there is a counter to everything , stop being lazy and find it

Prototype grenades do 910 damage against armor while doing 490 to shields.

Which I'm fine with, I just don't like that explosive spam is so easy to achieve without thinking in this game.

then thats not the answer

try again

An anti armor weapon being great against armor does not make it OP, it just means its doing its job. Its like a shield tanker saying flux grenades and scrambler rifles are OP because they completely destroy shields. You might as well be saying scissors is OP because it cuts paper.

Armor is getting HP buffs and speed penalty reduction very soon. Wait for the buff before calling for MD nerfs.

One thing I find odd is that in the devblog on weapon types and the weapon ranges, they said explosive weapons do 120% more against armor, not 130%. Perhaps there is a bug if its doing 130%.

The type of damage, the amount of damage, the damage modifiers are not the problem.

It's just the mass spam atm, not the weapon, its the over use, being told to dodge the shots when its actually 10 mass driver rounds, 2 forge guns and 20 nades going off...dodge. Best way I have found to dodge is redline Thale sniping proto suits, making sure people aren't making money.

Because MDs have to account for bullet drop, projectile speed, movement of target, his own elevation in relation to target.....

AR's just can be pointed at the enemy, spam R1, admire the 50 on your screen. Oh, and your getting aim assist.

Realize what the guy went through to make the shot.

Is that not what the MD is for?

Suppressing groups of infantry, while excelling at dropping Armor units.

If it wasn't supposed to kill groups of armor, and keep groups of shield away from an area, what was it supposed to do?

Hmm?

Have you tried the MD, sir?

The fact that it's an explosive weapon means its inherently anti-armor, that's what explosive weapons are.

Better to run away to fight another day then to let your pride rule you.

How do infantry survive tank engagements? You run away and get some gear to fight em off.

If the MD is chasing you, stop around a corner, and blow their face off in CQC.

That is what area denial is...I DENY you from getting in this AREA. I pissed on this objective, it's MINE.

Also, you said that most the MD users are Scouts and Caldari med suits. I would like proof, please.

A weapon is made to be effective against my suit? O no nerf it so its no longer effective vs armor and worthless vs shields. You have to think before you suggest nerfs.

It's an EXPLOSIVE weapons, so yeah, it should do that much damage to armor. It does less against shields, so there's a good trade off.

If flux grenades actually killed you I would agree with this.
But they don't, which is why everyone is using Locus because they do EXTREME damage to armor, one shotting any medium frame armor suit, and still do enough damage to shields to negate the need for fluxes.
Fluxes need to turn into a reverse Locus Grenade, doing 135/70, while the Locus Grenade does 70/135.

Shield tankers could make the same argument when I hit them with my scrambler pistol. All suits have counters and weak spots.

Two problems with what you've said:

1) your percentages are wrong - mass drivers do 80% damage to shields (your were correct on this) but only do 120% damage to armor (see this link)
2) you are forgetting that even armor tanked suits have shields, which mitigate damage unless some other outside force acts on it (and if you have to use a flux grenades, to be able to make your weapon so effective, it's not really OP, is it?).

Now, let's apply this to a real world application instead of random damage numbers. I have a Gallente Logi alt I like to use. With the alt's mediocre skills, I run an advanced suit that has 134 HP in shields, and 300 HP in armor. Let's pretend I've fit a standard Mass Driver on my suit, and I run into the exact same suit, worn by a merc with the exact same skill points I have, but he has a standard Assault Rifle. With no SP spend on extra damage for either weapon, each weapon is at it's base:

1) Standard Mass Driver: 242 damage (direct), 116 (splash), 60 rounds/minute, clip size is 6, and reload is 4 seconds
2) Standard Assault Rifle: 34 damage (direct), no splash, 750 rounds/minute, clip size is 60, and relaad is 3 seconds

Now, assuming both me and my mirror are complete morons, and we are standing completely still, and we are landing our shots perfectly, what will happen?

Here is our damage per second factoring in reload times:

1) MD (36 shots per minute @ 242 damage per shot divided by 60 seconds): 145.2 DPS
2) AR: (461 shots per minute @ 34 damage per shot divided by 60 seconds): 261.5 DPS

First thing we notice, is that the DPS of the MD is significantly lower than the AR (but keep in mind that the % of damage applied is different for each weapon.

So how this actually apply in the above scenario?

MD shot 1: 134 damage to shields - accounting for 20% reduction in damage, this takes the first 167.6 HP of damage from the first round, and the rest is applied to the armor. The remaining 74.4 is applied to the armor with a 20% bonus, making this shot effectively 89.2 HP of damage to armor. This leaves my enemy at 210.7 HP or armor

At the same time, my enemy is firing his AR at me. In the 1 second it took me to do the above damage, he places 7.68 bullets on me (let's round this down to 7 given you can't hit with a partial bullet). It will take 121 points of damage to knock out my shields of 134 due to the 10% bonus to shield damage he gets, leaving him 117 points of damage to apply to my armor at a 10% penalty. Effectively, he just did another 105 points of damage to my armor reducing me to 195 HP of armor left.

After 1 second of direct fire, my enemy is in a better position than I am with my Mass Driver. At this rate, the Mass Driver and Assault Rifle are pretty much a draw. We can't calculate further because I don't know the flight times of the round from the MD and the AR, so you can't gauge how many more rounds from the AR will hit me before my next round hits my enemy.

I am not a Mass Driver user, and do prefer the AR (I'm not too proud to admit it). To me, though, the mass driver is not OP vs armor in this scenario, and people that say otherwise are probably forgetting other factors (like flux grenades, that guy over there that you didn't notice that is hitting you outside his AR optimal scratching you for more damage, etc). Both weapons are pretty close to the same effectiveness, and given that the mass driver is meant to be an area denial tool, the lower DPS is expected.

If you factor in flux grenades, you will need to remember a couple of things - 1) the grenade takes time to throw, and if both mercs have nerves of steel, the AR using is getting shots off while the flux is in the air, and while the the MD user attempts to bring the MD to bear after throwing the flux (you all have played enough to know that there is a delay after throwing a grenade before you can use a weapon again). Since again I don't know the time it takes to throw a grenade and then bring a weapon to bear, I can't calculate this. Also this will vary widely with the enemy and their amount of shields.

I am happy to work up the numbers for other weapons if you all like using this same scenario, but I think I have effectively shown that the MD is not OP (at least in this situation), and is in fact in line slightly less effective than the AR given its role of area denial.

EDIT: Posting this in a separate thread to be sure it gets attention.

1) A MD doesn't hit you if you take cover.
2) No, a scrambler doesn't do damage if you miss...but it does more when you hit.
3) No, a scrambler can't kill more than 1 people with one bullet...but neither can a MD.

An MD does more damage to armor than I do...but I do more damage with a direct headshot hit. He on the other hand does more if he misses thanks to splash damage. I can shoot faster than a MD.

In short, there are enough disadvantages to make the mass driver balanced. Learn to counter it.

I'll tell you what I'm told when I complain about swarms: htfu