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George Moros
WarRavens
League of Infamy
81
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Posted - 2013.09.07 18:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:I use a Covenant sniper rifle with 3 complex damage mods and kill everything in 1 shot, worst case scenario 2 shots, AT MOST.
I have sniper operation level 2.
: /
What are you talking about bros.
You are either incredibly lucky, and always end up fighting against militia-fit noobs in pub matches, or downright lying. I have sniper proficiency 3 and use charge sniper (the one that does most damage), with complex mods (what else?). This means I do over 400 dmg per fully charged shot.
In pub matches, if I'm shooting a guy at full health, there's probably less than 50% chance I'll do a OHK. Anything other than pubs, the situation is even worse. Fully tanked proto medium suits can go over 1000 HP, proto heavies go well over 1500 now. That means 2-3 fully charged shots to take down someone, in rare cases even 4! Anything else than a charge (or officer) rifle means you have to empty your clip to kill a proto suit (tactical snipers would actually need 2 clips to take down a heavy!).
Exception to all this is, of course, headshot, which you can score either by luck, or if you're shooting someone standing still (other sniper or some noob). There are people here on forums who claim they score regular headshots even on moving targets, but I'm sure there aren't many of them who can pull this off. Nevertheless, situations where I did score a headshot with fully charged shot and the guy was still standing are not that uncommon too.
TcuBe3 wrote:
I'm not saying you aren't a team player but, statistically the worst players on the team with the least amount of contribution to the team are snipers. Sure there are great snipers out there, they are specialists.
Dedicated snipers can and will score 15+ kills in a match rather regularly (depends on circumstances, I've seen snipers doing 40+ kills in a pub match). Saying that they didn't contribute by wiping off 15 people is rather silly.
People seem to forget that killing is sniper's primary duty on the battlefield. Sure, recon is important too, but if recon is sniper's primary duty, give them binoculars, not rifles! Also, snipers can't hack objectives, drop nanos/uplinks or repair armor, and still be snipers. If they can't kill effectively, then there really isn't much sense for them to be in a match.
DUST is no heaven for snipers, although some people still insist that it is, because there's no rifle sway. In FPS games where you do have sway, you don't have to land 2-3 consecutive shots to take someone out - that's a big difference. |
George Moros
WarRavens
League of Infamy
81
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 22:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:Cass Caul wrote:You even said that your new map design philosophy is to stop snipers from getting up high. Each of the new maps has either structures that are too sloped to stand atop of or they damage you for being on. Their mountainous and well developed terrain also prevents commonly traversed terrain that can be guarded against infantry movement. Of course. You're a sniper, not a camper. A sniper takes a shot and switches to another position. No "I camp here, take a killshot and move 2 steps back so they don't see me." Sooner or later you will even get a cloak device. Also how do you think your victims felt? Shot out of nowhere, you die and there wa snothing you could do about it. Not it fells about right. I mean you complain that you can't kill with a single shot. Of course you can't. You're almost invulnerable because you're so far away. The only valid complaint I can see is, that snipers can't see to its effective range.
This "a good sniper takes a shot and moves to a different position" argument is commonplace, but not "entirely accurate".
I assure you mate, whenever you see that a sniper scored 20+ kills in a match, he didn't take a shot (or 2, or 3) and moved someplace else. He was camping at a spot with good FOV at the "action", which at the same time has good cover from enemy sniper fire. There aren't many such spots in the game, but there are a few, and all good snipers know them. For "moving to another place" to make sense, this other place can't be 10 meters away - it must be "different part of the map" away. Otherwise, counter snipers will find you just as easily as if you didn't move at all. So, if a sniper would follow the routine you mentioned, he would spend 2/3 of the battle just running around. In my book, that is the very definition of being useless to your team.
Also, I believe that no "pro" sniper in DUST expects to OHK everything or otherwise he'll start whining on forums that CCP hates snipers. Having to empty an entire clip of a regular sniper rifle (that's 5 rounds) in order to kill someone is another thing entirely.
And, being far away is not equivalent to being invulnerable. Whatever I can shoot at, can shoot back at me. One legitimate gripe someone could have against snipers is that the only effective counter for them is - another sniper. That mechanics is not compatible with rock-paper-scissors concept of the game. However, I fail to see any reasonable mechanic that would circumvent this problem other than "lets discourage sniping by making it too hard to do effectively".
As for the only valid complain you mentioned - I'm not sure whether this problem really exists or is it merely a subjective opinion. Just the other day I had a duel with another sniper who was sitting on top of the MCC. I could clearly see him, although he was outside my sniper's range (farther than 600m). I actually had to move closer to get him, and managed to score a headshot kill from 555m. Pure luck for the headshot, but it was complete joy to take a proto callogi sniper that way. :) |
George Moros
WarRavens
League of Infamy
81
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 22:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
TcuBe3 wrote:
Unfortunately, in skirmish which is the mode used to gain territory i.e. PC battles. I don't care about kills I care about holding ground and objectives. Yes a sniper can contain an enemy unit to a certain portion of the map and suppress the enemy but for how long? How many snipers do we need on the team? When a sniper is perched in a place on the map while the rest of the team is firing, maneuvering, talking and hacking points their contribution is limited.
I see snipers as primarily a pub match role. Are there snipers in PC battles? Sure! But they ultimately get counter sniped or the enemy team just pushes around them to hack the point.
Again, I'm not generalizing, There are amazing snipers out there but the contribution from a heavy or assault killing people in the squad is different then a sniper who is sitting on the top of a building stationary.
So are Snipers necessary, yes they are but again... The point of these changes in 1.4 IMHO is to deter the average user from sniping and thin out the population of snipers in the game. Only the specialists that are dedicated to sniping will continue doing ti.
When there are too many snipers out there the game isn't fun... Reminds me of snipe maps on counter strike back in the day.
Of course it makes no sense to have a team full of snipers. Or even half of them for that matter. IMHO, how many snipers a team needs depends on type of map and/or match. On some maps, having more than just one sniper is pointless. On some, 3-4 well placed snipers can massacre the enemy and completely deny him the ability to advance.
And I agree with you, sniper can't do much to help his team except to kill the enemy and give intel on movements. That's exactly why they need to be good at killing. If they can't do that, then there's very little point in having them around.
As for counter sniping - so what if I get counter sniped? I personally hate snipers with severe loss aversion. If I'm on a good spot, with plenty of targets, and I'm making a difference on the flow of the battle, who cares if someone takes me out? I use a logi suit, so there's always a drop uplink nearby. Respawn, redeploy either to a location with better cover, or from which I can take care of the guy who killed me, and back to business. :P |
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