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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
bogeyman m
Learning Coalition College
13
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Posted - 2014.01.15 20:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm not going to read through all 24 pages, so I apologize if this is a repeat but, based on the post subject line, I agree and would go further to suggest that it should be REQUIRED that a second player be the gunner on ANY vehicle. (One to pilot and a second to run the turret, missile launcher or, in this case, fire their own weapon.) |
bogeyman m
Learning Coalition College
13
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 20:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hoover Damn wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? I'd feel like the dropship was being used to its fullest potential. :D EDIT: and if a dropship with two HMGs is scarier than a dropship with a pair of blasters, maybe you should consider what it says when a man-portable minigun is scarier than a vehicle-mounted fully-automatic plasma cannon.
A derpship with HMGs would have to be close enough that you could hit them with AV grenades, no? |
bogeyman m
Learning Coalition College
13
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 21:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:basically for any opposer to this remember that RAIL tanks and Rail installations kill dropships (and passengers) in 2-3 hits max. AV is still powerful vs dropships.
-AND-
Dropships still have very little offensive capabilities
Incubus and Python pilots would disagree... As would any of they victims. |
bogeyman m
Learning Coalition College
16
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Posted - 2014.01.16 11:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Although I'd like to have passengers shooting out,
It's a little bit hard to create a balanced system.
Possible solutions, none of these are clear winners but maybe someone can refine the idea further... :
Sidearm only?
No reload while in?
+500% reload time?
Very limited fields of vision?
Make it very shaky to fire (doesn't balance swarms though) ?
No zoom?
New attribute to each weapon: 'Allow passenger use' ?
Maybe the 'sidearm only' could be could be the best so far, even though we would miss many nice balanced light arms.
Or if CCP is willing to add new attribute for weapon data, the allow/deny passenger seat use per each weapon.
No need to worry about swarms. The DS would have to hover within 175m for a second and a half for the swarm to lock on to a target, making the DS equally vulnerable... So, self balancing. |
bogeyman m
Learning Coalition College
16
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Posted - 2014.01.16 11:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Komodo Jones wrote:Seeth Mensch wrote:Komodo Jones wrote:At this point dropships are... a giant WP pinata and that might change how people feel about it. LOL and that there's balance. Well, make the swarm launchers a bit better again. It was overnerfed last time. Taken out context but yes, good job editing lol. Haven't used swarms that much at all and they are easy enough to evade, seems like all AV has been nerfed to area/idiot denial tool. Yes it was equal parts AV being powerful and cheap as well as vehicles being flimsy and expensive that caused the change but at some point they gotta realize that there's a problem when AV masters are having trouble taking down BASIC vehicles...remember these are basic, there is no advanced or proto vehicles lol.
I was able to get close to an Incubus today - the pilot must have been distracted - with my Advanced Swarm Launcher (with one Enhance Damage Mod). I got off one whole clip (three volleys, 15 missiles, 3,300 damage) before he even moved. Might have cleared half his shields (with zero armour damage). Before my 3 second reload and 1.4 second target-lock cycle completed, he got off three (3) cannon shots. My bunny hopping avoided the first two but the third hit with enough damage to kill me twice over. I caught a quick local spawn and found the Incubus in the same place - he had already returned to full shield.
War Points are not (currently) awarded for damage. So unless an AVer gets lucky enough to actually down a derpship and get those 75 WPs (and rarely any kills because most passengers simply abandon ship), they get nothing for their attempts at trying to protect their squad and/or strategic position (as useless as that effort now is). So no, there are no pinatas today. |
bogeyman m
Learning Coalition College
18
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Posted - 2014.01.16 20:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:bogeyman m wrote:Komodo Jones wrote:Seeth Mensch wrote:Komodo Jones wrote:At this point dropships are... a giant WP pinata and that might change how people feel about it. LOL and that there's balance. Well, make the swarm launchers a bit better again. It was overnerfed last time. Taken out context but yes, good job editing lol. Haven't used swarms that much at all and they are easy enough to evade, seems like all AV has been nerfed to area/idiot denial tool. Yes it was equal parts AV being powerful and cheap as well as vehicles being flimsy and expensive that caused the change but at some point they gotta realize that there's a problem when AV masters are having trouble taking down BASIC vehicles...remember these are basic, there is no advanced or proto vehicles lol. I was able to get close to an Incubus today - the pilot must have been distracted - with my Advanced Swarm Launcher (with one Enhance Damage Mod). I got off one whole clip (three volleys, 15 missiles, 3,465 damage) before he even moved. Might have cleared half his shields (with zero armour damage). Before my 3 second reload plus 1.4 second target-lock cycle completed, he got off three (3) cannon shots. My bunny hopping avoided the first two but the third hit with enough damage to kill me twice over. I caught a quick local spawn and found the Incubus in the same place - he had already returned to full shield. War Points are not (currently) awarded for damage. So unless an AVer gets lucky enough to actually down a derpship and get those 75 WPs (and rarely any kills because most passengers simply abandon ship), they get nothing for their attempts at trying to protect their squad and/or strategic position (as useless as that effort now is). So no, there are no pinatas today. but if you could fire those swarms from a derpship and follow him down, you could take him out.
That is true. And should send a chill down the spine on every DS pilot... Imagine a well fitted DS filled with AVers? DSs would have NO place to hide. |
bogeyman m
Learning Coalition College
18
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hoover Damn wrote:Komodo Jones wrote:At this point dropships are great for fighting infantry, I'm only using militia dropships with a gunner and we can deny people areas.
I would say they need a boost fighting tanks but honestly that's because tanks are kinda ridiculous at this point, a dropship can hold it's own, especially in a fight with someone who has AV. My militia forge gun can't take down an assault dropship anymore, and that isn't necessarily a problem, but imagine a dropship with 2 assault rifles and a missile launcher on one side, it changes the game a bit.
Something is making the vehicles so powerful to the point where when the hardeners are on nothing short of several AV infantry or 1 or 2 tank killing tanks can actually stand a chance, and I suppose that's a good thing too, but before we make dropships even more powerful by adding these passenger gunners (which I fully support) vehicles as a whole need to be toned down a bit, that or add something to make that dropship a bigger target.
For example, I rarely get kills when I take down a dropship, just the points from the dropship kill, why? Everyone jumps out, what if we were to instead kill some of the people in the dropship when the HP hit 0, the pilot, the gunners, the passengers, someone. Allowing passengers to fire will change the dropship from an annoyance to a really formidable threat, some may argue over powered, but turn the thing into a giant WP pinata and that might change how people feel about it. Good point. I think we could resolve this by making them a bit less well-protected. Not so much that they get destroyed a lot, but enough that they'll have to run away a bit more often. Maybe tweak their PG/CPU so they have a harder time mounting hardeners and what not?
^This^ |
bogeyman m
Learning Coalition College
18
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
lee corwood wrote:bogeyman m wrote:
War Points are not (currently) awarded for damage.
I think if a change was implemented to award points for damage, it would be a game changer. It would unite infantry in a way that would get people coordinated. I have a proto swarmer and can take out all shields and half their armor in one 6 swarm hit but their speed usually gets them safe before I can finish it. If I were with a buddy (that's my fault) the kill would have been mine. I think DS at least has an advantage over guys riding along in tanks because they're at least exposed. I've seen many a game where the gunners were shot out of a DS whereas the tanker buddies are completely encapsulated. However, and correct me if I'm wrong, if you're in the DS when it dies in the sky do you not also die with it? Or does it immediately eject you? I thought it was the same as a crash, where if you're in the DS, you die.
Awarding a reasonable amount of WP for damaged caused (for all players) would definately be a good idea and help make the role of being an AVer relevant again. Unfortunately, after the recent nerfing, if you aren't carrying a proto swarm with damage mods you might as well start training into another role (or leave the game) - it's just a waste of time.
In your example of (properly) teaming up, you still might not have gotten the kill if your buddy (with a pea-shooter) landed the finishing shot. You would currently get an assist on the vehicle destruction, no damage points and likely no kills/assists as everyone would have bailed before the ship hit the ground. Note that DSs do not explode in the air - they drop from the sky when they die and explode on the ground, giving passengers plenty of time to jettison (if they were paying attention).
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bogeyman m
Learning Coalition College
18
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Posted - 2014.01.16 20:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? I would expect a limited field of fire from a dropship. The mercs are strapped in, so their downward and upward angles would be limited. Since 1 person on each side would be on the turret you would only be adding 2 light weapons per side. To give the passengers a decent shot the Dropship pilot would have to tilt the dropship to the right or left, so the passengers on the other side would be looking skyward. The only time you would be able to bring both turrets and 4 light weapons to bare on the enemy is if you were flying low between two structures. That all being said, there are still potential problems here. I just wanted to make clear that we are really talking about 2 light weapons in most cases, rather than 4 or 6.
^This^
So, two light weapons and two manned turrets, at most. Seems reasonable to me, as long as they also get rid of whatever auto-fire, unmanned canons are currently on some DSs.
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