.
With Aim Assist and improved hit detection it is easier to aim accurately, so weapons which approach 100% accuracy are very powerful right now. However, weapons such as the HMG which are not even close to being 100% accurate, even if your aim is perfect, due to dispersion, do not benefit nearly as much from Aim Assist and improved hit detection, so they fall behind.
Therefor the balance you had between the available weapons before, was thrown completely off when Aim Assist was added and hit detection was improved. These changes allowed accurate weapons to land substantially more rounds on the target, greatly increasing the effective DPS of the rifles.
The result of this is:
a) All suits are dying faster to these weapons than was intended, to the point where people are concluding that increasing the tank of a fit is not making much of a difference now. The person who gets hit first, dies.
b) Weapons such as the HMG that were balanced around dispersion do not get the same benefit from Aim Assist because misses are hardwired into their formula, so even if you have your target perfectly lined up, the formula will insure a certain % of your bullets do not hit. This was balanced against the effective DPS of an Assault Rifle before Aim Assist and improved Hit Detection, leaving the HMG grossly underpowered in comparison now. (I switched from a Standard HMG with Proficiency 3 on my Heavy to a Standard (Dren) Assault Rifle with no skills, and my average kill count over several days doubled.) Experiments in the field confirm that the Assault Rifle has more Effective DPS than the HMG at 10m and beyond due to differences in Dispersion. The HMG only achieving a noticeable advantage inside of 5m where dispersion is not a significant factor. (The results are different when crouched, due to reduced dispersion, but crouching makes you a sitting duck.)
What is needed is a complete rebalancing based on current conditions. Either the DPS of the accurate weapons needs to be nerfed, or the other balancing factors such as dispersion need to be adjusted so that each weapon has the DPS profile it is supposed to have in comparison to other weapons.
If the DPS of the rifles is not nerfed, then a global buff to effective health needs to be applied to all suits.
That's what the Fox says.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1560
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 19:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:gbghg wrote:So in the time it takes a HMG to do 1200 damage,assuming that we manage to empty the clip without overheating, the AR does nearly 1600. And you said that's assuming both are inside their optimals? If you are referring to the first chart, it is ONLY damage in that given second. I had another I chose not to post which was like the third chart, but showing all the weapons from chart one. Using that data, the summed damage over time, when the HMG has done 1200 damage (600DPS for 2 secs), the AR will have only done 850 (425 DPS for 2 secs). -Again this is actually no skills applied to any weapon and 100% accuracy. But yes, its in the optimals of each weapon for the first 3 charts.
1) At its supposed optimal range, assuming perfect aim, the HMG will only do a small fraction of 1200 damage in two seconds, due to dispersion.
2) Optimal Range is meaningless for the HMG due to dispersion. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1560
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 20:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Lightning Bolt2 wrote:yay... a ScR nerf thread! saying thats its more OP than the OP AR! No, it explicitly is not a nerf ScR thread. It is a SR is > AR in situation A while AR > SR in situation B. I've clearly laid out some scenarios where AR is better. It's up to you to stop just playing rock, paper, scissors with just the biggest rocks you can find.
My issue is that currently with the AR vs the HMG Scissors cuts Rock. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1560
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 20:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Lightning Bolt2 wrote:yay... a ScR nerf thread! saying thats its more OP than the OP AR! No, it explicitly is not a nerf ScR thread. It is a SR is > AR in situation A while AR > SR in situation B. I've clearly laid out some scenarios where AR is better. It's up to you to stop just playing rock, paper, scissors with just the biggest rocks you can find. My issue is that currently with the AR vs the HMG Scissors cuts Rock. I see you there. What I would suggest for Heavy Weapons isn't that the DPS should necessarily increase, but they should do a kind of knockback with their high RoF. That way HMG vs. AR means that if you catch the heavy with his back turned, yes, he's probably dead, justifiably. But if he starts to get a shot on you, you will have a hard time getting damage on him consistantly.
That, or a Sharp Shooter skill similar to what the SMG has to reduce dispersion. Dispersion is dramatically shortening the effective range way below what it should be.
Edit: I have also noticed this week that I canGÇÖt sprint when getting hit, whether it is an HMG or an AR, or whatever shooting me. I am hoping this is a glitch because it is incredibly frustrating. I am not sure I would wish that on my enemies. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1560
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 21:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Pssst, someone did a test video, and showed that HMG's do 99% of their DPS if you can aim right at the middle since the crosshair is misleading, the HMG is laser accurate.
So his calculations are correct.
This is complete bull **** unless the heavy was crouching when doing the test. Cat Merc, I expect better of you!
I use the dot in the center to aim, not the big round circle. If you donGÇÖt get the dot on their head they will kill you first. That is the current HMG motto. With the AR you can spray and pray, but with the HMG if you are not perfectly accurate you barley do any damage. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1563
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 11:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Pssst, someone did a test video, and showed that HMG's do 99% of their DPS if you can aim right at the middle since the crosshair is misleading, the HMG is laser accurate.
So his calculations are correct. Yeah, I've figured that the 'accuracy' stat is hitscan based as a function of the reticle's distance from the center of a target, or from the center of a hitbox, or a certain radius from the hitbox.
Oh, that is what he meant by accurate. Well yes, the aim is 100% accurate, it is just that the bullets don't hit what you aim at! |
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