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1st Lieutenant Tiberius
0uter.Heaven
87
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 21:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just had a thought, I think we need to change the community's view about proto gear.
They are expensive elite pieces of gear which should be reserved for the highest risk, but also the highest rewarding, battles (currently this case is Planetary Conquest, hopefully this will be reflected in Factional Warfare as well)
Not for public contracts worth on average 200k per win (and thats if you're at least top 3)
Run it for important battles or for testing purposes (most CPU/PG for those shiny new toys) but for pubs what better way to show skill than to ADV Stomp!
I run ADV A/1 with the CRW or the ELM and more recently a Dren Logi (which is STD) and I still do as well as I would with a proto suit. I have mad respect for anyone who kills me with ADV equipment, as its always an exciting fight.
Now since we cant show "skill" with who can bunny hop and strafe their way into 3-4 kills the most, we should show it by ADV Stomping!
I think if we could just carry this mentality of "I am a merc and ISK weighs more than KDR bragging rights" it could be a positive turn for the community.
And on that note, abolish KD and bring in ISK loss/cost stats!
This idea is centralized upon the importance of our wallet and avoiding the atrophy of ISK resources, some people will throw upwards of 5 to 10 full prototype suits to win public matches, why are they throwing millions of ISK into a PUBLIC CONTRACT?, a "low" (except when they proto stomp) risk and low reward contract.
And I have been on both sides. Currently I'd rather take seeing the defeat screen and not losing any suits at all, in the end I actually profited from that loss.
This new mentality I've taken has made the game different for me, I find now when I run solo or in small 3 man squads I play less aggressively and focus on a single objective without running around the battlefield. I seem to just watch clone after clone rush into an objective dying but 10 meters from their original point of cover. At least this gives me the opportunity to bring myself and 2 others into a flank and pincer them, winning the engagement and, more often than not, the game.
thoughts?,
Tib. |
SgtDoughnut
M.E.R.C. Elite D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
14
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Posted - 2013.09.07 21:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
An easy way to stop proto stomping is to divide battles into 3 teirs, teir one basic/milita only low risk/low reward. Teir 2 Adv and lower higher risk higher reward. Tier 3 Proto and below highest risk highest reward, you can bring any suit into teir 3 but you know people will be running around in proto, so thats the risk you are taking. |
1st Lieutenant Tiberius
0uter.Heaven
87
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Posted - 2013.09.07 21:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thats a good idea, and what you're basically saying is gear based matchmaking.
People will say that it wont work because what if they bring Proto weapons or modules or whatever.
Well, I think gear based match making is absolutely viable. in STD low risk contracts you can ONLY use STD suits, in ADV medium risk matches you can ONLY use ADV suits, and in High risk contracts there are no restrictions.
BUT this restriction is purely for suits and does not apply to weapons or modules or the like, WHY? because the suits are balanced by CPU and PG output.
Simple. |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder.
374
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Posted - 2013.09.07 22:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't have Militia. ADV suits cost roughly 60-70k and they are my cheap suits. |
SCAT mania
Seraphim Initiative..
390
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 22:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote:Thats a good idea, and what you're basically saying is gear based matchmaking.
People will say that it wont work because what if they bring Proto weapons or modules or whatever.
Well, I think gear based match making is absolutely viable. in STD low risk contracts you can ONLY use STD suits, in ADV medium risk matches you can ONLY use ADV suits, and in High risk contracts there are no restrictions.
BUT this restriction is purely for suits and does not apply to weapons or modules or the like, WHY? because the suits are balanced by CPU and PG output.
Simple. This^^ I know in eve when you play security missions some of em have ship restrictions, so can't see why suit restrictions are not implemented already. |
Andius Fidelitas
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
104
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 22:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
I actually like this idea. For those who are interested in a somewhat fair fight, public contract split into different divisions with progressively higher risks and rewards in PvP matches sounds brilliant!
However, I still want to preserve a free-for-all like we still have, because for me, being restricted to my own level defeats the purpose of increasing in power and level. In Eve online, the whole end point of skilling up is to become more powerfull and adaptable. I still enjoy matches were different levels of might clash together. But if I am ever in the mood for something more "sports" like, then different tiered based matches would be my cup of tea. |
1st Lieutenant Tiberius
0uter.Heaven
88
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 22:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Free for all would be the high risk high reward districts. Contracts which have no intel on what meta level opponents one will be facing |
SgtDoughnut
M.E.R.C. Elite D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
16
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Posted - 2013.09.07 22:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Justin Tymes wrote:I don't have Militia. ADV suits cost roughly 60-70k and they are my cheap suits. everyone has access to all militia gear |
1st Lieutenant Tiberius
0uter.Heaven
88
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 22:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
SgtDoughnut wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:I don't have Militia. ADV suits cost roughly 60-70k and they are my cheap suits. everyone has access to all militia gear
Also, since you're gallente Tymes, you have access to the g-1 series militia starter suit BPOs, those 3 low slots sure look good... |
MarasdF Loron
Dark Knightz Corp.
121
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 22:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
So you are talking about the no risk, all reward stuff as having some sort of weakness to it, lol. And that it should be used only in rare occasions, well, first of all you would have to make it risk vs reward stuff, or all risk, no reward. Only then would you see people stop using them all the time. |
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SgtDoughnut
M.E.R.C. Elite D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
16
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Posted - 2013.09.07 22:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Andius Fidelitas wrote:I actually like this idea. For those who are interested in a somewhat fair fight, public contract split into different divisions with progressively higher risks and rewards in PvP matches sounds brilliant!
However, I still want to preserve a free-for-all like we still have, because for me, being restricted to my own level defeats the purpose of increasing in power and level. In Eve online, the whole end point of skilling up is to become more powerfull and adaptable. I still enjoy matches were different levels of might clash together. But if I am ever in the mood for something more "sports" like, then different tiered based matches would be my cup of tea.
That is what the proto level is for, each level allows the stuff below it to be accessed. |
SgtDoughnut
M.E.R.C. Elite D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
19
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 22:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:So you are talking about the no risk, all reward stuff as having some sort of weakness to it, lol. And that it should be used only in rare occasions, well, first of all you would have to make it risk vs reward stuff, or all risk, no reward. Only then would you see people stop using them all the time.
You don't quite get it, there would be 3 teirs of contracts a low risk/low reward that only allows standard/miltia suits in the contract. A medium risk/medium reward that allows adv/standard suits to be used. And then a high risk/reward grouping that allows all suits to be used. This way people who are new can opt for the low isk payout and only go against people with their level of gear, they however can also opt into the adv or even proto levels to try to make more money, but they run the risk of going against people who may have better gear, thats their choice at that point and they knowingly put themselves into that situation. This way they have no right to ***** about getting leveled by duvolles or gek's or exo-5 or freedoms. It levels the playing field but still gives the players choices as to how much they want to risk. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
3274
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 22:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
With the new aim assist system helping to level the playing field a bit, I see no need to segregate militia and proto users. If you want to run cheap fits, go for it. If you want the edge in combat and have a better chance at taking others down, you pay the premium.
This is not saying that the aim assist has made militia equal to proto. I'm saying that if you want an advantage, you're going to have to pay for it. |
1st Lieutenant Tiberius
0uter.Heaven
90
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 22:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:With the new aim assist system helping to level the playing field a bit, I see no need to segregate militia and proto users. If you want to run cheap fits, go for it. If you want the edge in combat and have a better chance at taking others down, you pay the premium.
This is not saying that the aim assist has made militia equal to proto. I'm saying that if you want an advantage, you're going to have to pay for it.
This brings up a good point, this idea I have might be too premature for dust's current state, but I think as the player population increases to levels like Planetside 2 this "choice based segregation" could be implemented well.
I think as a merc we would be more aware of risk and reward, with the cost of suits as well as how expensive biomass is if i were myself in new eden I would like to know the balance of risk and reward for contracts to be able to minimize costs and maximize profits. |
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1226
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 23:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Since 1.4 I have found that using proto in pubs is going to empty my wallet faster than it can replenish itself (granted it would take a long time, but still I like to be in the positive even if I don't need it). And with the payouts often being less than 200k in ambush, if I die more than once I am in the hole (2 suits cost me 366k currently).
I have always wanted to see KDR as a stat gone, and I think the idea of ISK loss/gain stats at the end of the match would be pretty awesome. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
2056
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 23:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
But what happens when you have 300 million + ISK?
Money is irrelevant for many people :/ |
1st Lieutenant Tiberius
0uter.Heaven
94
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 23:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
I understand that and its always a rush going against you and other vets who field their best each game, i'm not saying devoid the game of challenge but rather allow players to get better at their own pace through choices.
This is more to cater to beginning and intermediate players as they eventually evolve into the new veterans.
we need more incentive to run the suits that we have through the SP that we gained, not just busting out 3 mil to get to proto and thats it, with the amount of gear in this game we need to be able to use all of them.
We will then get to see interesting threads on general discussion like; "come over to STD contracts and watch me own you in MLT scrub"
If you want a test of a skill go MLT stomp, and send me a squad invite because I want in on it |
Soldier of Mawat
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
160
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 00:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
What about BRO stomping? For the past month or two I have pretty much only played with my dragonfly assault with a toxin and I have been able to stay above a 3.0 KRD. Some of the best games I've ever played I used the dragonfly suit. |
Rynoceros
Rise of Old Dudes
670
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 00:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
MM based on total Meta Level per suit. Suits with 0-15 total Meta are eligible for lower tier. Suits with 16-30 total Meta are eligible for mid tier battles. Suits with 30+ total Meta go to Pro level.
Too easy?
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1st Lieutenant Tiberius
0uter.Heaven
94
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 01:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:MM based on total Meta Level per suit. Suits with 0-15 total Meta are eligible for lower tier. Suits with 16-30 total Meta are eligible for mid tier battles. Suits with 30+ total Meta go to Pro level.
Too easy?
I think its just too complicated because of how many different combinations will be included and excluded in particular modes.
Simply restrict by suit, the cpu and pg alone will balance the game, it'll also be interesting how efficient good players can fit their suits, balancing prototype weaponry with adv modules or vice versa |
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SgtDoughnut
M.E.R.C. Elite D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
28
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 02:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Since 1.4 I have found that using proto in pubs is going to empty my wallet faster than it can replenish itself (granted it would take a long time, but still I like to be in the positive even if I don't need it). And with the payouts often being less than 200k in ambush, if I die more than once I am in the hole (2 suits cost me 366k currently). I have always wanted to see KDR as a stat gone, and I think the idea of ISK loss/gain stats at the end of the match would be pretty awesome.
so much this please, i hate having to have a spreadsheet open on my netbook to keep track of gain/loss |
SgtDoughnut
M.E.R.C. Elite D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
28
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 02:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:But what happens when you have 300 million + ISK?
Money is irrelevant for many people :/ Money is irrelevant for me as well and I only have 50 mill in my pocket ( i have more spread around on alts but thats besides the point) I understand you team players have infinite isk due to you locking your districts but not everybody has that. For you it would either encourage you to play against people who had similar levels of gear (basic vs basic, adv vs adv, etc) or you could just hang out in the proto league all day and still try to proto stomp, you just wouldn't be getting people who are fresh out of boot camp.
And yes i know some "pro" players derive some form of sick pleasure from stomping the crap out of people who don't stand a chance, honestly most pro's i know from TF2, BF, and planetside 2 don't like that kind of fighting, they find it boring an well unfair. They want the hard fought battles just like the rest of us. |
Shadow of War88
0uter.Heaven
67
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 10:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
I dont happen to share your point of view, however less proto in pubs would help new players out. But if you set foot on the battlefield representing a top tier corp like 0.H, or you are a closed beta veteran why run anything less than proto after all the hard grinding and time and energy put in to get access to that 1 item.
with 1.4 deployment i have been noticing veterans downgrading their equipment because of how lethal weapons are with the increased hit detection and aim assist.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3908
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 10:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
ISK efficiency stats are something we've been asking for since well back into closed beta.
ISK value destroyed/ISK destruction per minute. ISK value lost/ISK loss per minute. ISK efficiency calculated from the above numbers. |
Viktor Hadah Jr
Negative-Impact Cult of War
86
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 10:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
WTF i am well aware i stand near alone on this but i wear full standard gear and i can afford proto i have 100's mil's of ISK but i wear standard because i like the challenge of being able to take down protosuits and the acomplishment of doing something hard like that. If i were to be put up against other people who wear standard the fun would just disappear. |
SgtDoughnut
M.E.R.C. Elite D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
39
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 10:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
Shadow of War88 wrote:I dont happen to share your point of view, however less proto in pubs would help new players out. But if you set foot on the battlefield representing a top tier corp like 0.H, or you are a closed beta veteran why run anything less than proto after all the hard grinding and time and energy put in to get access to that 1 item.
with 1.4 deployment i have been noticing veterans downgrading their equipment because of how lethal weapons are with the increased hit detection and aim assist.
I havent noticed even a slight downgrade in weapons if anything i see even more duvolle and exo-5 than before since these weapons just destroy people left and right. Still see plenty of proto stompers ot there, entire squads of people in nothing but black suits, running proto SCR, AR, MD, HMG, and of course thales (when your a sniper why wouldnt you use an even more valuable rifle). Can't swing a dead cat without hitting proto bears in public matches and thats fine cause it makes me grin huge when i kill them with my 0 isk militia suit. But I would like the option and i think many high level players would actually like it as well if they could not look like they are using a crutch all the time by having that proto all the time. Honestly if you know your on an even playing field (such as all basic suits) then nobody can accuse you of needing that gear as a crutch. |
SgtDoughnut
M.E.R.C. Elite D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
39
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 10:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
Once again for those who don't get what I am proposing. MLT/Standard would only allow mlt/standard suits and not pay much at all ADV level would allow you to use ADV/STD/MLT suits and have a medium pay out PROTO would allow you to use PROTO/ADV/STD/MLT suits and have the highest payout, what we have now this way those who like to use mlt/adv suits against proto can still do so and you have a full range of options at your disposal. This gives new players and people who don't feel confident to take on proto players without an even playing field the ability to still advance and move forward without getting stomped repeatedly by people with better gear, weather or not that gear is the reason they are losing. |
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