DUST Search - What we have Lost

The Black Jackal wrote:

Yun Hee Ryeon wrote:

Do I not remember correctly that CARBON turned out to scale precisely for ****? Assuming the PS3 could run it at all? That they ended up not being able to run Eve's stationside bars with it, much less heavily-populated FPS battles?

DUST presently has scaling issues anyway-- the larger the map, the buggier (I'm pretty sure Manus Peak remains in rotation exclusively because it's a relatively "safe" environment to try new map sectors). It's not what CCP wanted any more than what we wanted, I don't think.

Jackal ... due respect, but is the point of this just to QQ about how far the product's fallen from the promise? If so ... what the hell? Do you have some kind of suspicion that CCP is turning out less than it wanted because it WANTS to?

If so ... eh. Not much I'll bother to say to that.

If not ... the plan's still kinda there, you realize. We're just stuck at a depressingly small-scale version that the PS3 nevertheless struggles with. It'll improve, or it'll die; either you'll get what you want (what was promised, yes) in good time, or the whole project will go belly-up in the face of competitors like Planetside and Destiny.

So what's the point? Reminding CCP that they have failed us? (Clearly not for the last time-- you're still here, as are they.)

I'm reasonably sure they haven't forgotten, if only because the whole forum basically bleeds the words, "Great, now where's the rest of it?" every time there's an update.

The poinmt is that back in 2009, they had a game that was built to win. Yes, it lacked polish, and had issues with the Engine (I'd like a CCP Dev to outline EXACTLY why they changed, and why they couldn't utilise the same maps, models and scales in Unreal 3 that handles games like:

Gears of War Judgment PS3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbOw7ds1q78

Mass Effect 3 PS3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZvFxUZGDgk

Medal of Honor 2010 PS3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkEfkrDyrJk

Tom Clancy's Endwar PS3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQs2R67j1gY

and these aren't even the best of the games produced on the Unreal Engine for PS3


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The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 821	Posted - 2013.09.03 00:46:00 - [1] - Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCIPDUh7NmM <---- Where is this? - 1:21 Far more Open Overview Map (No Redline) - 1:25 PLAYER Deployed Installation with Sensor Boosters, etc. All deployed by the COmmander - COMMANDER IN CONTROL OF MCC! - 2:02 Look at THAT sweet LAV... So much better than what we have now, and the Blaster on the Back looks like a Blaster.... - 2:30 URBAN COMBAT ENVIRONMENT! - 2:35 Switches from Assault Rifle (which has an Underbarrel Grenade Launcher) to Rocket Launcher (without clone death) - 2:50 INTERIOR COMBAT ENVIRONMENT! - MULTISTAGE INVASION (Down Mainframe to take down shields, so MCC can move in) - 3:55 Demonstration of Assault Rifle's Underbarrel Grenade Launcher - 4:40 "This one (MCC) is ours?" Atli - "Yes, PLAYER CONTROLLED" - 5:37 RDV drops in a FIGHTER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvZawAaliSA <---- Or this? - 3:50 Actual 3D image hovering above the War Table... of 2 MCCs in battle. - At 3:54 Atli says, "This is NO GIMMICK this is the real thing!" This is some gameplay footgae from an earlier 'protoype' build... Above is listed things I see we've lost just from watching the footage... Take a look and see how today's version of DUST from a gameplay and variety and map size perspective fails to live up to an 'EARLIER BUILD' of DUST 514
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 821	Posted - 2013.09.03 01:28:00 - [2] - Quote The point is THEY had it. THAT is a GAMEPLAY DEMO They stood up on stage and PLAYED it. It lacked polish, it lacked really top notch graphics, but it was a game, that showed deep, fun, and meaningful gameplay that got even Battlefield and CoD Fans drooling. What I want to know, and what I'm illustrating, is that CCP had this, they had this game, and released something that doesn't even compare to what they offered us back in 2009 - yes 2009.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 821	Posted - 2013.09.03 02:00:00 - [3] - Quote Arc-08 wrote: my question is, why did they take it away, and if they took it away, is sombody rebuilding it, and fixing it, is this on the backlog of what CCP is doing?! We've been asking that since Replication... To my knowledge, there hasn't been an answer yet.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 821	Posted - 2013.09.03 02:48:00 - [4] - Quote New Engine. The Models still work. The Models are still there. The Fighter still exists. The LAV model still exists. Models are made independently of the engine. Height Maps for terrain, even if made in the engine, can be exported and reused in another Engine. Along with Texture Maps, Normal Maps, etc etc. The real changes come with the Scripting Language... Unreal Engine, CryEngine, and Carbon all run different languages. THe basic elements such as physics etc are all the same, or have the same components to be modified. The Warbarge rooms beyond the 'lobby' exist still. Assets imported into the Engine still remain independent Assets... You model something with 3DS Max, you can export it in Carbon, Unreal, CryEngine Formats... even BLENDER allows this.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 821	Posted - 2013.09.03 05:06:00 - [5] - Quote Sylvana Nightwind wrote: What exactly is so amazing about that 2009 gameplay other than the jet that crashed in like 10 sec from takeoff? I doubt that was even gameplay, looks more like proof of concept and tech demo. A) Did you even look at the list of features I outlined? B) The guys stood on stage, with a controller in hand and PLAYED the game... it's in the video. Walking around your Warbarge, Immersion, Urban Maps.. Building Interiors, sequential campaigns, MCC fights... the list goes on. CCP showed us this awesome game... and gave us not even half of it. It bears the same name, and the Caldari Suit Design has been relatively constant, but in all, it's not the same DUST we were initially shown.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 826	Posted - 2013.09.03 06:28:00 - [6] - Quote Yun Hee Ryeon wrote: Do I not remember correctly that CARBON turned out to scale precisely for ****? Assuming the PS3 could run it at all? That they ended up not being able to run Eve's stationside bars with it, much less heavily-populated FPS battles? DUST presently has scaling issues anyway-- the larger the map, the buggier (I'm pretty sure Manus Peak remains in rotation exclusively because it's a relatively "safe" environment to try new map sectors). It's not what CCP wanted any more than what we wanted, I don't think. Jackal ... due respect, but is the point of this just to QQ about how far the product's fallen from the promise? If so ... what the hell? Do you have some kind of suspicion that CCP is turning out less than it wanted because it WANTS to? If so ... eh. Not much I'll bother to say to that. If not ... the plan's still kinda there, you realize. We're just stuck at a depressingly small-scale version that the PS3 nevertheless struggles with. It'll improve, or it'll die; either you'll get what you want (what was promised, yes) in good time, or the whole project will go belly-up in the face of competitors like Planetside and Destiny. So what's the point? Reminding CCP that they have failed us? (Clearly not for the last time-- you're still here, as are they.) I'm reasonably sure they haven't forgotten, if only because the whole forum basically bleeds the words, "Great, now where's the rest of it?" every time there's an update. The poinmt is that back in 2009, they had a game that was built to win. Yes, it lacked polish, and had issues with the Engine (I'd like a CCP Dev to outline EXACTLY why they changed, and why they couldn't utilise the same maps, models and scales in Unreal 3 that handles games like: Gears of War Judgment PS3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbOw7ds1q78 Mass Effect 3 PS3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZvFxUZGDgk Medal of Honor 2010 PS3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkEfkrDyrJk Tom Clancy's Endwar PS3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQs2R67j1gY and these aren't even the best of the games produced on the Unreal Engine for PS3
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 826	Posted - 2013.09.03 07:07:00 - [7] - Quote The Black Jackal wrote: Yun Hee Ryeon wrote: Do I not remember correctly that CARBON turned out to scale precisely for ****? Assuming the PS3 could run it at all? That they ended up not being able to run Eve's stationside bars with it, much less heavily-populated FPS battles? DUST presently has scaling issues anyway-- the larger the map, the buggier (I'm pretty sure Manus Peak remains in rotation exclusively because it's a relatively "safe" environment to try new map sectors). It's not what CCP wanted any more than what we wanted, I don't think. Jackal ... due respect, but is the point of this just to QQ about how far the product's fallen from the promise? If so ... what the hell? Do you have some kind of suspicion that CCP is turning out less than it wanted because it WANTS to? If so ... eh. Not much I'll bother to say to that. If not ... the plan's still kinda there, you realize. We're just stuck at a depressingly small-scale version that the PS3 nevertheless struggles with. It'll improve, or it'll die; either you'll get what you want (what was promised, yes) in good time, or the whole project will go belly-up in the face of competitors like Planetside and Destiny. So what's the point? Reminding CCP that they have failed us? (Clearly not for the last time-- you're still here, as are they.) I'm reasonably sure they haven't forgotten, if only because the whole forum basically bleeds the words, "Great, now where's the rest of it?" every time there's an update. The poinmt is that back in 2009, they had a game that was built to win. Yes, it lacked polish, and had issues with the Engine (I'd like a CCP Dev to outline EXACTLY why they changed, and why they couldn't utilise the same maps, models and scales in Unreal 3 that handles games like: Gears of War Judgment PS3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbOw7ds1q78 Mass Effect 3 PS3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZvFxUZGDgk Medal of Honor 2010 PS3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkEfkrDyrJk Tom Clancy's Endwar PS3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQs2R67j1gY and these aren't even the best of the games produced on the Unreal Engine for PS3 Also forgot: Borderlands 2 PS3- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_hlZHnWyh8
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 829	Posted - 2013.09.04 03:00:00 - [8] - Quote Some people know it.. Some do not. The number of people I've spoken to who didn't even know this footage existed is staggering. This message is meant to illuminate that CCP had something, and that something was a great idea, and was a working game of some description. I'm still waiting on a CCP Dev to tell me EXACTLY why they didn't reuse the models and terrains from their earlier builds. Or why they removed the ability to carry multiple weapons on one frame.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 829	Posted - 2013.09.04 07:01:00 - [9] - Quote I'm also fearful of this happening to EVE Valkryie. They have what is 'looking' to be an awesome game... but if they do to it, what they've done to this... CCP Devs! Please, give me a real explanation why you showed us a jewel of a game, and left us with... whatever you want to call this... I want DUST 514 to succeed, but it wont unless you give us the game you guys had back in 2009. The one with full interaction, massive scale maps, fighters, deployables, player-controlled MCC, and player owned (and somewhat controlled) Warbarges... blah blah blah... as stated in above posting. The sheer potential of THIS game and what it's setting out to do is enormous... but what we have now doesn't even compare to other 'lobby' shooters.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 829	Posted - 2013.09.04 10:49:00 - [10] - Quote Darkphoton 2501 I'd like to agree with you. I really would... on some points. However, there is the glaring outline that this IS NOT BETA... I really wish it was, but it's not.. it's a launched title as of Uprising. Quote: I see snipers everywhere. After death, i need minutes to get back into battle (without vehicles). Workaround: Have some Dropship pilots flying back and forth only hauling soldiers to the action. (I like dropships somehow but that won't be fun.) And no Readline...hm, maybe HAVs around the MCC spawn Point. (Drop out of the MCC just to land in front of a 80GJ Blaster...any fun?) Maybe remove uplinks and let people just drop everywhere they want? Not sure if this would work. You're confusing what is with what was... The MCC in the above mentioned scenarios is moveable, thus less likely to be campled. Snipers may be effective, but at the time of that, bullet drop was going to be a factor. Not to mention larger maps with no redline means you can bypass sniper hideaways. Commander can deploy CRUs to give people a spawn point, set up a 'base camp' to defend spawners. Deployed Installations are not hard to balance. Firstly, resources used are ISK... as should be the ONLY resource used in this game. WP for Orbitals is an antiquated escalation mechanic not suited to a game where you can bring in million isk assets anywhere on the field. Oh and games such as StarHawk etc had a nice deployable system, that seemed to work fine. It wouldn't allow certain elements to be dropped in certain locations, thus avoiding 'hanging guns' or thing lopsided on cliffs. IDEA: Have a deployable Command Centre (bunker) that has a PG and CPU Value. You can then drop Installations etc within range of that Bunker to fill 'slots' up to the PG / CPU limit in a certain radius. Higher tier Command Centres cost more, have bigger radius, and more PG / CPU. Battlefield has massive maps that, if you don't have vehicles' require you to run for your life. I see this as breathing new life into Vehicle Drivers. Dropships will have purpose besides initial PC rush,. Oh and btw, I endorse the REMOVAL of Drop Uplinks. The game shouldn't use them, and point spawns as well... Push the 'tactical team' angle. Revive, because it'll take your teammate a while to get back to you. Clear a point. Now you get rewarded by having no opposition when you hack it and take control of it. The new map is a step in the right direction, but it's only 1 map, and in domination mode you're in it, or in the red line. The point I'm making with the switching weapons is that his suit, whatever it was, carried both. And it was standard frames. HAVING to use 1 suit, and not a particularly good one, to get 2 Light weapons is bad game design. Multi-stage invasions happened already. Once in the above videos, and during Replication Build with Skirmish 1.0... both times they've been taken away. The AR with underbarrel grenade launcher hints at customisable features. A single shot that requires a reload isn't Over Powered, and what if you could attach a shotgun attachment? or Smoke Grenades? You could possibly add these to other weapons to... MMC Controlled by player shouldn't rely on EVE integration. Why? Because it is a DUST asset... it's on a DUST field. When talking Warbarge MAYBE you could say integration, but MCC is a DUST exclusive asset. Should not be relying on any EVE-side interaction. Quote: And crashes 10sec later. It looks hard to controll, even on this gigantic map. Besides that, its way to fast to be hit by Forge Guns or even Swarm Launchers. Make it slower and its close to the Combat Dropships with its Rocket Launcher (Maybe more firepower but without crew?). I think i have seen some concept art with fighters lately. Atli says, in the video... "My First Time Flying" Doesn'yt look any harder to control than jets in BF3, and they manage quite well. Quote: - 6:32 Artillery Vehicle firing on the MCC Hm, i don't think people should be able to directly hit the MCC. If its not player controlled, there is no difference to a null cannon (Ok, it looks different) In a Game where the MCC is mobile, player controlled cannons that are mobile would be needed. Otherwise the MCC could simply fly out of range of the facility guns. Oh and the ability to shoot the MCC was in Skirmish 1.0.

The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 837	Posted - 2013.09.06 15:09:00 - [11] - Quote sammus420 wrote: I'd love it if we could get CCP LogiBro in here to take a look at this and tell us just what the **** happened. It all looked so promising :( As would I.