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Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1660
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 21:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
Profile and Precision seem to be fluid, but to what degree?
What I mean is that when a scout (profile 45 db) walks into scan range of medium (precision of like 50). When does the scout become visible on radar? Where?
I've had a heavy go completely undetected until he was 1 meter behind me, for example. They have a profile up the roof, so there must have been a weak area on my radar (behind me). Is that so? Are there areas of radar where margin of error is raised?
Another example is today I sat hiding behind a crate after hacking an objective. A couple guys spawned in an uplink in the next room, I could tell because they showed up on my radar but not the Uplink but I heard uplink noise. Anyways he busts into the room and knew exactly where I was, when there were many identical hiding spots throughout the room. There was no hesitation when he entered the room.
Now granted he could've had Precision module, I doubt it. It's well known that scouts, although having a profile below many merc's precision can be detected regardless though much harder. I want to know is what scan profile vs. precision difference does it take to be absolutely undetected?
I also wonder if profile has a relation to the range of detection. For example, scout goes through a scanning circle of precision 50. At max range they would be undetected, I suppose, but at what encroaching range does said scout get picked up?
A lot of questions with answers that need thorough testing and information from where I can't find. |
Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet Top Men.
109
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 21:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
The tough part is setting up that testing. FW battles? I too have question regarding the scan related modules and the active scanner. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1663
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 21:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
I believe also that Profile has an effect on time remaining on radar after looking.
For instance, guy looks at scout. Obviously the scout will pop up on radar now, but if the guy looks away, how long will the scout remain on the radar? I believe precision profile also effects that. But again, to what degree? |
Yan Darn
DUST University Ivy League
61
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 21:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you can discover the answer to this, it'll be massively appreciated I'm sure.
Ideally CCP would just tell us.
Ideally... |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1665
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 21:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yan Darn wrote:If you can discover the answer to this, it'll be massively appreciated I'm sure.
Ideally CCP would just tell us.
Ideally... I checked the User Manual ..... If I found anything out I would've updated the Original Post ..... NOT UPDATED |
Absoliav
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
60
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 22:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sadly, there isn't really a way to test your Scan Profile, other than getting hit with an Active Scanner. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1665
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 22:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Absoliav wrote:Sadly, there isn't really a way to test your Scan Profile, other than getting hit with an Active Scanner. Actually you can't test with active scanner Active scanner is passive. If you are below the precision, you will not be detected by it at all. It will say "Scan Prevented" It's fulfilling but not useful for this |
Dust LAG-LAG-LAG-LAG 514
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
42
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 22:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
the scan feature is will work in process
lol CCP didnt want you to know |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2016
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 22:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
That's something the manufacturers aren't saying.
I suspect it's because their merchandise is defective and they don't want us to know. |
Lt Royal
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1619
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 23:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
IGÇÖm pretty sure scan profiles showing up on the minimap is when people sprint; sprinting with make you pop up on there and having a lower profile reduces you popping up when sprinting.
I haven't got a thread post link about it; as I really can't be bothered to go look for at right now.... |
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Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1668
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 00:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lt Royal wrote:IGÇÖm pretty sure scan profiles showing up on the minimap is when people sprint; sprinting with make you pop up on there and having a lower profile reduces you popping up when sprinting.
I haven't got a thread post link about it; as I really can't be bothered to go look for at right now.... OK that's some cool stuff to know
Anyone interested in helping me test this stuff join my channel bojo so we can talk planning and actually test everything I want to know. We will publish it and become famous. |
kiarbanor
S.e.V.e.N.
213
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 00:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Profile and Precision seem to be fluid, but to what degree?
What I mean is that when a scout (profile 45 db) walks into scan range of medium (precision of like 50). When does the scout become visible on radar? Where?
I've had a heavy go completely undetected until he was 1 meter behind me, for example. They have a profile up the roof, so there must have been a weak area on my radar (behind me). Is that so? Are there areas of radar where margin of error is raised?
Another example is today I sat hiding behind a crate after hacking an objective. A couple guys spawned in an uplink in the next room, I could tell because they showed up on my radar but not the Uplink but I heard uplink noise. Anyways he busts into the room and knew exactly where I was, when there were many identical hiding spots throughout the room. There was no hesitation when he entered the room.
Now granted he could've had Precision module, I doubt it. It's well known that scouts, although having a profile below many merc's precision can be detected regardless though much harder. I want to know is what scan profile vs. precision difference does it take to be absolutely undetected?
I also wonder if profile has a relation to the range of detection. For example, scout goes through a scanning circle of precision 50. At max range they would be undetected, I suppose, but at what encroaching range does said scout get picked up?
A lot of questions with answers that need thorough testing and information from where I can't find.
I've had some of this happen to me, too, and I have some SP into scan precision and dampening. I don't think the passive suit detection is working right. I've had it happen with a Logi and Scout. I can't imagine that every time this happened--which is numerous times so far--each Merc had a ton of SP into dampening. This has happened numerous times with Heavies not showing up. Something doesn't seem right. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1662
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 00:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
a squad mate may have scanned you and if you were hacking then he allready knows you are there it blinks... Like maybe he was check behind each box ?
but yeah I'd like some kind of UI to alert me when someone has picked me up on passive scan so I can know I should book it or fight |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
230
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 00:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Even if you get an answer, it probably won't help much. Scanning in general seems a bit flaky.
Today, I pointed a proto-scanner at a camping sniper and it told me nothing was there (The no errors message and nothing on radar). |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3647
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 01:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
I've had an enemy Scout lit up by my passive scanning, near my limit of 15m range, and when I moved in to attack him, a Heavy that was less than 5m from me cut me off. The Scout had been near the edge of my vision arc when it showed up. The Heavy stepped from behind a crate directly into my crosshairs and opened fire.
I was running a Dragonfly with a Basic Precision Enhancer, and I have my precision skill at level 3. I can't think of a fitting that would allow a Militia Heavy Frame to buff out my scan precision.
I've also, on another of my characters, lit up a Dragonfly Scout while running no scanning skills or mods on a Medium suit, while the Scout was crouched in a corner behind an objective. I've been able to reliably have Scouts who SHOULD be outside my scanning capabilities show up on my sensors while Heavies are evading detection in an otherwise-identical scenario.
EDIT: I should probably mention, sometimes it works exactly how it should. More often than not, to be fair. It's just that occasionally it really, REALLY doesn't work properly, and that's a problem. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1671
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 03:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:Even if you get an answer, it probably won't help much. Scanning in general seems a bit flaky.
Today, I pointed a proto-scanner at a camping sniper and it told me nothing was there (The no errors message and nothing on radar).
Edit: And in a reverse case, I scanned an area with the proto-scanner and it lit up a guy way off to my left. It seems flaky because we don't understand how it works |
Repe Susi
Rautaleijona Top Men.
637
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 05:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lt Royal wrote:IGÇÖm pretty sure scan profiles showing up on the minimap is when people sprint; sprinting with make you pop up on there and having a lower profile reduces you popping up when sprinting.
I haven't got a thread post link about it; as I really can't be bothered to go look for at right now....
CCP has confirmed that scan profile is static. No action of any kind changes your scan profile. Running, firing etc. does not affect your scan profile. |
Absoliav
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 05:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Absoliav wrote:Sadly, there isn't really a way to test your Scan Profile, other than getting hit with an Active Scanner. Actually you can't test with active scanner Active scanner is finite (solid). If you are below the precision, you will not be detected by it at all. It will say "Scan Prevented" It's fulfilling but not useful for this
It's better than nothing, in Chromsome, a lot of people thought Scanning was broken, at least now we have some indication of Profile efficiency, but I get your point, this would be easier if we had some sort training room, so we could test our fits out, turrets are also a good way to test what rises your profile, Heavies get targeted by them on sight, while Scouts have go unnoticed, unless they do something like shooting near the turret. |
Absoliav
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 05:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
Repe Susi wrote:Lt Royal wrote:IGÇÖm pretty sure scan profiles showing up on the minimap is when people sprint; sprinting with make you pop up on there and having a lower profile reduces you popping up when sprinting.
I haven't got a thread post link about it; as I really can't be bothered to go look for at right now.... CCP has confirmed that scan profile is static. No action of any kind changes your scan profile. Running, firing etc. does not affect your scan profile.
I believe that's how it's supposed to work, but there are many accounts that say otherwise, from my experience, I don't think the Profile/Scanning system is working as intend, and to make things worse, we have no clue how to tell if it is or isn't.
In my own personal opinion, I think CCP should either take another look at the current system and either revise it, or they should make some sort of way to inform us of our the effectiveness of our signature/precision, anything to clear up the confusion will help really. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3661
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 08:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Repe Susi wrote:Lt Royal wrote:IGÇÖm pretty sure scan profiles showing up on the minimap is when people sprint; sprinting with make you pop up on there and having a lower profile reduces you popping up when sprinting.
I haven't got a thread post link about it; as I really can't be bothered to go look for at right now.... CCP has confirmed that scan profile is static. No action of any kind changes your scan profile. Running, firing etc. does not affect your scan profile. At the time when CCP were confirming that, player testing confirmed that firing most weapons raised your profile. CCP have also confirmed there's a modifier on the Active Scanner that makes you more visible when activating it.
Sprinting definitely didn't increase your profile in the early days of Uprising, but firing a weapon did. Different weapons raised your profile by different amounts. I haven't tested it since then, or spoken to anyone who has, but at the time, the testing was verified by multiple sources. |
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OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
539
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 11:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
All scouts requiring some love and answers please sign an show your support here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1264361#post1264361 |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1677
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 18:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Repe Susi wrote:Lt Royal wrote:IGÇÖm pretty sure scan profiles showing up on the minimap is when people sprint; sprinting with make you pop up on there and having a lower profile reduces you popping up when sprinting.
I haven't got a thread post link about it; as I really can't be bothered to go look for at right now.... CCP has confirmed that scan profile is static. No action of any kind changes your scan profile. Running, firing etc. does not affect your scan profile. At the time when CCP were confirming that, player testing confirmed that firing most weapons raised your profile. CCP have also confirmed there's a modifier on the Active Scanner that makes you more visible when activating it. Sprinting definitely didn't increase your profile in the early days of Uprising, but firing a weapon did. Different weapons raised your profile by different amounts. I haven't tested it since then, or spoken to anyone who has, but at the time, the testing was verified by multiple sources. See this is what I am talking about. There is this thing called passive scanning, that none of the players are exactly sure how it works so there is much speculation. It's kind of hard to play a game when a key strategy to a whole class of mercs is based on speculative information. |
Yan Darn
DUST University Ivy League
113
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 19:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Repe Susi wrote:Lt Royal wrote:IGÇÖm pretty sure scan profiles showing up on the minimap is when people sprint; sprinting with make you pop up on there and having a lower profile reduces you popping up when sprinting.
I haven't got a thread post link about it; as I really can't be bothered to go look for at right now.... CCP has confirmed that scan profile is static. No action of any kind changes your scan profile. Running, firing etc. does not affect your scan profile. At the time when CCP were confirming that, player testing confirmed that firing most weapons raised your profile. CCP have also confirmed there's a modifier on the Active Scanner that makes you more visible when activating it. Sprinting definitely didn't increase your profile in the early days of Uprising, but firing a weapon did. Different weapons raised your profile by different amounts. I haven't tested it since then, or spoken to anyone who has, but at the time, the testing was verified by multiple sources.
A modifier you say? I thought you straight up lit up. That might explain why reds I'm actual trying to draw towards me just ignore me.
I've also encountered the light/heavy paradox. As if heavies aren't scary enough now.
Also it'd be nice to see how passive scanning works with vehicles - I only know they are strolling up behind me from the sound they make!
Hope this goes well Bojo! |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1682
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 20:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Yan Darn wrote: Also it'd be nice to see how passive scanning works with vehicles - I only know they are strolling up behind me from the sound they make!
Hope this goes well Bojo!
Well I can tell you that the vehicle active scanner sure as hell works.
I hope people enlist to help me test this stuff |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
172
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 20:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Since it seems relevant to this thread, I wanted to add that profile dampeners are affected by stacking penalties even though it's not listed in the module description. This was confirmed to me by CCP via ticket. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1687
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 20:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Since it seems relevant to this thread, I wanted to add that profile dampeners are affected by stacking penalties even though it's not listed in the module description. This was confirmed to me by CCP via ticket.
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Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1704
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 16:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP land here: You have reworked tacnet, in favor of scouts and scanners, but damn how are we supposed to know what's buffed/nerfed in TACNET if we don't even know the way it officially works? |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1797
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 03:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
Would anyone like to help me and Reav test this out (via FW) to test more suits?
EDIT: Since I am lead to believe that scanning is Sonar/Echolocation based, why would passive scanning be fluid at all? |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
907
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 04:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Repe Susi wrote:Lt Royal wrote:IGÇÖm pretty sure scan profiles showing up on the minimap is when people sprint; sprinting with make you pop up on there and having a lower profile reduces you popping up when sprinting.
I haven't got a thread post link about it; as I really can't be bothered to go look for at right now.... CCP has confirmed that scan profile is static. No action of any kind changes your scan profile. Running, firing etc. does not affect your scan profile. At the time when CCP were confirming that, player testing confirmed that firing most weapons raised your profile. CCP have also confirmed there's a modifier on the Active Scanner that makes you more visible when activating it. Sprinting definitely didn't increase your profile in the early days of Uprising, but firing a weapon did. Different weapons raised your profile by different amounts. I haven't tested it since then, or spoken to anyone who has, but at the time, the testing was verified by multiple sources. When heavies and tanks can be metres away and not on the minimap we know scanning is wonky.
CCP did confirm that scan profile was static - we normally take this to mean that no player action will modify said player's signature profile.
But afaik, CCP did not state anything about whether environmental factors influenced the scan calculations. I'm only bringing this up because I'm trying to make sense of the wonky scan behaviors. There are players out there who believe that intervening material will modify scan results. Personally i don't know - can't recall ever finding evidence of that. |
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