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udont nothat
Three Brothers and a Fat Guy
0
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Posted - 2013.08.19 21:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
I been reading a lot about peopleGÇÖs beef with the AR, it pops up in almost any weapons discussion. I don't like using phrases like OP and requesting nerfs cause if we all got our way melee would end up being the strongest thing we have. However it is my opinion that the AR could ruin this game.
I love the idea of dust, I been hooked since I watched the first trailer, my favorite thing about this game and the reason its so appealing to me is that there is so many different ways to play. Different suits are obviously set up with better perks for certain weapons but that does not limit you to that specific weapon. some people do not even use a weapon technically. I'm sure everyone has been in a match where you have been run over by that stinking saga II like 8 times. My point being that you can slap together all sorts of crazy combos and do alright and have a lot of fun in this game. I used a militia light suit with remote explosives and nova knives and after a couple practice runs I broke 1000 WP and had a 19 and 7 match, not to shabby for militia gear.
Then there is the AR. Every single shooter game ever released has had one, it is a beginner weapon. I'm not saying every "newb" is gonna beast it with one or that you lack skills if you do have one, I just mean that an AR is the weapon the game starts you with till you get the hang of things and start to experiment with other light/heavy/equipment/roles ect. People who stick with the AR from the get go are not taking advantage of the diversity of game play dust offers.
But new players do not want to try new things. I certainly did not at first. Why you ask? because the thing that killed me the most was a GEK-38. That gun tore me up!! Which made me think to myself why wouldn't I want to do that to people? Why can't I just throw all my SP into a caldari proto assault and get that duvolle AR and beat the living daylights out of the new guys like they did to me. It got to the point where I was actually happy to be killed by something other than an AR, as sad as that sounds. I believe whatever kills you the most in the beginning is what new players are going to try and use (I would like to thank the squad of 4 guys who spanked me all weekend with those MD's and got me away from an AR)... And no the reason why I do not use ARs is because I'm not good at aiming with them, I play with a mouse and keyboard, I'm pretty good with MD head shots as tough as that sounds....and before any one says well he uses a MD that thing is OP, remember its launching grenades things, I would hope it does some damage and also I never said the assault rifle is OP I'm just simply saying it keeps people from diversifying and also forces everyone to have the same play style.
I played COD (very briefly) after it had been out for a while and if you were the guy that was NOT coming into a room, jumping into the air and going prone midair, you were not gonna win very much, everyone did it, or they just played till they could dual the shotguns then you had a whole match of dual shotgunning maniacs. That got old like right now. Play like you see everyone else playing or you will be at a disadvantage. But that is why dust is so fresh, you can almost invent your own way of playing thanks to modules, various loadouts, shield vs. armor tanks and suits, ect.
The stomping of new players by the proto AR guys is going to do one of two things, either keep all of them stuck with the idea that AR is the only weapon you can dominate with thus breeding the next generation of GEK-38 users, or give them such a feeling of helplessness that they are so far behind the proto users that they just quit, and when all the fresh meat quits that proto gear wont be as fun anymore, its gonna get real expensive when the match is dominated by Duvolle ARs and the suits to boot, it will make you wanna quit... I did, for about two months I did not touch the game, but the gamer in me was not about to miss out on all the positive aspects of the game that CCP is trying to offer i.e. the many many different play styles.
So there you have it, no I do not think they should go away, no I do not think the weapons need more nerfs, no I do not think matchmaking should be looked at closer cause lets face it, all that hard work you should be able to go against suits that go down a bit easier so you can feel like everything finally paid off, but thatGÇÖs a whole different topic... I do not really have an answer or a suggestion for all the AR guys, I know you are stubborn and do not want to give up what you have invested so much time into, Also many of you that are killing this game for those of use that would like to see it at it full potential will not even read this because your to busy going 30-0 in a skirmish match against a bunch of players that have 504,000 SP. I guess all I would like to see is that you kill them dirty little "newbs" with a different weapon every now and then so they can see that the AR is not the only one there is. I dread the day my shotgun and I show up to a match with 31 assault rifles, I'll just stay in the darn ship.
These thoughts have been rolling around in my head for a while, and I just wanted to post this to see how everyone else feels about it. NOT SO MUCH THE GUN BUT THE FUTURE OF DUST PLAYERS. It is probably redundant and will get deleted but I still had to post something, at least I tried. Oh, btw, if you post back on this and tell me oh your an idiot and ARGÇÖs are not bad cause blah blah blah stats and blah calculations and the need for them to be in the squadGǪ.I wont argue with you, I get that, they play a big role, but they shouldnGÇÖt be everything, whole squads of nothing but ARs, where is the creativity. Again I wont argue with you over the internet cause lets try and be adults, this is my opinion that I am entitled to have and I would ask that you respect it as I will respect yours. |
Charlotte O'Dell
0uter.Heaven EoN.
960
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Posted - 2013.08.19 21:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
The AR must be nerfed harder than Derpy Hooves' voice in "The Last Round-Up" after all the politically correct whiners cried about it. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1692
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Posted - 2013.08.19 21:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
All I gotta say is: yay for grammar and the use of the enter key!
AR will be OP until the other rifles come out, we should then see a good bit of weapon diversity once they are well balanced in 2-3 more patches. |
XANDER KAG
Red Star. EoN.
201
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Posted - 2013.08.19 21:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Truth is, I would love to test out other weapons, but I went to AR prof. 5 during the last respec, Nothing else really even compares so far, and I'm at that point that if I want to lvl anything else up I need 400k sp here or 700k there.
This is NOT a request for a respec but simply pointing out that I have so much sp into AR's that everything else just seems worth less.
Maybe when I finally finish my build I'll spec more thoroughly into something else. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4362
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Posted - 2013.08.19 21:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
It's not the AR that's the problem, it's the elitism surrounding the AR. When this topic explodes into a 10+ debate, check out some of the elitists posts about how a hitscan weapon with aim-assist somehow requires more skill than whatever gets mentioned, most likely mass drivers since they're a hot topic. Terms like gun game, noob tube will be thrown about and for some reason planetary conquest will be brought into the argument as some kind of virtual prestige to hold over the heads of others as if it adds leverage in an argument that it's not very relevant in. |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
591
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Posted - 2013.08.19 22:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:It's not the AR that's the problem, it's the elitism surrounding the AR. When this topic explodes into a 10+ debate, check out some of the elitists posts about how a hitscan weapon with aim-assist somehow requires more skill than whatever gets mentioned, most likely mass drivers since they're a hot topic. Terms like gun game, noob tube will be thrown about and for some reason planetary conquest will be brought into the argument as some kind of virtual prestige to hold over the heads of others as if it adds leverage in an argument that it's not very relevant in.
You know that currently aim assist doesn't work right? No one is using it right now, even if they think they are. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5793
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Posted - 2013.08.19 22:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
This is primarily a product of CCPs desire to have a "persistent" skill system.
When you force people to play one way for long periods of time, most will go for the safest, most general weapon set / fitting they can find, to optimize their chances of their build staying relevant as time goes on and they unlock more. This also forces familiarity with the weapon, so many become accustomed to or even grow to enjoy that weapon.
This is why you mainly see ARs, not that they don't still need a little work, but because CCP has designed a system which promotes this kind of behavior. |
StubbyDucky
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
371
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Posted - 2013.08.19 22:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
I demand a AR buff! |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
753
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Posted - 2013.08.19 22:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Diversity will occur as the game goes on and the playerbase ages. ARs are what everyone starts in and sinks SP into first.
I know many people that started as ARs and are now experimenting with different weapons and landed on Mass Driver, or Scrambler Rifle. Honestly as far as Mid-range combat goes... there are limited options.
There are CQC weapons (shotgun, plasma canon, any sidearm, HMG), there are long-range weapons (sniper, scrambler rifle, TAC AR, forge, laser), and there are mid-range weapons (AR, assault scrambler rifle, Mass Driver)
... there just isn't this plethora of weapons that people think everyone should use. If you want a mid-range weapon, you have three options. If you want a GUN you have two, and of the two the AR is more balanced vis-a-vi shield/armor damage.
That's it.
"Use other weapons!!!" chanting is not really about the AR, it is about short-to-mid-range run-and-gun playstyle that has been the favored meta for a long time...
... You want people to change their playstyle, not their weapon of choice. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1692
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Posted - 2013.08.19 22:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:This is primarily a product of CCPs desire to have a "persistent" skill system.
When you force people to play one way for long periods of time, most will go for the safest, most general weapon set / fitting they can find, to optimize their chances of their build staying relevant as time goes on and they unlock more. This also forces familiarity with the weapon, so many become accustomed to or even grow to enjoy that weapon.
This is why you mainly see ARs, not that they don't still need a little work, but because CCP has designed a system which promotes this kind of behavior.
Very true, the skill system really forces this proficiency wall style of behavior, it will get better in another 4 months once everyone has their core skills fleshed out and can afford to throw away sp in order to try something new.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
4363
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Posted - 2013.08.19 22:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:Diversity will occur as the game goes on and the playerbase ages. ARs are what everyone starts in and sinks SP into first.
I know many people that started as ARs and are now experimenting with different weapons and landed on Mass Driver, or Scrambler Rifle. Honestly as far as Mid-range combat goes... there are limited options.
There are CQC weapons (shotgun, plasma canon, any sidearm, HMG), there are long-range weapons (sniper, scrambler rifle, TAC AR, forge, laser), and there are mid-range weapons (AR, assault scrambler rifle, Mass Driver)
... there just isn't this plethora of weapons that people think everyone should use. If you want a mid-range weapon, you have three options. If you want a GUN you have two, and of the two the AR is more balanced vis-a-vi shield/armor damage.
That's it.
"Use other weapons!!!" chanting is not really about the AR, it is about short-to-mid-range run-and-gun playstyle that has been the favored meta for a long time...
... You want people to change their playstyle, not their weapon of choice. If that's the case, this game might be hopeless because all I see is droves of players running around like lemmings on crack, zerging objectives. Niche weapons are supposed to break them out of that mentality, but instead it drives them zerg the forums because it's not their lack of strategy, it's the weapon... |
Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance
238
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Posted - 2013.08.19 22:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
I enjoy using the AR, i love the sound of it, the consistency of it. Its been already nerfed yet people still cry about it.
Not because its OP, its not, its just most people die to it because its so common. People should man up and learn to dance, avoid some of that spray and pray. Or i dunno, cook pro grenades and charge em in a light suit?
Well played to the original poster, nice to see someone in general discussions making sense for a change.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5793
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Posted - 2013.08.19 22:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:If that's the case, this game might be hopeless because all I see is droves of players running around like lemmings on crack, zerging objectives. Niche weapons are supposed to break them out of that mentality, but instead it drives them zerg the forums because it's not their lack of strategy, it's the weapon... Zerging objectives works
Simple game modes require simple tactics |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1693
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Posted - 2013.08.19 22:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:If that's the case, this game might be hopeless because all I see is droves of players running around like lemmings on crack, zerging objectives. Niche weapons are supposed to break them out of that mentality, but instead it drives them zerg the forums because it's not their lack of strategy, it's the weapon...
Zerging objectives works because of militia gear and drop uplinks.. two things that are very wrong with this game imo. |
Vulcanus Lightbringer
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
99
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Posted - 2013.08.19 22:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
XANDER KAG wrote:Truth is, I would love to test out other weapons, but I went to AR prof. 5 during the last respec, Nothing else really even compares so far, and I'm at that point that if I want to lvl anything else up I need 400k sp here or 700k there.
This is NOT a request for a respec but simply pointing out that I have so much sp into AR's that everything else just seems worth less.
Maybe when I finally finish my build I'll spec more thoroughly into something else.
This touches on what the real problem of "AR 514" is.
The Skilltree.
The AR isn't OP, okay maybe a teeny tiny amount but nothing game-breaking, it's just not that bad at anything. The real problem lies in how the skilltree forces players into a certain role without any ability to branch out in a reasonable time-frame. Say it takes two million skill points to max out a weapon, that's five and a half weeks provided you cap every week. Why would anyone spend that amount of time to get a new weapon when you already have one that works quite well?
The solution must be to revamp the weaponry tree so that it still promotes specialization but doesn't penalize diversification the way that it currently is.
Far be it from me to toot my own horn, but this thread has some ideas. |
Xender17
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
475
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Posted - 2013.08.19 23:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
This game is already like COD. Everyone has the same thing. |
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