DUST Search - Shotgun Scouts after 1.4

Shotty GoBang wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Back after a couple of matches, and saw something VERY interesting.

Point-blank, back of the target's head, barely scratched him. But it DID register as a hit.

As he backed up, turned, then jumped right before I pulled the trigger, landed what SHOULD have been a close-range bodyshot dealing less damage than the Shotgun to the back of the head, and it killed him instantly.

Back in the VERY old days, people worked out that Shotgun spread wasn't a cone that started accurately around the barrel and narrowed down when you skill up, but a tapered cylinder that narrows down evenly along its entire length as you skill up. Pretty sure this is still the case, and I suspect they've either widened it slightly, or made the pellet placement more random within it.

Not sure why that would be done, particularly without being listed in the patch notes, but it's the theory I'm working from right now.

NOTE: Shotgun Operation 3 on the character this happened to.

Noticed a similar pattern (an issue seemingly separate from the damage delay):
A dead-on, point-blank shot scratches off maybe 10% of target shields.
Other shots deal disproportionately large damage.
Randomizing pellet patterns further is a peculiar approach to addressing SG hit detection.


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Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2013.09.03 14:45:00 - [1] - Quote Not sure about you guys, but I've been doing pretty good with my SGScout, managed to sneak up on the whole team the entire match, not sure if it had much to do with the hit detection, though I did notice my shots landing more often, I've been using more ambush tactics, helps to have a Flux Scanner.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2013.09.03 15:33:00 - [2] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Spec Ops Cipher wrote: Shotguns are useless, aim assist is OP as ****. Scouts are worse than ever Maybe we should start over? Absoliav's Academy experiences sound like more fun. Cute, just try the Scanner, I'm sure your experience on the field will be more positive, if you have one, I'm sure you'll find information of your enemies more useful than some extra health, after all, they don't know where your at, and with the Labs map, sneaking up on people has never been easier. But I'm sure already knew that.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2013.09.03 16:05:00 - [3] - Quote DTOracle wrote: Absoliav wrote: Shotty GoBang wrote: Spec Ops Cipher wrote: Shotguns are useless, aim assist is OP as ****. Scouts are worse than ever Maybe we should start over? Absoliav's Academy experiences sound like more fun. Cute, just try the Scanner, I'm sure your experience on the field will be more positive, if you have one, I'm sure you'll find information of your enemies more useful than some extra health, after all, they don't know where your at, and with the Labs map, sneaking up on people has never been easier. But I'm sure already knew that. The scanner works great. But it's a major resource hog on a scout suit, & requires a sacrifice that no scout can afford. On top of that, there is no WP benefit to running scanners(uplinks are still a better choice), making them even less appealing. That is true, putting one on does have a huge cost, but in the right environment it can be extremely helpful, in the new Labs map, I was completely able to avoid unwanted confrontation, while able to escape enemies that I failed to sneak up on, again, this might have been because of the new maps focus on CQC, but as for the SG....... I have notice some weird things. I was attacking an ADV Amarr, we got into a scuffle, I fired my SG a few times, I missed a bunch but the last shot I fired was towards his arm, he moved out the way and I killed him, now the issues is, I missed that shot, he was at least 2 feet away from that shot, I don't think it was a server issue, as it looked a lot like a hit delay issue I see a lot in CoD, I'd shoot at peoples legs and every now and again I'd score a headshot. I think the SG works fine, but I've been getting a lot of server type problems, like rubberbanding, which scored me a kill, but got me killed shortly afterwards.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 54	Posted - 2013.09.03 18:09:00 - [4] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Absoliav wrote: I think the SG works fine. It was in bad taste for me to mock your inexperience, Absoliav. For that, I apologize. I admire your enthusiasm and desire to assist. I run a proto scanner. You are absolutely correct in that it is hugely helpful. If the SG is working fine for you, then your experience is likely unique. It isn't working for the vast majority of us. - Shotty Thank you, I'm sorry to hear that a lot of you guys are having problems, after a few extra matches, I'm starting to find some problems myself, one of which is hit detection delay, and rubberbanding, the delay seems to be very noticeable on the SG, I've scored some kills that I shouldn't have cause of it, and missed some shot for the same reason. I also wish to apologize too you if I sound ignorant in my op, in my own opinion, I don't think the problem is the SG this time, I believe the issue is now coming from the server, not saying I'm right, just giving out some ideas.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 54	Posted - 2013.09.03 18:14:00 - [5] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Back after a couple of matches, and saw something VERY interesting. Point-blank, back of the target's head, barely scratched him. But it DID register as a hit. As he backed up, turned, then jumped right before I pulled the trigger, landed what SHOULD have been a close-range bodyshot dealing less damage than the Shotgun to the back of the head, and it killed him instantly. Back in the VERY old days, people worked out that Shotgun spread wasn't a cone that started accurately around the barrel and narrowed down when you skill up, but a tapered cylinder that narrows down evenly along its entire length as you skill up. Pretty sure this is still the case, and I suspect they've either widened it slightly, or made the pellet placement more random within it. Not sure why that would be done, particularly without being listed in the patch notes, but it's the theory I'm working from right now. NOTE: Shotgun Operation 3 on the character this happened to. Noticed a similar pattern (an issue seemingly separate from the damage delay): A dead-on, point-blank shot scratches off maybe 10% of target shields. Other shots deal disproportionately large damage. Randomizing pellet patterns further is a peculiar approach to addressing SG hit detection. I'll try some testing to see if anythings changed to the pellet spread/pattern, if I can get in a match today, I'll try to find a place I can shoot my SG and watch the pellet spread/pattern, I'd like to ask if you guys would the same thing, just try and find an empty place with four walls, and fire at the wall with while switching ranges. I'd really like to get some info on this, so if anyone else would like to contribute, please do.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 54	Posted - 2013.09.04 03:47:00 - [6] - Quote I just got back from some serious SG testing, I wasn't able to test the SG in combat due to some Matchmaking problems, but thanks to the same problems, I was placed in a match with only 16 players in total, and it was on the broken redesigned Domination map, so everyone left but be, leaving me to train my piloting skills, and test out some weapon perimeters! From my testing, the results have shown that the SG, has gotten significantly worse than before. First I started testing some of the bug reports that I've been reading on the forums, the first one I choose was, first clip in the SG not firing, results, true, the first shot has a high chance of not firing and even worse, it will also consume ammo sometimes. 2.) SG pellet spread is too big/inconsistent, results, true, this was a hard one to test, since everyone had left the match, I had no targets to test this on, so I was forced to shoot walls and dirt, which was also difficult, as now the SG won't show signs of impact now, I'll get to that in a minute, I was forced to strafing and trying to watch the pellet trails as I fired my SG, I was able to catch a glimpse of there spread/pattern, it was awful, it seems to be completely random, several shots fired in a vertical/horizontal lines, and the spread was atrocious. 3.) I found this one myself, not sure if others have notice. As I was testing the pellet spread/pattern, I noticed that I could see the point of impact on any surface textures, no dust puffs on the floor, no heat marks on the walls, just nothing, almost as if the shots don't exist, only targets show signs of impact, I miss fired on my supply depot and it's shields registered a hit, no damage though, this isn't a big problem, but I felt this should be mentioned as no other weapon has this issue. 4.) Another issue I found, I found myself double reloading, while reloading, I would notice after putting all 8 shells, my character would load a 9th shell, this happened rarely during my testing, but this delay could be fetal to many SGers. This is all I was able to test by myself, I hope this helps in some way, if anyone has anymore data to share please do, I'd very much like to compare notes.