DUST Search - If you nerf the AR, you have to nerf the ASR

Aeon Amadi wrote:

I hear a lot of talk about recoil and dispersion but inevitably I always answer it the same way:

Recoil does not make the Assault Rifle overpowered. Any weapon is going to be accurate as the dickens when aiming down the sights and when you implement "dispersion" in a hit scan based system, it's almost entirely cosmetic and ultimately arbitrary. You're not firing rounds, you're firing a vector that intersects with another line and inevitably stops. This is not Battlefield 3, there are no bullet physics.

Dispersion is entirely client based and you can readily see this just based on observation, and it applies with almost all first person shooters - save those that have extensive game design around bullet physics like Battlefield 3 and the Sniper franchise. A good example of this is the "headshot glitch" in which they are able to fire at you because the rounds come from their camera, which is located in their head and not the weapon.

Recoil, on the other hand, is slightly more prominent. It usually doesn't kick in until you're about halfway through the magazine but either way you should be firing in bursts anyway and even if the recoil is ten times that of any other weapon you can manage it just by firing in smaller bursts. Tapping the R1 button reduces the recoil so significantly that a thread regarding the phenomenon actually made it on the "feedback/discussions weekly report" that CCP does, and it was functioning as intended. Because it is. All games do this.

The reason this is important information is because inevitably it falls back on the fact that it's a vector and there's no way to simulate dispersion without the dreaded "random bullet spread" effect. When you fire at a wall, you see the rounds impact in multiple areas - whereas another player will see the rounds land in a single location.

Now, I could go on and talk about all the game mechanics for hours but inevitably what's important is the disparity between the Assault Rifle and the Scrambler Rifle/Assault Scrambler Rifle. The design philosophy is that the Assault Rifle is meant for high damage, low range engagements - a stark contrast to, say, the Rail Rifle which is the exact opposite. The Scrambler Rifle is intended to come in at a close second in terms of range engagement.

If you compare the Assault Rifle and Scrambler Rifle variants, you'll notice that this is -mostly- true as the Assault Scrambler Rifle does have a higher effective range while retaining a similar optimal range, as indicated here:

http://i.imgur.com/krRr5EZ.png

The issue, however, is that both have roughly the same DPS. One has higher damage with lower fire rate, the other has lower damage with higher fire rate. If the Assault Rifle is intended to be a high damage weapon with low range, inevitably it falls back on how it compares to the Assault Scrambler Rifle's range. If both have the same DPS (which, they do) than the range is a buff against the Assault Rifle.

I've honestly been curious as to why the Assault Scrambler Rifle hasn't been used more frequently as it's a fierce weapon to compete against on the field even with Assault Rifle Proficiency 4, but I digress.

The Assault Rifle does not need a Recoil/Dispersion nerf. Range doesn't mean anything if you're not accurate enough to engage at those ranges and taking away from this will increase the disparity in a negative way. On the other hand, you can reduce the optimal range slighty (at the most by 10 meters) so that the range scales accordingly, but even then this is too much of a difference as the Assault Scrambler Rifle isn't intended to have the highest range. With which, you have to be careful how you proceed.

Reason being? If you reduce the range on the Assault Rifle, all of a sudden the Assault Scrambler Rifle is a much better alternative due to it's similar DPS output, negligible overheat mechanic and better performance at range. If you reduce the range on the Assault Rifle, you have to reduce the damage on the Assault Scrambler Rifle, otherwise there isn't enough diversity in the play style to matter - one is obviously better than the other.

Almost all of the issues presented, like Recoil/Dispersion, is entirely circumstantial. Sure, it does really good headshot damage but considering that the Scrambler Pistol does 400% of it's normal damage on a headshot, you can't use it as a legitimate argument because there are weapons that out perform the Assault Rifle for that reason.


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The Robot Devil Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 985	Posted - 2013.09.14 16:07:00 - [1] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I hear a lot of talk about recoil and dispersion but inevitably I always answer it the same way: Recoil does not make the Assault Rifle overpowered. Any weapon is going to be accurate as the dickens when aiming down the sights and when you implement "dispersion" in a hit scan based system, it's almost entirely cosmetic and ultimately arbitrary. You're not firing rounds, you're firing a vector that intersects with another line and inevitably stops. This is not Battlefield 3, there are no bullet physics. Dispersion is entirely client based and you can readily see this just based on observation, and it applies with almost all first person shooters - save those that have extensive game design around bullet physics like Battlefield 3 and the Sniper franchise. A good example of this is the "headshot glitch" in which they are able to fire at you because the rounds come from their camera, which is located in their head and not the weapon. Recoil, on the other hand, is slightly more prominent. It usually doesn't kick in until you're about halfway through the magazine but either way you should be firing in bursts anyway and even if the recoil is ten times that of any other weapon you can manage it just by firing in smaller bursts. Tapping the R1 button reduces the recoil so significantly that a thread regarding the phenomenon actually made it on the "feedback/discussions weekly report" that CCP does, and it was functioning as intended. Because it is. All games do this. The reason this is important information is because inevitably it falls back on the fact that it's a vector and there's no way to simulate dispersion without the dreaded "random bullet spread" effect. When you fire at a wall, you see the rounds impact in multiple areas - whereas another player will see the rounds land in a single location. Now, I could go on and talk about all the game mechanics for hours but inevitably what's important is the disparity between the Assault Rifle and the Scrambler Rifle/Assault Scrambler Rifle. The design philosophy is that the Assault Rifle is meant for high damage, low range engagements - a stark contrast to, say, the Rail Rifle which is the exact opposite. The Scrambler Rifle is intended to come in at a close second in terms of range engagement. If you compare the Assault Rifle and Scrambler Rifle variants, you'll notice that this is -mostly- true as the Assault Scrambler Rifle does have a higher effective range while retaining a similar optimal range, as indicated here: http://i.imgur.com/krRr5EZ.png The issue, however, is that both have roughly the same DPS. One has higher damage with lower fire rate, the other has lower damage with higher fire rate. If the Assault Rifle is intended to be a high damage weapon with low range, inevitably it falls back on how it compares to the Assault Scrambler Rifle's range. If both have the same DPS (which, they do) than the range is a buff against the Assault Rifle. I've honestly been curious as to why the Assault Scrambler Rifle hasn't been used more frequently as it's a fierce weapon to compete against on the field even with Assault Rifle Proficiency 4, but I digress. The Assault Rifle does not need a Recoil/Dispersion nerf. Range doesn't mean anything if you're not accurate enough to engage at those ranges and taking away from this will increase the disparity in a negative way. On the other hand, you can reduce the optimal range slighty (at the most by 10 meters) so that the range scales accordingly, but even then this is too much of a difference as the Assault Scrambler Rifle isn't intended to have the highest range. With which, you have to be careful how you proceed. Reason being? If you reduce the range on the Assault Rifle, all of a sudden the Assault Scrambler Rifle is a much better alternative due to it's similar DPS output, negligible overheat mechanic and better performance at range. If you reduce the range on the Assault Rifle, you have to reduce the damage on the Assault Scrambler Rifle, otherwise there isn't enough diversity in the play style to matter - one is obviously better than the other. Almost all of the issues presented, like Recoil/Dispersion, is entirely circumstantial. Sure, it does really good headshot damage but considering that the Scrambler Pistol does 400% of it's normal damage on a headshot, you can't use it as a legitimate argument because there are weapons that out perform the Assault Rifle for that reason. The problem is just what you say. If we change ranges then other stats will have to change. I say start slow and use little changes. This game needs diversity and the AR doesn't allow for it. The ranges need to be looked at and adjusted or we will never see anything but ARs.