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Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
533
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 15:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Currently, vehicles are unaware of being locked by homing devices. I suggest we introduce a locking tone (although swarm launchers use passive optics to guide their missiles, I digress from lore for this) on vehicles that warns their pilot that someone is attempting to achieve a lock with a hostile weapon, and changes to inform them that a lock has been obtained / homing weapons in flight.
I wish to also introduce new Electronic Warfare Modules for vehicles. A vehicle may only one type of the following Electronic warfare modules equipped.
Quote:Lock breaker - High Slot Item - Max one per vehicle. Single Pulse, one second. 1 minute cool-down. Breaks all locks (including in-flight missiles). People in the process of locking the vehicle will have their process restarted and stalled for the one second.
Missile Countermeasures - Low slot item. -Max one per vehicle. Fires a group of lasers that intercept incoming missiles for one second. 1 minute cool down.
Displacement Generator - High Slot Item Creates a false image of the vehicle within 50 meters of the actual vehicle for 3 seconds and cloaks the initiating vehicle. 5 minute cool-down. Missiles will still track the hidden vehicle. Only one allowed per vehicle. - requires cloaking device also on vehicle.
Cloaking Device - High Slot item A cloaked vehicle moves at 1/10th its maximum speed and cannot activate weapons or modules nor can the crew enter or leave the vehicle without deactivating the cloaking device first. Any enemy trooops/vehicles within 50 meters of the vehicle will decloak it. There is a 20 second arming delay after decloaking before the vehicle may use its weapons.
A vehicle may fit as many of the following as he likes
Quote:Stasis Webifier - High Slot Item A vehicle locks up another vehicle with the webifier, and the targeted vehicle's max speed and acceleration are reduced by 50% for basic and up to 60% for proto.
Tracking Disruptor - High slot item A vehicle locks up another vehicle with the tracking disruptor and the target vehicle's turret tracking is reduced by up to 50%.
Tracking Link - High slot item A vehicle locks up another vehicle causing its turrets' tracking to increase by up to 50%
Energy Neutralizer - High Slot Item A vehicle locks up another vehicle, accelerating the module's active timers, causing them to run out faster, and it also increases the length of time the modules must cool down. The activator's vehicle's modules also experience a similar effect.
Energy Transfer Array - High Slot Item A vehicle locks up another vehicle, slowing down a module's active timers and allowing it to run longer. Modules relying on pulses gain additional pulses. The Energy transfer array also reduces the cool-down time of the target'ed vehicles modules.
Power Booster - High slot item Activating the Power Booster reduces the cool-down of all modules on the activating vehicle except for cloaking devices and power boosters. The power booster runs for 12 seconds and then has a 20 second cool down. |
Kasote Denzara
A Vulture
183
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 15:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
There's so much wrong with this that I can't even point it all out. I cannot fathom words for it. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
533
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 15:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kasote Denzara wrote:There's so much wrong with this that I can't even point it all out. I cannot fathom words for it. How so? I was bringing a little more EVE to dust. |
Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
894
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 15:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kasote Denzara wrote:There's so much wrong with this that I can't even point it all out. I cannot fathom words for it.
I like how people actually come up with new ideas and people dont even have the decency to talk about it or do anything apart from just a general statement saying no with no explanation. Good job.
Also good work TC some interesting ideas with some balancing discussions I would be interested in some of this stuff. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
533
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 15:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Edited the OP for more reasonable numbers. |
Kasote Denzara
A Vulture
184
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 15:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
You want me to explain? Alright, let's point out all the problems.
First two, anti-missile. That'd cut the swarms down below half efficiency.
Hologram, yes, hologram because that's exactly what it is by another name. What purpose could this possibly have? Throw off infantry? I don't think they'll fall for that murder taxi that just phased through a building, brah.
Cloaking. Now, this was actually presented in an acceptable way, except I have to point out that a vehicle that can bump-kill someone after moving half a foot does not need to be able to sit still and bump-kill. ... Though this is personally a hilarious thought to me.
Webifier. This is actually a plausible idea for LLAV/LAV vs LLAV/LAV combat. Extremely little use against a tank that's already craptastically slow.
The next two involve turret tracking speed. This is a problem. We aren't in EVE where our guns are automatically controlled. Vehicle turrets are manually controlled. Tracking ability is purely the gunner's ability.
Energy Neutralizer. I could see this being used in LAV/LLAV vs LAV/LLAV combat. Against tanks? Unless you can withstand the hell fury of an angry tank, that's a no go.
Transfer Array. I can see this actually being used to support a tank. It still suffers a later point I'm going to make.
Power Booster. The short times aren't enough?
You are suggesting things without a counter viable. That or they are simply out of place. This is not EVE. Everything requires a counter of some sort. Like the explosive damage armor takes? Me too. Shame we don't have anything for that. |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1165
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 15:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kosote go home you're drunk |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
534
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 16:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kasote Denzara wrote:You want me to explain? Alright, let's point out all the problems.
First two, anti-missile. That'd cut the swarms down below half efficiency.
Hologram, yes, hologram because that's exactly what it is by another name. What purpose could this possibly have? Throw off infantry? I don't think they'll fall for that murder taxi that just phased through a building, brah.
Cloaking. Now, this was actually presented in an acceptable way, except I have to point out that a vehicle that can bump-kill someone after moving half a foot does not need to be able to sit still and bump-kill. ... Though this is personally a hilarious thought to me.
Webifier. This is actually a plausible idea for LLAV/LAV vs LLAV/LAV combat. Extremely little use against a tank that's already craptastically slow.
The next two involve turret tracking speed. This is a problem. We aren't in EVE where our guns are automatically controlled. Vehicle turrets are manually controlled. Tracking ability is purely the gunner's ability.
Energy Neutralizer. I could see this being used in LAV/LLAV vs LAV/LLAV combat. Against tanks? Unless you can withstand the hell fury of an angry tank, that's a no go.
Transfer Array. I can see this actually being used to support a tank. It still suffers a later point I'm going to make.
Power Booster. The short times aren't enough?
You are suggesting things without a counter viable. That or they are simply out of place. This is not EVE. Everything requires a counter of some sort. Like the explosive damage armor takes? Me too. Shame we don't have anything for that.
I'm suggesting counters to things that currently don't have counters. What counter is there to a swarm? Now we have one with the lock breaker and missile defense. What counter is there to a forge sniping a tank? Now we have one with displacement for 2 seconds.
Webifiers have amazing use for all sorts of vehicle hunting, dropship v dropship webifiers. Get that lock and the other guy will be in a world of hurt.
Slowing down a blaster user's ability to turn that thing and it could save you and cost him his tank if you drive by with your tank faster than he can track you.
The Transfer array could actually make using shields mean something. |
Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
896
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 16:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kasote Denzara wrote: SNIP Ok my thoughts on your thoughts lol.
First two, anti-missile. That'd cut the swarms down below half efficiency. - It was to stop one volley correct? basic swarms get a 3shot clip so technically your losing 33% if your using STD 50% for MLT but for example proto swarms you have 5 shots so you are only losing 20%.
Hologram, yes, hologram because that's exactly what it is by another name. What purpose could this possibly have? Throw off infantry? I don't think they'll fall for that murder taxi that just phased through a building, brah. - Agreed. Anyone with any observational awareness will realise the tank disappearing and reappearing a few meters away is up to no good.
Cloaking. Now, this was actually presented in an acceptable way, except I have to point out that a vehicle that can bump-kill someone after moving half a foot does not need to be able to sit still and bump-kill. ... Though this is personally a hilarious thought to me. - This would be great on a tank as a way to sneak up on a pesky sniper tank and the weapon arming time would be a great way of making sure you cant just decloak and instagib a tank you would have to be in a good spot where you can hide till your weapons come online then begin the attack. Invisible LAVs would be a pain but I believe he mentioned if they got too close to infantry or other vehicles they decloak so you wouldn't get LAV's just sitting next to people invisible.
Webifier. This is actually a plausible idea for LLAV/LAV vs LLAV/LAV combat. Extremely little use against a tank that's already craptastically slow. - Would be useful in tank vs tank I can usually keep up with a fleeing tank or escape a pursuer thanks to some nitrous but this would be a good way of tank hunter tanks becoming useful make a heavyier and slower tank to take out tanks, thanks to its speed it would be less useful against infantry but it would need to get within webifying range of the enemy tank to stand a chance of bringing it down.
The next two involve turret tracking speed. This is a problem. We aren't in EVE where our guns are automatically controlled. Vehicle turrets are manually controlled. Tracking ability is purely the gunner's ability. - I think he meant tracking speed like the tracking computer modules this could be useful on a LAV that was supporting a tank.
And I cant remember what the other things were meant to do so I shall leave it there for the moment. |
Kasote Denzara
A Vulture
184
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 16:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: I'm suggesting counters to things that currently don't have counters. What counter is there to a swarm? Now we have one with the lock breaker and missile defense. What counter is there to a forge sniping a tank? Now we have one with displacement for 2 seconds.
Webifiers have amazing use for all sorts of vehicle hunting, dropship v dropship webifiers. Get that lock and the other guy will be in a world of hurt.
Slowing down a blaster user's ability to turn that thing and it could save you and cost him his tank if you drive by with your tank faster than he can track you.
The Transfer array could actually make using shields mean something.
I don't know about you, but I feel like I'm one of the people that have enough common sense to stay out of open areas when using a vehicle. How do you counter a swarm? Well, the environment is overpowered and undestructible. How can anyone get in a vehicle and not expect someone to carry swarms with the trend of murder taxis?
Forge Gun sniping? Is this really brought up? A standard Breach variant of the FG can nearly one shot certain low class tanks. Users of this FG can only bunny hop barely a foot while this gun charges (which is a while, by the way). Assault FGs have a shorter charge time, but they cannot hold a charge. I don't know about you, but with an advanced Assault, it takes me two clips of FG (depending on the skill of tanker) to take down the ******* shields of a lot of high end tanks. These tanks, in turn, can one shot me no matter what. Let's roll back to the environment. FGs do not magically go through them. I've ran into some pretty smart tankers that aren't stupid enough to sit out and take FG shots without an escape or a cover.
In to webifiers. Please leave dropships out of this. They are in a desperate state as it is. We don't need suggestions to kick them in the teeth while they're down. I can one shot most of these and I extremely hate it.
Tanks turn rather slow as it is, if you ask me. Besides, who rolls in a tank without gunners? Should everyone, like, not be able to turn at all or is already able to out move them not enough?
Shields mean something? They are currently one of the only meaningful things. Soon, we armors will rise. |
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
871
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 16:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
The 1 second use is meh tbh and the cooldown just hurts even more since swarms can easily refire in less than 5secs so it just stops that particular set plus the lazer idea im mean how far out would they reach
Displacement generator sounds good but 3sec for 5min cooldown, nope
Cloak id like but is OP cries all infantry
Mods are intresting, all high slot tho so power to armor |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
534
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 16:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:The 1 second use is meh tbh and the cooldown just hurts even more since swarms can easily refire in less than 5secs so it just stops that particular set plus the lazer idea im mean how far out would they reach
Displacement generator sounds good but 3sec for 5min cooldown, nope
Cloak id like but is OP cries all infantry
Mods are intresting, all high slot tho so power to armor True, but I believe all would be slot negotiable. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
871
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 16:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:The 1 second use is meh tbh and the cooldown just hurts even more since swarms can easily refire in less than 5secs so it just stops that particular set plus the lazer idea im mean how far out would they reach
Displacement generator sounds good but 3sec for 5min cooldown, nope
Cloak id like but is OP cries all infantry
Mods are intresting, all high slot tho so power to armor True, but I believe all would be slot negotiable.
Its the lack of active time and severe cooldown which makes is meh and kinda meh to use, could take up a valuble slot which in most cases could be more useful
Look at the Saga II LAV, 10sec for 70% resist but 3min cooldown no one uses it |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
177
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 16:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Kasote Denzara wrote:You want me to explain? Alright, let's point out all the problems.
First two, anti-missile. That'd cut the swarms down below half efficiency.
Hologram, yes, hologram because that's exactly what it is by another name. What purpose could this possibly have? Throw off infantry? I don't think they'll fall for that murder taxi that just phased through a building, brah.
Cloaking. Now, this was actually presented in an acceptable way, except I have to point out that a vehicle that can bump-kill someone after moving half a foot does not need to be able to sit still and bump-kill. ... Though this is personally a hilarious thought to me.
Webifier. This is actually a plausible idea for LLAV/LAV vs LLAV/LAV combat. Extremely little use against a tank that's already craptastically slow.
The next two involve turret tracking speed. This is a problem. We aren't in EVE where our guns are automatically controlled. Vehicle turrets are manually controlled. Tracking ability is purely the gunner's ability.
Energy Neutralizer. I could see this being used in LAV/LLAV vs LAV/LLAV combat. Against tanks? Unless you can withstand the hell fury of an angry tank, that's a no go.
Transfer Array. I can see this actually being used to support a tank. It still suffers a later point I'm going to make.
Power Booster. The short times aren't enough?
You are suggesting things without a counter viable. That or they are simply out of place. This is not EVE. Everything requires a counter of some sort. Like the explosive damage armor takes? Me too. Shame we don't have anything for that. I'm suggesting counters to things that currently don't have counters. What counter is there to a swarm? Now we have one with the lock breaker and missile defense. What counter is there to a forge sniping a tank? Now we have one with displacement for 2 seconds. Webifiers have amazing use for all sorts of vehicle hunting, dropship v dropship webifiers. Get that lock and the other guy will be in a world of hurt. Slowing down a blaster user's ability to turn that thing and it could save you and cost him his tank if you drive by with your tank faster than he can track you. The Transfer array could actually make using shields mean something.
what's the counter to a tank mowing down players at range, forge gun, whats the counter for any vehicle mowing down players at mid range, swarms and forge guns, what's the counter to murder taxis mowing down players at close range, av grenades. your talking about adding these modules which serve to only weaken vehicles and weaken av at the same time and i will state why,
counter to swarms is hit it with your turret, get your crew to hit it, call for a sniper to snipe it, call for anyone to kill it or just move a few meters into cover, that is if your not a solotard who thinks being in a tank should make him a god.
the counter on a dropsuit to small arms fire is my shields or armor and my weapons, your counter in a vehicle to AV damage is your 3 turrets your crew, any squad members on the ground around it.
where is my dropsuit counter to tank fire, i want anti large rail ,missile,blaster turret counter measures
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Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
534
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 16:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Kasote Denzara wrote:You want me to explain? Alright, let's point out all the problems.
First two, anti-missile. That'd cut the swarms down below half efficiency.
Hologram, yes, hologram because that's exactly what it is by another name. What purpose could this possibly have? Throw off infantry? I don't think they'll fall for that murder taxi that just phased through a building, brah.
Cloaking. Now, this was actually presented in an acceptable way, except I have to point out that a vehicle that can bump-kill someone after moving half a foot does not need to be able to sit still and bump-kill. ... Though this is personally a hilarious thought to me.
Webifier. This is actually a plausible idea for LLAV/LAV vs LLAV/LAV combat. Extremely little use against a tank that's already craptastically slow.
The next two involve turret tracking speed. This is a problem. We aren't in EVE where our guns are automatically controlled. Vehicle turrets are manually controlled. Tracking ability is purely the gunner's ability.
Energy Neutralizer. I could see this being used in LAV/LLAV vs LAV/LLAV combat. Against tanks? Unless you can withstand the hell fury of an angry tank, that's a no go.
Transfer Array. I can see this actually being used to support a tank. It still suffers a later point I'm going to make.
Power Booster. The short times aren't enough?
You are suggesting things without a counter viable. That or they are simply out of place. This is not EVE. Everything requires a counter of some sort. Like the explosive damage armor takes? Me too. Shame we don't have anything for that. I'm suggesting counters to things that currently don't have counters. What counter is there to a swarm? Now we have one with the lock breaker and missile defense. What counter is there to a forge sniping a tank? Now we have one with displacement for 2 seconds. Webifiers have amazing use for all sorts of vehicle hunting, dropship v dropship webifiers. Get that lock and the other guy will be in a world of hurt. Slowing down a blaster user's ability to turn that thing and it could save you and cost him his tank if you drive by with your tank faster than he can track you. The Transfer array could actually make using shields mean something. what's the counter to a tank mowing down players at range, forge gun, whats the counter for any vehicle mowing down players at mid range, swarms and forge guns, what's the counter to murder taxis mowing down players at close range, av grenades. your talking about adding these modules which serve to only weaken vehicles and weaken av at the same time and i will state why, counter to swarms is hit it with your turret, get your crew to hit it, call for a sniper to snipe it, call for anyone to kill it or just move a few meters into cover, that is if your not a solotard who thinks being in a tank should make him a god. the counter on a dropsuit to small arms fire is my shields or armor and my weapons, your counter in a vehicle to AV damage is your 3 turrets your crew, any squad members on the ground around it. where is my dropsuit counter to tank fire, i want anti large rail ,missile,blaster turret counter measures Infantry cloaking devices and EWAR equipment are in the pipeline. |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
178
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 16:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
i was just trying to state the point that where you see no counter measures there actually is in the form of using a weapons weakness against it such as bad tracking and slow speed when it comes to swarms or having good tank instead of more dps or simply carrying the right crew to counter them, a heavy for close range when av grenades are used or a logi sniper to snipe the swarm player at range or to rep you until you make it to cover.
the crew is your counter measures. people complain they don't see swarms coming, if you had good crew then you would. when i roam as crew i'm always on the lookout and calling out danger to the driver and it works well. and if i know he wont be able to get away i jump out and mow the guy down myself or stick my rep tool on him to buy him more time. |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
445
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 17:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Kasote Denzara wrote:You want me to explain? Alright, let's point out all the problems.
First two, anti-missile. That'd cut the swarms down below half efficiency.
Hologram, yes, hologram because that's exactly what it is by another name. What purpose could this possibly have? Throw off infantry? I don't think they'll fall for that murder taxi that just phased through a building, brah.
Cloaking. Now, this was actually presented in an acceptable way, except I have to point out that a vehicle that can bump-kill someone after moving half a foot does not need to be able to sit still and bump-kill. ... Though this is personally a hilarious thought to me.
Webifier. This is actually a plausible idea for LLAV/LAV vs LLAV/LAV combat. Extremely little use against a tank that's already craptastically slow.
The next two involve turret tracking speed. This is a problem. We aren't in EVE where our guns are automatically controlled. Vehicle turrets are manually controlled. Tracking ability is purely the gunner's ability.
Energy Neutralizer. I could see this being used in LAV/LLAV vs LAV/LLAV combat. Against tanks? Unless you can withstand the hell fury of an angry tank, that's a no go.
Transfer Array. I can see this actually being used to support a tank. It still suffers a later point I'm going to make.
Power Booster. The short times aren't enough?
You are suggesting things without a counter viable. That or they are simply out of place. This is not EVE. Everything requires a counter of some sort. Like the explosive damage armor takes? Me too. Shame we don't have anything for that. I'm suggesting counters to things that currently don't have counters. What counter is there to a swarm? Now we have one with the lock breaker and missile defense. What counter is there to a forge sniping a tank? Now we have one with displacement for 2 seconds. Webifiers have amazing use for all sorts of vehicle hunting, dropship v dropship webifiers. Get that lock and the other guy will be in a world of hurt. Slowing down a blaster user's ability to turn that thing and it could save you and cost him his tank if you drive by with your tank faster than he can track you. The Transfer array could actually make using shields mean something. what's the counter to a tank mowing down players at range, forge gun, whats the counter for any vehicle mowing down players at mid range, swarms and forge guns, what's the counter to murder taxis mowing down players at close range, av grenades. your talking about adding these modules which serve to only weaken vehicles and weaken av at the same time and i will state why, counter to swarms is hit it with your turret, get your crew to hit it, call for a sniper to snipe it, call for anyone to kill it or just move a few meters into cover, that is if your not a solotard who thinks being in a tank should make him a god. the counter on a dropsuit to small arms fire is my shields or armor and my weapons, your counter in a vehicle to AV damage is your 3 turrets your crew, any squad members on the ground around it. where is my dropsuit counter to tank fire, i want anti large rail ,missile,blaster turret counter measures
Let me get this straight: You think that vehicles can't avoid AV fire is a good thing? Okay, then MD's should start homing, and Locus Grenades should start homing. Then try and say something. |
Argon Gas
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
107
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 17:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:The 1 second use is meh tbh and the cooldown just hurts even more since swarms can easily refire in less than 5secs so it just stops that particular set plus the lazer idea im mean how far out would they reach
Displacement generator sounds good but 3sec for 5min cooldown, nope
Cloak id like but is OP cries all infantry
Mods are intresting, all high slot tho so power to armor So what? It stops a single set of swarms, that means you can cut 2000 damage right there. And if 3 people are firing at the same time, that cuts 6000 damage.
If it had a lower cool down it would be OP. |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
178
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 17:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote: Let me get this straight: You think that vehicles can't avoid AV fire is a good thing? Okay, then MD's should start homing, and Locus Grenades should start homing. Then try and say something.
they can avoid av by playing smart but most vehicles drivers don't play smart or tactical and they pay for it with the loss of their vehicle. keep cover nearby and you can avoid swarms, keep a crew and they can give your early warning or take out the av player, fit more tank and less dps mods, look at what people are using, if you see players taking out lavs with av grenades then you know you don't want to be going anywhere near that, lookout for what swarm launchers players are using. if its militia then you dont have alot to worry about unless your in a poor tank.
you know what gets me. thousands of players getting their a***s handed to them by vehicles every day and all we complain about is murder taxis yet when someone in a vehicle dies and its like" omg all is op, we need it nerfed or give us counters to it all"
the counter to vehicles for all mercs is, move out of the way, hide or kill the vehicle,
the counter to av for all vehicles is, move out of the way, hide or kill the player.
it appears to me you don't want to play smart or tactical and would rather ccp buff vehicles until they are indestructible and nerf everything to oblivion as long as you get your easy mode invincible tank. your suggestions are a nerf to all av. i have chased down tanks with proto swarms and gone through 2 nano hives and they have still been roaming about because unlike you they know how to skillfully drive a tank. LLAVS are already indestructible and the only things keeping the lav menace at bay is av. |
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