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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
242
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Posted - 2013.09.06 13:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
The problem with logis is that they have to many module slots, to much pg cpu and not enough relevant bonuses!! The bonuses dont have to be strong, but that doesnt mean you cant have more than 2?
Logis need to swap there module slots with the assult class
have the same pg/cpu as the assult currently,
a bonus then needs to be applied to drastically reduce the requirments of equipment, so that a logi will be able to fit out all of their equipment for the same requirments as an assault running 1 equipment,
then you need a bonus to nanite cluster capacity, as much as 50%, this should be applied to all nanohives
finally repair tools need either a range or number of targets to repair bonus, this makes the multi tool even more powerful
This would be a great improvement for logis |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
242
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 13:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
RydogV wrote:Double Rep range is not a decent bonus. For one, with the changes to health bar visibility in the 1.4 update you can barely tell when someone needs reps even if they are standing right in front of you. So extending the range is no good IMO.
As for changing Logistics bonuses, I thought that was in the works already. Although, I am pretty happy with Minmater Logi bonuses as they stand right now.
And I honestly can't believe we are talking about Logistics being OP again. This is pipe dream fantasy world urban legend crap now. I am a 17+ million SP Minmater Logi with maxed Electronics/Engineering and pretty much all efficiency skills maxed and I cannot fit my Proto suit to reach 800 hit points. And that is running mediocre equipment.
I must be playing a different game tho, because I tend to get killed by all weapons and classes pretty evenly.
They are working on it, but they have encountered a problem with permissions, it would appear the setter and getter codes arent working properly!! |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
250
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Posted - 2013.09.06 17:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:If we're going to change logistic bonuses, they need to be based on equipment from a general sense and not tied specifically to certain modules. That's completely shortsighted when you think of other gadgets we might be getting. Also, if you take away my hacking bonus, I'm officially done with Dust. well hacking bonus is minmatar racial logi bonus, we dont needmto change , prehaps we could have a skill that just improves equipme t efficency, while it sounds ambiguous, it effects each equipment differently!!
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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
250
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 17:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Cosgar wrote:If we're going to change logistic bonuses, they need to be based on equipment from a general sense and not tied specifically to certain modules. That's completely shortsighted when you think of other gadgets we might be getting. Also, if you take away my hacking bonus, I'm officially done with Dust. Why would that be? If they changed the bonuses, there's a chance that as part of such a major revision, they'd re-credit SP spent in those specific areas, as we're talking about redefining a role entirely, not just nerfing a single suit. As well, what if that hacking bonus were to be applied to Scout suits? Or maybe to the as-yet undiscussed Spec Ops specialization that could be seen to be a Medium suit back on Buckingham before they migrated us to other test servers? Honestly, I think giving a reconnaissance focused suit a way to slip around and quickly flip objectives would be a great way to reward those who specced into that suit.
Heh actually, now that you talk about, prehaps that would make sense, a scout should be able to hack quickly, its bit useless if you sneak around them only to be caught when you hack the objective!!
I dont see why you should force a logi to fit all slots, its all about choice, how do you make a role your own, logis can keep the module layout but by giving a cpu/pg reduction, and bonuses to equipment means you can be a logi with only 2-3 slots dependent on your role or style!! |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
251
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 18:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Cosgar wrote:If we're going to change logistic bonuses, they need to be based on equipment from a general sense and not tied specifically to certain modules. That's completely shortsighted when you think of other gadgets we might be getting. Also, if you take away my hacking bonus, I'm officially done with Dust. Why would that be? If they changed the bonuses, there's a chance that as part of such a major revision, they'd re-credit SP spent in those specific areas, as we're talking about redefining a role entirely, not just nerfing a single suit. As well, what if that hacking bonus were to be applied to Scout suits? Or maybe to the as-yet undiscussed Spec Ops specialization that could be seen to be a Medium suit back on Buckingham before they migrated us to other test servers? Honestly, I think giving a reconnaissance focused suit a way to slip around and quickly flip objectives would be a great way to reward those who specced into that suit. When I first logged in for Uprising 1.0 I carefully planned out my build. Calculated how much SP everything would cost, what kind of fit I wanted to run and what weapon I wanted to use. One of the hardest choices was what logi suit I wanted to use- Gallente or Minmatar. I spent a good 2 hours, weighing the options on if I wanted a fully equipment oriented armor tanking brick or a mobile scout/logi hybrid suit that could hack things like a boss. I specced into Minmatar logi because of that hacking bonus and made a build specifically for it along with my other equipment fittings. I'm sick and tired of CCP flipping everything around because of a bunch of ill informed morons listening to other ill informed morons to the point that people don't even know what they want anymore and the devs just bend over backwards to appease the current kneejerk reaction. All this drama started over one logistics suit that was extremely OP and I thought this would be resolved after it was nerfed (way too hard) but I was wrong. It's a matter of principles here. How many times is something that players invested their hard earned SP into going to be turned upside down due to a trail of tears by narrow minded, short sighted idiots? You take away my hacking bonus, I better get a SP respec so I can spec into Caldari Assault with an AR since that's apparently the only way you can safely play the game. You guys can have your little IRC circle jerk about re-balancing the game if you want, but if we keep ******* each other over like this, nobody is going to stick around to play.
Calm yourself, Logis can keep there module layout, hell the min can probably keep the hack bonus, I dont have a problem with the suits being OP what I do have problem with is that a logi can fill all the roles this game needs, if you cant see that then your just kidding yourself from a suit that really shines!!
Logis make better scouts than a scout suit, Logis make better assaults than assaults, Logis make better heavies than heavies
You cant deny it, you know you cant, we're not talking about ruining it, were talking about getting it to a point where it doesnt infringe on other suits roles!!
Logis should be able to play multiple roles, from hacker, to medic, to engineer, to demolitions, to communications, to ewarfare. But other suits need to have their own roles to.
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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
251
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 18:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vin Mora wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:How to balance logis?
Change passive reps to 10% CPU/PG on equipment per level. Give us the same PG/CPU as assault suits.
...
Profit!
Specific equipment bonuses are cool, as long as they don't pidgeonhole each suit into a specific role, making them inferior to the other suits for other equipment based tasks. Why not give the Assaults the same slots and CPU/PG as Logis; buff Assaults, don't nerf Logis. I have a hard enough time playing my role correctly without such a nerf.
Why not, that probably makes more sense!! |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
268
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Posted - 2013.09.06 23:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Bittersteel the Bastard wrote:Cosgar wrote:[quote=Bittersteel the Bastard] Read the last two pages, very good ideas circulating. Is the current idea most people have agreed upon the boost to repair tool range? Because I feel that is bit pointless. What I'd rather see is have TTK go back to Chromosome levels through weapon rebalancing and then giving Assault suits a built in damage mod. That will help with their assaulting role. If you want logis to focus on equipment and not tank I still believe that adding a new fitting requirement would be the easiest way to do that. You'd reduce logis PG/CPU which would give them limited choices in the slots and would not allow them to tank as easily. They would need to pick and choose and nobody would choose the logi suit as the suit to stack HP on anymore due to the limited PG/CPU. However by adding an EQ fitting requirement to suits you could give each suit a certain amount of EQ. Let's say for an example a suit has 300 CPU and 250 PG but only has 50 EQ. The logi suit on the other hand would only have maybe 100 CPU and 75 PG with 125 EQ. (These are just random numbers). Adding another bar is pointless, wasteful and a worse idea than what you seem to think has been going on. It's a slightly LESS bad idea than thinking an on-topic post which got no replies was worth making another thread about, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. The actual idea people were kicking around is a reduction of PG/CPU on Logi suits, but paired with a fitting bonus for equipment, so everything in your equipment slots will cost less of your now-limited PG/CPU to equip. That way, a Logi has those extra high, low and equipment slots, but doesn't have extra PG and CPU to make a massive tank of any kind (armour, shield, dual, stealth, speed) unless they skimp on their equipment slots to do it. Even then, it won't make them any better than one of the dedicated-role suits fitting for the same task. What they CAN do is bring more equipment (A LOT more) with minimal penalty to their ability to fit for other areas. The talk about a repair tool range buff was a possible racial bonus, NOT the overall Logi bonus. And in that capacity, it's a really good idea, but it might need some testing to determine an appropriate value for this bonus and any others that might come up on the other Logi suits. The equipment bonuses would be more fitting if there were a secondary skill tree for equipment, similar to weapons as discussed here.
That's a point, I saw a post am while back, you need both more skills in the equipment section, and an actual bonus at the beginning of each tree!! |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
268
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 23:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Bittersteel the Bastard wrote:This bonus would come at the cost of the +5hp/s bonus logis already get right? And all suits would get some kind of inherent armor regen like the Minmatar medium/assault.
Would the min get a little extra then? It maybe 2 hp/s for other suits and 4 hp/s for mini?? |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
268
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 00:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Quick question... Is there really a logical reason why every suit should have passive armour rep built in? As far as I can see, adding that would further homogenise the two damage types, because everything has base regen now.
And stemming from that, if a suit SHOULD have a bonus like that, why would it be a support suit rather than one of the frontline suits. I think an armour repair buff would be a great bonus for one of the Heavy suits, but it doesn't really seem to fit the Logi role quite so well.
Because if you are the only logi catering for a whole squad, whos gonna heal you?? |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
268
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 00:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Quick question... Is there really a logical reason why every suit should have passive armour rep built in? As far as I can see, adding that would further homogenise the two damage types, because everything has base regen now.
And stemming from that, if a suit SHOULD have a bonus like that, why would it be a support suit rather than one of the frontline suits. I think an armour repair buff would be a great bonus for one of the Heavy suits, but it doesn't really seem to fit the Logi role quite so well. Because if you are the only logi catering for a whole squad, whos gonna heal you?? The armour repairers you have the forethought to fit, your repair nanohives, or bring back self-repairing Logis like we had when they first let us play with Repair Tools.
I like the idea of self repping, but you cant afford to waste nanohives, and rep modules dont always cut it!! |
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