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Ryan Mauler
WarRavens
League of Infamy
12
   |
Posted - 2013.08.18 19:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
We all know that DUST was meant to appeal to the fps gamers, MMO lovers, and strategy fanatics. It appeals to fps gamers because... Duh, its free and its amazing. It appeals to the MMO aspect with its wide array of specialization a and options with skills and their related equipment. But what do the strategy fanatics get? .... .... ???
They get squad orders and bonus WP... Wat...
So here is the question... How do we give the strategy fanatics (like myself) a greater desire to play, without inhibiting or ruining the gameplay for the purist fps lovers?
Btw, take a look at this trailer to reflect on ways to impliment more strategic elements
DUST 514 E3 Trailer 2011 |
Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate
Dark Taboo
50
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 19:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ryan Mauler wrote:We all know that DUST was meant to appeal to the fps gamers, MMO lovers, and strategy fanatics. It appeals to fps gamers because... Duh, its free and its amazing. It appeals to the MMO aspect with its wide array of specialization a and options with skills and their related equipment. But what do the strategy fanatics get? .... .... ??? They get squad orders and bonus WP... Wat... So here is the question... How do we give the strategy fanatics (like myself) a greater desire to play, without inhibiting or ruining the gameplay for the purist fps lovers? Btw, take a look at this trailer to reflect on ways to impliment more strategic elements DUST 514 E3 Trailer 2011
in time there are implentmenting a commander mode. That might be what strategy fanatics might get alot out off. Plus their is the strategy of future full scale warfare when you start conquering and plan attacks with your eve online brothers and Dust Members. |
HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
181
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 19:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
No it does not even remotely lack in strategy. Its just the strategiez you have to apply arent really that appealing.
Lolyawnclownftw stategy:
2 tanks
3 lavs
1 drop ship
4 mass drivers
2 flaylocks
2 snipers
2 ars.
That team set will stomp so much a$$.
But 90% of us just wany to shoot ars.
Infact people are so irritated and sick of vehicles in general they just run from them. Most dont even bother to shoot.
This game has strategy all day. Just not in line with the core of its fan base. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
880
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 19:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
DUST doesnt have good tactical game modes so it lacks strategy... |
Ryan Mauler
WarRavens
League of Infamy
12
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 19:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:No it does not even remotely lack in strategy. Its just the strategiez you have to apply arent really that appealing.
Lolyawnclownftw stategy:
2 tanks
3 lavs
1 drop ship
4 mass drivers
2 flaylocks
2 snipers
2 ars.
That team set will stomp so much a$$.
But 90% of us just wany to shoot ars.
Infact people are so irritated and sick of vehicles in general they just run from them. Most dont even bother to shoot.
This game has strategy all day. Just not in line with the core of its fan base.
That's true, the game has about as much strategy as the next fps. Blind corners, crowd control, swarming, uplinks, AV, etc. But that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about objective based strategy, and not just objectives A, B, and C, I'm talking about squad based strategy. All of the strategies you listed, truly fall under the category of individual tactics. Strategy buffs are looking for things like: specific squad commands, command ques, and things that require defending, instead of just a run and gun game. |
calvin b
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
316
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wait for 2020 when PVE is release. Wait word just came in its now 2021, 2022, lets just say we have no clue as to when this might happen |
THE TRAINSPOTTER
ROMANIA Renegades
C0VEN
156
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ryan Mauler wrote:We all know that DUST was meant to appeal to the fps gamers, MMO lovers, and strategy fanatics. It appeals to fps gamers because... Duh, its free and its amazing. It appeals to the MMO aspect with its wide array of specialization a and options with skills and their related equipment. But what do the strategy fanatics get? .... .... ??? They get squad orders and bonus WP... Wat... So here is the question... How do we give the strategy fanatics (like myself) a greater desire to play, without inhibiting or ruining the gameplay for the purist fps lovers? Btw, take a look at this trailer to reflect on ways to impliment more strategic elements DUST 514 E3 Trailer 2011
you mean RPG not MMO
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7436
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:No it does not even remotely lack in strategy. Its just the strategiez you have to apply arent really that appealing.
Lolyawnclownftw stategy:
2 tanks
3 lavs
1 drop ship
4 mass drivers
2 flaylocks
2 snipers
2 ars.
That team set will stomp so much a$$.
But 90% of us just wany to shoot ars.
Infact people are so irritated and sick of vehicles in general they just run from them. Most dont even bother to shoot.
This game has strategy all day. Just not in line with the core of its fan base.
Counter with 3 HAVs 1 ADS, 3 scouts and rest AR/medics. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
3024
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Eventually, there will be MCC commanders.
I thought you were talking about another big issue- the unimportance of strategy.
Strafe speed needs a big nerf, objective spawns need to be removed, and generalist stuff (primarily ARs) need a nerf. Most importantly, CCP needs to look at the general (lack of) tactics being used, instead of raw stats when it comes to nerfing.
AR scrubs run into the worst possible death-trap that they could, then say MDs are overpowered because it beat their brute force. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
3024
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:No it does not even remotely lack in strategy. Its just the strategiez you have to apply arent really that appealing.
Lolyawnclownftw stategy:
2 tanks
3 lavs
1 drop ship
4 mass drivers
2 flaylocks
2 snipers
2 ars.
That team set will stomp so much a$$.
But 90% of us just wany to shoot ars.
Infact people are so irritated and sick of vehicles in general they just run from them. Most dont even bother to shoot.
This game has strategy all day. Just not in line with the core of its fan base. Counter with 3 HAVs 1 ADS, 3 scouts and rest AR/medics.
You haven't played much this build, have you? |
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Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
3416
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
With all its promises, DUST turned out to be another lobby shooter. Forget the MMO RPG aspect as that is nothing more than 16 v16 SP grind.
Bad game physics, bad weapon / vehicle balance, FoTM syndrome, core gameplay that feels like the game is in Alpha stage of development, and the real killer of DUST, no word on when the PS4 version is coming.
strategy is a branch from a tree of problems this game has. |
The Attorney General
ZionTCD
706
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:With all its promises, DUST turned out to be another lobby shooter. Forget the MMO RPG aspect as that is nothing more than 16 v16 SP grind.
Bad game physics, bad weapon / vehicle balance, FoTM syndrome, core gameplay that feels like the game is in Alpha stage of development, and the real killer of DUST, no word on when the PS4 version is coming.
strategy is a branch from a tree of problems this game has.
This.
It pretty much feels like the game has run out of steam. We all know, or are finally learning, that CCP can't keep up with what this game needs, so there will be a small section of fanatics who ********** furiously with the idea of owning the noobs who trundle in then immediately out of this game until CCP performs the finishing move in the form of a walking in stations for mercs sometime in 2017, on the eve of the PS4 release.
Its like being the last guy smoking the joint. No one wants to be that guy. |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege
General Tso's Alliance
132
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 20:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
3 things need to happen mechanic wise
1) Lower clip size of the AR to 32, which would reduce spray and pray in favor of more meaningful shots
2) Reduce strafing speed, if you can just charge out in the open and Neo-dodge as a defense the significance of cover and positioning is reduced.
3) Non Medium suits really need more distinct roles that can't be mirrored by the medium suits. When an Assault can be speed tanked and carry AV nades + an equipment, that is literally 3 1/2 lite roles taken on by one suit. Role division and weakness is what promotes teamwork, being able to create a fully self sufficient suit does not. Hence low investment in strategy needed. |
Ryan Mauler
WarRavens
League of Infamy
16
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 21:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:With all its promises, DUST turned out to be another lobby shooter. Forget the MMO RPG aspect as that is nothing more than 16 v16 SP grind.
Bad game physics, bad weapon / vehicle balance, FoTM syndrome, core gameplay that feels like the game is in Alpha stage of development, and the real killer of DUST, no word on when the PS4 version is coming.
strategy is a branch from a tree of problems this game has.
You're Right, but It's actually not CCP itself. There is CCP Reykjavik (EVE) and then there is CCP Shanghai (DUST) obviously, one of these two is not like the other :p its a shame that they had to separate their offices like that. The two offices kinda makes the "one universe one war" thing a little fake.
So since there hasn't been much word on the DUST command suits, lets discuss that. What kind of commands should squad leaders be allowed to give? Right now they are way to generic. "Attack point A" ... No dip Sherlock... Attack Point A is a strategic command, yes, but not enough tactic is involved. Squad leaders are in charge of the tactics (which is strategy on a much more specific scale) so they should have command like, provide cover fire on that bunker, Nade that trench, engage surround maneuvers on that outpost. Things like that will really help define the roles. Also, this idea gets a lot of flak, but if the command suit for squad leaders provided bonuses to nearby Squad mates (like profile dampening, higher termination resistance, etc) that would encourage more squad movement, instead of having those ridiculous ambushes where your entire team is trying to lone wolf it and the red berries are hunkered down in a super massive red berry bush. |
Nemo Bluntz
TeamPlayers
EoN.
359
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 21:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
The high health MMO shooter lacks strategy?
What are you smoking? |
Ryan Mauler
WarRavens
League of Infamy
16
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 21:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:The high health MMO shooter lacks strategy?
What are you smoking?
Yes, it's a run and gun right now. It lacks strategy from a larger perspective than you are thinking of. Strategy as in "how to counter a heavy with a scout" DUST is full of, but strategy as in Squad leader making objectives, and then making mini objectives in order to obtain the main objective, DUST has none of. Nor any shooter on the market (MAG came close, but we all know what happened to it) |
Nemo Bluntz
TeamPlayers
EoN.
359
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 21:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ryan Mauler wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:The high health MMO shooter lacks strategy?
What are you smoking? Yes, it's a run and gun right now. It lacks strategy from a larger perspective than you are thinking of. Strategy as in "how to counter a heavy with a scout" DUST is full of, but strategy as in Squad leader making objectives, and then making mini objectives in order to obtain the main objective, DUST has none of. Nor any shooter on the market (MAG came close, but we all know what happened to it)
Oh, if you're talking "HUD orders strategy", then yeah. I guess. But as far as working as a squad, and thinking more than "I'm going to just run into this cluster of guys" and more about how to fight larger groups of guys or even equally fitted teams?
If you think there's no strat, again, you're crazy.
|
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1918
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 22:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
DUST has some low level tactical requirements that a large part of the player base completely ignores (rock, paper, scissors for suits and weapons), but it lacks any semblance of strategy.
Winning is a simple matter of DPS. Apply the most to your opponent first and you win.
The required level of communication to implement strategy exists only in PC, and even there it's just a matter of a mad dash to grab half the objectives before the other team does and holding them.
I was sold on the RTS aspect, and I'm still holding out for it. I'm just not expecting it for a couple more years. |
Ryan Mauler
WarRavens
League of Infamy
17
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 22:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:Ryan Mauler wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:The high health MMO shooter lacks strategy?
What are you smoking? Yes, it's a run and gun right now. It lacks strategy from a larger perspective than you are thinking of. Strategy as in "how to counter a heavy with a scout" DUST is full of, but strategy as in Squad leader making objectives, and then making mini objectives in order to obtain the main objective, DUST has none of. Nor any shooter on the market (MAG came close, but we all know what happened to it) Oh, if you're talking "HUD orders strategy", then yeah. I guess. But as far as working as a squad, and thinking more than "I'm going to just run into this cluster of guys" and more about how to fight larger groups of guys or even equally fitted teams? If you think there's no strat, again, you're crazy.
Yeah, Thats exactly what I'm talking about. Right now, Squad leaders can tell a squad to capture Objective C. After that, it is up to each squad members discretion on how to take C. Sometimes squad mates are on mics and you can come up with a great strategy, and sometimes, they aren't, and you just wing it. Either way you put it, the squad leader isn't doing too hot a job on leading his squad. If he were to say, "set up firing positions along the western hill" which would thereby allow squad B to move under the cover fire and finish off survivors, meanwhile squad C has a man guarding the cause way with proximity mines and AV nades, along with a scout assisting Squad B with an Active Scanner, and a sniper with eyes on the whole thing, that would be intense. If the squad leaders could make choices like that, the game would take on a whole new dimension. The only problem is, CCP can't change it so much that fps gamers lose interest. |
HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
183
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 23:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:No it does not even remotely lack in strategy. Its just the strategiez you have to apply arent really that appealing.
Lolyawnclownftw stategy:
2 tanks
3 lavs
1 drop ship
4 mass drivers
2 flaylocks
2 snipers
2 ars.
That team set will stomp so much a$$.
But 90% of us just wany to shoot ars.
Infact people are so irritated and sick of vehicles in general they just run from them. Most dont even bother to shoot.
This game has strategy all day. Just not in line with the core of its fan base. Counter with 3 HAVs 1 ADS, 3 scouts and rest AR/medics. You haven't played much this build, have you?
I know what a team resembling that will do to a team of just rifles.
I guess I should speak less figuritively when posting specifics but I wanted to prove that tactically this game is as good as any. Maybe not so much in the functionality of orders and missions. But its there |
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TEBOW BAGGINS
Rebel Raiders Inc.
895
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 23:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
it's the most strategic console FPS i've played. which isn't saying much |
TEBOW BAGGINS
Rebel Raiders Inc.
895
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 23:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
it's like CCP is too worried about what noob A thinks about noob B's weapon, and noob C doesnt have enough armor to ever get to the point of adding strategic layers to the game or a working market, or all the other meta game stuff we were promised. instead they're stuck spinning their wheels in mud over what some guy is crying about on the forums. how long will this "rebalance" phase last until they can work on more meaningful stuff? |
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
509
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 23:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Start with some GD interior maps and maps with interior structures that a LAV can't drive through.
Put the NULL cannons in different areas, altitudes. The MFs have been in the same spots, on the ground level, in the middle of the ******* bowl for too long.
Maps, MFs.
******* maps.
FFS, how many devs have to get pink slipped before we see some more ******* maps,
GFD.
|
Ryan Mauler
WarRavens
League of Infamy
17
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 23:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
TEBOW BAGGINS wrote:it's the most strategic console FPS i've played. which isn't saying much
It takes strategy, yes, but a different kind. It takes a very specific kind of tactical awareness to play dust, or any competetive fps, really. This awareness is knowing what your enemy is thinking and making calls based on your skill and their skil. Its something that every competetive player gets etched into their subconscious. That is strategy.
The strategy I am talking about, however, is the bigger picture. Commanding the squad as a unit as well as a group of individuals. A squad leader should be able to tell them to take the objective, as well as How to take the objective. Cuz these battles are part of a universe so massive, a dust merc will likely never visit half of it. These battles need to feel more important with deep commands. Making consious decisions in battle is what DUST is all about, "Turning the tises of battle, toppling empires" |
Ryan Mauler
WarRavens
League of Infamy
17
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 23:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Start with some GD interior maps and maps with interior structures that a LAV can't drive through.
Put the NULL cannons in different areas, altitudes. The MFs have been in the same spots, on the ground level, in the middle of the ******* bowl for too long.
Maps, MFs.
******* maps.
FFS, how many devs have to get pink slipped before we see some more ******* maps,
GFD.
Umm.... Zero relevance detected. Did you spam this all over the place? |
DoomLead
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
174
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 23:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ryan Mauler wrote:Rynoceros wrote:Start with some GD interior maps and maps with interior structures that a LAV can't drive through.
Put the NULL cannons in different areas, altitudes. The MFs have been in the same spots, on the ground level, in the middle of the ******* bowl for too long.
Maps, MFs.
******* maps.
FFS, how many devs have to get pink slipped before we see some more ******* maps,
GFD.
Umm.... Zero relevance detected. Did you spam this all over the place?
Actually maps make up a big part of the strategy involved in this game when I run with my corpmates in the dead 6 we run and play with a lot of strategy all the power corps do the same that's why eon and the chronos alliances are the mpst powerful groups in the game new maps would bring about new strategy |
Ryan Mauler
WarRavens
League of Infamy
17
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 00:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
Gotcha, makes sense. So obviously each map has its own elements that demand different strategies, but how are we going to give more strategic flexibility, without making everyone have their own strategy (aka lone wolfing) people operate well under objectives, but non unique objectives get boring fast. Squad leaders should be able to give more specific objectives and maybe even que the objectives. Squad to squad communication would pretty important as well. Thoughts? |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
1189
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 00:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
yes |
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