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Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
3842
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Posted - 2013.11.21 02:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:X7 lion wrote:Go back the the public discussion leave this thread for people who are better at not trying to break the game beyond repair. You STFU. This man has contributed more than you will ever will to the community. If I could I would put my boot up your ass right about now.
I'd be next in line.
Take your own advice, *******.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
|
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
3844
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 03:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
zibathy numbertwo wrote:Cat Merc wrote:X7 lion wrote:Go back the the public discussion leave this thread for people who are better at not trying to break the game beyond repair. You STFU. This man has contributed more than you will ever will to the community. If I could I would put my boot up your ass right about now. No, YOU shut the **** up. Stop trying to destroy the only FPS I enjoy. If I could I would send the OP straight to hell in a handbasket. This is by far the worst suggestion I have ever seen. It fucks over game design AND content - it REMOVES it. The OP sounds like your typical commie/socialist crying out for "fairness" and less choice. Suck my FREE, LIBERTY LOVING, GALLENTEAN ****.
What it does is remove power-creep, something that actually detracts from the fun of the game.
Consider how CCP Reykjavik has already done this same thing with EVE, and have been greeted with nothing but praise for doing so. Do you think that's because we're all morons or something?
I mean, this is clearly a troll post, so I'm just feeding the trolls like a noob, but whatever.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
|
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
3845
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 12:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Nope
Vehicles would be ****** yet again
We dont even have adv let alone proto mods or hulls yet your all screaming for tiercide because once again infantry have basically everything so your proto suits would be fine but we as vehicle would prob end up with madrugars and gunlogis as our proto vehicles which already get ****** by proto AV
Let alone the removal of basic/adv stuff so less to use
The only way i would ever support tiercide is when everything is out and released and has been balanced and if that takes 2yrs then so be it but doing it right now would screw over vehicle users and that is a fact Has CCP confirmed that there will be advanced and proto tanks? No. Only specialized vehicles. Yet we have proto mods and turrets in 1.7 which we cannot fit all proto onto the basic tanks which are classed by meta level where 1-3 is basic, 4-6 is advanced, 7-9 as proto and anything higher is generally faction and officer which vehicles do not have access to So yes we need adv/proto vehicles so we can fit on our adv/proto mods espc for PC where currently its proto suit with proto AV weapon with proto mods vs a proto turret and basic mods and hull
The higher meta levels are there for modules and not the assets that use them for a reason. Having different meta levels and thus different fitting requirements is an essential part of the fitting system, as it allows a player to further customize their suit or vehicle.
The issue is that these meta levels were applied to suits, which just results in power creep. The LAST thing this game needs is yet more power creep in the form of tiers for vehicles. As many of us have been saying for months, the suit tiers need to go.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
|
Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4342
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 04:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Bethhy wrote:Yes now that we have CoD and BF like TTK, and Aim Assist with Bullet homming and magnetic tracking of moving targets Proof... Why have any other scaling or diversity in the game at all? Why is there EVEN a DUST in the first place? You should be at end game in 1-2 weeks max and then put dust on a shelf to only touch a few times a year...    What sad days these are. Aim assist and TTK is irrelevant to this topic; leave that crap outside. With everyone having suits equivalent to ADV or PRO, TTK would actually increase because of how much HP can be stacked. You should be supporting this if you want higher TTK. So you're against this because it makes Dust less special in your opinion? even though its an unbalanced system that hurts the game's longevity? That's just dumb. Tiers are a poor way of adding diversity, especially since higher tier suits fill the same roles as their lower tier counterparts, but are just better with no downsides. True diversity comes from the specializations, not the tiers. You're just a jive turkey who doesn't want to lose his ability to protostomp newbs fresh out of the academy with a squad of corpmates. If appearance of my character was everything sure. But I Have asked for scaling or playgrounds or any kind of option to KEEP diversity in the game while giving new players a chance to actually get on the many learning curves in DUST. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1370431#post1370431Even IF Militia suits had no Active Skill bonuses from the Mercenary... So everyone wearing Militia items don't have their skills register. Then have a Game mode where it's militia suits only is even a better option. I would prefer a game that continues to scale as it grows. It creates Specialized mercenaries and roles.. Not a bunch of mercenaries that are maxed out or near maxed out in every role and class in the game "zzzzzzz". It dumbs things down to make it "easy" because it takes to long? who wants a game they can get to the end of so quick? \I don't want that regardless if I'm on this toon or my newly made 900k SP logistics toon. I do not like green egg's and ham, I do not like them, Sam I am.
The idea is that the Frame suits get two bonuses, and the Specialist suits get four and role bonuses as necessary. Two of the four would be related to the frame skill, and the other two to the specialist skill, such that someone that puts all five levels into both is rewarded with better performance. However, this also means that someone who just gets both to level four can at least compete, as opposed to the current climate of getting **** on unless you can run Proto in at least one role.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
|
Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4345
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 04:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Everyone AGREES there needs to be role specific bonuses on suits... not blanket "tank" based bonuses... a Tank, DPS, Healer, Scout class system... the MMO thing or EVE thing or? the Elephant in the room no dev wants to talk about. But I don't agree we need to get rid of the different Tier's in those classes, that have not even been defined yet. Or that DUST is even close to the max capabilities of what Tiers could be, for example Tech II?. Regardless of how easy or accessible you make the "Aiming" or the "Equipment and Weapons" or having a module that makes you "See all the enemies" it will not make a new FPS player or new to a CCP game player be good at it or stand a chance magically. The ONLY way we could or CAN, is to allow players to learn how to play a FPS shooter game with EVE like Elements and there is going to have to be a teaching process. Not hold their hands with Magentic bullets and tracking, Big boy suits in a couple weeks because that will suddenly make them better?(it never did for me learning) a module to show the where the fight is but don't explain how to use it? We need Emphasis on Classes, Heavy specializations in Races and then into Tier's (and then different technology levels...  )and Heavy tutorials on those classes. We need a CCP game in all it's glory. not a Dumbed down CCP game. The key factor in everything is the Learning curve in EVE and avoiding that transition here while offering the massive depth capabilities. And for that we need very good explanations for new players coming into DUST, on HOW TO PLAY IT... not give them a bunch of stuff without explanation or even having time learning how to use it. We need to focus around the learning curve of the NPE and the advancement in DUST around that. At no point ever should someone a month out be coming up against You, Or a lot from the absolute slayer groups like Nyain, Imps, A.E., O.H.. etc.. Those corporation markers may bring some animosity from some Mercenaries, but regardless of how you scale the suits so a new player has more tools to face these people they will get destroyed. You take an all star group of top 10 dust'ers from the forum lists. then take a top 10 FPS list from the world with no DUST exp. and put them all in battle academy in all the same situation right now. The Experience and time playing this game will trump any self thoughts of greatness every time. and that is the fact here we have to face, and start tailoring around that not dumbing a CCP game down because its a F2p game and it should be "easy" That is why this is sad.
Part of EVE though and part of what they've been redoing over the past few expansions as part of "Tiericide" is eliminating the tier system in ships(suits) in order to replace the tiers with a set of ships that have defined roles and are ALL useful, no matter what.
Right now, once you get Proto gear, the only reason to use any suit below it is to save money, and the Frame suits cost MORE than the Specialist suits, meaning that a new player has a painful grind awaiting them at the start just to be useful to a Corp or even just to be able to have fun.
The concept here is that you would have Militia suits that requires no skills but has lower capability and is used for the free Starter fits to let new players get into the game.
Then you have Frame suits that require a skill and give you a pair of more general bonuses that allow the suit to grow with you as you progress.
Finally, the Specialist suit is the pinnacle of suits, and gives you more bonuses, but with 2 of the 4 being semi-general and controlled by the Frame skill to reward people who get that skill to 5. This way dedication is rewarded at all levels, and you don't end up with the negative "power creep" that we have right now.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
|
Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4346
|
Posted - 2014.01.03 05:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Bethhy wrote:Everyone AGREES there needs to be role specific bonuses on suits... not blanket "tank" based bonuses... a Tank, DPS, Healer, Scout class system... the MMO thing or EVE thing or? the Elephant in the room no dev wants to talk about. But I don't agree we need to get rid of the different Tier's in those classes, that have not even been defined yet. Or that DUST is even close to the max capabilities of what Tiers could be, for example Tech II?. Regardless of how easy or accessible you make the "Aiming" or the "Equipment and Weapons" or having a module that makes you "See all the enemies" it will not make a new FPS player or new to a CCP game player be good at it or stand a chance magically. The ONLY way we could or CAN, is to allow players to learn how to play a FPS shooter game with EVE like Elements and there is going to have to be a teaching process. Not hold their hands with Magentic bullets and tracking, Big boy suits in a couple weeks because that will suddenly make them better?(it never did for me learning) a module to show the where the fight is but don't explain how to use it? We need Emphasis on Classes, Heavy specializations in Races and then into Tier's (and then different technology levels... )and Heavy tutorials on those classes. We need a CCP game in all it's glory. not a Dumbed down CCP game. The key factor in everything is the Learning curve in EVE and avoiding that transition here while offering the massive depth capabilities. And for that we need very good explanations for new players coming into DUST, on HOW TO PLAY IT... not give them a bunch of stuff without explanation or even having time learning how to use it. We need to focus around the learning curve of the NPE and the advancement in DUST around that. At no point ever should someone a month out be coming up against You, Or a lot from the absolute slayer groups like Nyain, Imps, A.E., O.H.. etc.. Those corporation markers may bring some animosity from some Mercenaries, but regardless of how you scale the suits so a new player has more tools to face these people they will get destroyed. You take an all star group of top 10 dust'ers from the forum lists. then take a top 10 FPS list from the world with no DUST exp. and put them all in battle academy in all the same situation right now. The Experience and time playing this game will trump any self thoughts of greatness every time. and that is the fact here we have to face, and start tailoring around that not dumbing a CCP game down because its a F2p game and it should be "easy" That is why this is sad. Part of EVE though and part of what they've been redoing over the past few expansions as part of "Tiericide" is eliminating the tier system in ships(suits) in order to replace the tiers with a set of ships that have defined roles and are ALL useful, no matter what. Right now, once you get Proto gear, the only reason to use any suit below it is to save money, and the Frame suits cost MORE than the Specialist suits, meaning that a new player has a painful grind awaiting them at the start just to be useful to a Corp or even just to be able to have fun. The concept here is that you would have Militia suits that requires no skills but has lower capability and is used for the free Starter fits to let new players get into the game. Then you have Frame suits that require a skill and give you a pair of more general bonuses that allow the suit to grow with you as you progress. Finally, the Specialist suit is the pinnacle of suits, and gives you more bonuses, but with 2 of the 4 being semi-general and controlled by the Frame skill to reward people who get that skill to 5. This way dedication is rewarded at all levels, and you don't end up with the negative "power creep" that we have right now. They have dumbed down EVE a lot.. but it doesn't feel that way still for a new player coming in. There is just so much to EVE, so many things that p[layers barely touch, Moon Mining, Reactions, PI, FW, 0.0, Manufacturing, R&D, Research, BPC, Market Tycoon. and they are continuing to add a lot to it... Including player exploration and universe expansion. they can afford to make the ships more accessible as they try and populate 0.0. All we do is try to dumb DUST down and make it "easier" instead of explaining it and giving better customization, Specialization, roles and guides. You don't get it. Putting a few month old player in a fancier suit and making the strongest suits in the game scale closely to those isn't going to change anything for the few month old player. They will still get destroyed. Putting them against a veteran will always be a problem in a CCP game. worse so when we take individual aiming skill out of it. DUST's depth is in the future of EVE not public matches where 2 year old DUST mercenaries fight 1.5 month old DUST mercenaries... it has to depend on more then just the 4 races(that have been here for 11 years) and a couple options as your suit grows with you. It needs hundreds of options in each of those races as you scale in the tiers(Hence the diversity? ("MobIus is known for this suit with this weapon combo with this kind of tank and equipment etc... and there is only 20 others like you.), When 0.0 Sovereignty and Planet control is fought with suit's having 10x(Dream) the potential the current proto does. Making fights intense on level's not seen in FPS's.
And how does the current meaningless power creep brought on by tiers of suits contribute to any of this? I hope you aren't one of those people who wants to expand the tier system to vehicles as well.
I mean, haven't you considered why we don't have tiers for vehicles? Why we only have specializations for them that are designed for a specific task?
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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