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Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
365
   |
Posted - 2013.10.07 13:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
The situation, tiericide and Dust.
In the very far past people used to think throwing babies into fires was a good idea too, maybe there will be a return of that past popular way to get more out of your god.
In the present we have Dust, suits and vehicles both need tiers. Without a physical representation (even in digital) of all the work a person has done to get X amount of SP there is no feeling of achievement. This thought keeps me playing (for 2 years now) almost every day. Its the motivation for many mercs and should not be thrown away. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
365
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 15:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:The situation, tiericide and Dust.In the very far past people used to think throwing babies into fires was a good idea too, maybe there will be a return of that past popular way to get more out of your god. In the present we have Dust, suits and vehicles both need tiers. Without a physical representation (even in digital) of all the work a person has done to get X amount of SP there is no feeling of achievement. This thought keeps me playing (for 2 years now) almost every day. Its the motivation for many mercs and should not be thrown away. Skill bonuses, and new specializations (with bonuses). Most shooters manage to give players an addicting sense of progression without the things being unlocked being obviously superior. EVE does better since tiers have been removed from what I understand.
I am a generous person but can verify that you have your facts backwards. Tiers have not been removed and are likely to be increased rather than downgraded.
I have no reference for tier additions in Eve but believe it was during one of their fanfest video presentations that they asked for ideas about which ship class should get a new Tier 3 ship. If you are interested in trying Eve to find out more about new eden please take the opportunity to take advantage of a 21 day free trial of Eve: 21 Day Free Trial (standard is 14 days).
Tier 3 Minmatar Battle Cruiser
In addition to T1, T2, T3 ships there are both T1 and T2 modules to fit to ships and there are also Faction modules with higher meta levels than the Tier 2 modules. Often the faction modules have lower skill requirements than the T2 modules. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
365
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 15:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:The situation, tiericide and Dust.In the very far past people used to think throwing babies into fires was a good idea too, maybe there will be a return of that past popular way to get more out of your god. In the present we have Dust, suits and vehicles both need tiers. Without a physical representation (even in digital) of all the work a person has done to get X amount of SP there is no feeling of achievement. This thought keeps me playing (for 2 years now) almost every day. Its the motivation for many mercs and should not be thrown away. Skill bonuses, and new specializations (with bonuses). Most shooters manage to give players an addicting sense of progression without the things being unlocked being obviously superior. EVE does better since tiers have been removed from what I understand. I am a generous person but can verify that you have your facts backwards. Tiers have not been removed and are likely to be increased rather than downgraded. I have no reference for tier additions in Eve but believe it was during one of their fanfest video presentations that they asked for ideas about which ship class should get a new Tier 3 ship. If you are interested in trying Eve to find out more about new eden please take the opportunity to take advantage of a 21 day free trial of Eve: 21 Day Free Trial (standard is 14 days). Tier 3 Minmatar Battle CruiserIn addition to T1, T2, T3 ships there are both T1 and T2 modules to fit to ships and there are also Faction modules with higher meta levels than the Tier 2 modules. Often the faction modules have lower skill requirements than the T2 modules. Eve ships uses Tech, not tiers. Techs are basically levels of specializations. Tech 1 is like basic medium frame, Tech 2 is like logi, tech 3 is like a super-customizable suit where even the PG/CPU can be changed, at least that was what I was lead to believe. I think the use of the word tier is a mistake on the wiki, or the page is a relic from the past before EVE had tiercide (origin of the term). Actually it could just be that tiercide is not complete in EVE, I searched "EVE Online tiercide" asking about when it will be complete https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=239100 , this could explain the page you linked with the tiers. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74234 Here is an EVE devblog on tiercide.
"The Tornado is a Tier 3 Battlecruiser that sacrifices durability for the ability to fit large (Battleship-grade) weapons." --quoted from my previous eve wiki quote, and still listed in their descriptions.
They effectively just changed skill requirements which happens all the time and is not to be confused with removing tiers.
As it currently stands only Gallente industrials have seen this happen I am sure more will be announced but this is not the same as what dust has, read a few descriptions, proto is not tier 2. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
365
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 16:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
You miss the point, there have to be benefits for investing SP in something or it breaks the current system. The current system says if you have X skill to lv5 you can use the best gear. That gives reason to get X skill to lv5 rather than leaving it on lv1 or 3 where your advanced gear starts. If you remove the option and spec each suit to something different then you need more more more different things to make specialized and currently the suits are specialized with good, better and best as options for fitting. You want to remove good, better and best and make it the same for all lvs.
Try this...see if it fits
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Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
366
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 21:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:I think the OP is confused with what tiericide in EVE means. In EVE there were multiple ships in each racial class that were "tiered." You could fly the first Battleship of your race at racial battleship 1, the next at a higher level and the last at level 5 (maybe it was 4). Anyways, these were all very different ships that filled different roles, and having them tiered didn't make sense. Tiericide was making all T1 battleships of the same race have roughly equal stats. You absolutely do have better versions of the same ship in EVE and there are no plans for that to go away. For example, you have the standard Omen cruiser, a "navy" version of it which is significantly better, and the T2 Heavy Assault Cruiser version called the Zealot which will kick the crap out of a T1 Omen, it's also like 100x more expensive. You also have T3 cruisers, and the Amarr leigion can be configured similarly to an Omen. It will also kick the **** out of it.
Tiericide in DUST would be more like making sure the assault and logistics versions of a suit were roughly competitive with each other stats-wise, or Sentinals and Commandos having similar overall power (even though they have different roles, one is not meant to be the better version of the other). There is no intention to make T2 or T3 ships on par with T1 ships in EVE.
I can wear proto Amarr assault, but I run STD suits with better mods and advanced weapons 7 times out of 10. The risk vs. ISK is the most compelling feature of DUST. It's fun and interesting to make choices like "should I go advanced to get revenge on that proto pubstomper? Is it worth the risk to me of loosing it?" No other FPS games have you make decisions like that, it's part of what makes DUST the most interesting FPS ever made (not saying it doesn't have plenty of problems).
You sir have fit it all into a nutshell. I agree that it is somewhat more compelling than fighting for KDR in COD or BF. You are spot on with the ships in Eve as well. If I want to go mission with some friends and bring a T1 Logi Osprey along to keep everyone good on their shields it would suffice for doing LV4 missions, on the other hand if I were to go run with a TVP Incursion fleet I would need to have a T2 Logi Basilisk (200mil just for the ship vs 19mil fitted for the Osprey) fit with a faction fit to be invited into the Incursion Fleet because it needs to be more effective. There is a definite reason for the Tiericide in Eve but at this point in time Mr. Wolf seems like he is just asking to remove the stepping stones along the path to Proto rather than having to go through with the process of skilling and killing. |
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