Jimthefighter
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
11
   |
Posted - 2013.08.17 15:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:In the words of some man/woman/ungendered transhumanistic clonebeing many years ago
"Armor is junk."
-Some Guy
It is generally assumed, both in EVE and in DUST that the most inferior of the three main tanks is Armor Tank. In DUST, the Plates give you a large sum of HP for a noticeable decrease in speed. Shields give you a lesser amount of rapidly regenerating HP. The paradigm seemed to be shifting in the last few updates with the introduction of new plates, though they were widely met with scorn and derision at their "patented uselessness." Using the basic idea of the modules for both sides and the 1.4 and 1.5 changes in store, I will attempt to assuage the fear of those who use Shields as their primary tank or Explosives as their damagetype.
First, the main traits
Armor
Large HP
Non regenerative
Shield
Small HP
Regenerative
With me so far? Seems balanced enough, correct? Choose Armor if you want a brawler, shields for skirmishers. Next the drawbacks.
Armor
Speed Reduction
Shield
Slower shield regen start (1.5 proposed drawback)
Armor is heavy, and makes the big brawler a slower target. Skirmishers can't afford a loss of speed, but having bigger barriers means they have to have a longer downtime between engagements. Next, repair methods.
Armor
Constant slow repair, needs Reppers (local or Logi) to function
Shield
Fast automated regeneration once exiting combat. Can add modules to increase regen rate or decrease downtime.
Armor gets a slight added buffer to combat HP, but has vastly inferior repair. Shields MUST disengage, but can choose to thanks to their greater speed and are ready for combat far before the armor tanker, under the same amounts of damage.
Both sides have equal weaknesses and strengths as of the 1.5 shielding changes, the only thing we need to hammer down are the numbers, not the principles of the defenses.
While this is true, as far as I know, a bug still exists for shields, making the timer till regen start after the first hit instead of the last hit. It means that incidental damage or continual damage, but with a 1 sec break after 5 or so seconds, shields start to regen. So shields are being able to do more than just skirmish, they can actively tank mid-combat.
That, in addition to various penalties to armor tanking (many of which are being somewhat resolved) such as poor progression vs. shield extenders, bad alternative modules, and increasing penalties to speed relative to gear (costing more speed per point of armor the higher the meta you go) makes armor tanking not as viable as shield tanking.
Side note: In addition, if you lose your shields you aren't dead, you will be soon, but not yet, so flux, the only true anti-shield nade, doesn't kill you like the normal nades. However, for armor tanks, out of armor means dead. I suppose a counter to this could be to create a nade that does similar damage to normal nades, but with a shield bias (so 120% or 130% to shields and 80% or 70% to armor). But that's probably never going to happen. |
Jimthefighter
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 03:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Jimthefighter wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:In the words of some man/woman/ungendered transhumanistic clonebeing many years ago
"Armor is junk."
-Some Guy
It is generally assumed, both in EVE and in DUST that the most inferior of the three main tanks is Armor Tank. In DUST, the Plates give you a large sum of HP for a noticeable decrease in speed. Shields give you a lesser amount of rapidly regenerating HP. The paradigm seemed to be shifting in the last few updates with the introduction of new plates, though they were widely met with scorn and derision at their "patented uselessness." Using the basic idea of the modules for both sides and the 1.4 and 1.5 changes in store, I will attempt to assuage the fear of those who use Shields as their primary tank or Explosives as their damagetype.
First, the main traits
Armor
Large HP
Non regenerative
Shield
Small HP
Regenerative
With me so far? Seems balanced enough, correct? Choose Armor if you want a brawler, shields for skirmishers. Next the drawbacks.
Armor
Speed Reduction
Shield
Slower shield regen start (1.5 proposed drawback)
Armor is heavy, and makes the big brawler a slower target. Skirmishers can't afford a loss of speed, but having bigger barriers means they have to have a longer downtime between engagements. Next, repair methods.
Armor
Constant slow repair, needs Reppers (local or Logi) to function
Shield
Fast automated regeneration once exiting combat. Can add modules to increase regen rate or decrease downtime.
Armor gets a slight added buffer to combat HP, but has vastly inferior repair. Shields MUST disengage, but can choose to thanks to their greater speed and are ready for combat far before the armor tanker, under the same amounts of damage.
Both sides have equal weaknesses and strengths as of the 1.5 shielding changes, the only thing we need to hammer down are the numbers, not the principles of the defenses. While this is true, as far as I know, a bug still exists for shields, making the timer till regen start after the first hit instead of the last hit. It means that incidental damage or continual damage, but with a 1 sec break after 5 or so seconds, shields start to regen. So shields are being able to do more than just skirmish, they can actively tank mid-combat. That, in addition to various penalties to armor tanking (many of which are being somewhat resolved) such as poor progression vs. shield extenders, bad alternative modules, and increasing penalties to speed relative to gear (costing more speed per point of armor the higher the meta you go) makes armor tanking not as viable as shield tanking. Side note: In addition, if you lose your shields you aren't dead, you will be soon, but not yet, so flux, the only true anti-shield nade, doesn't kill you like the normal nades. However, for armor tanks, out of armor means dead. I suppose a counter to this could be to create a nade that does similar damage to normal nades, but with a shield bias (so 120% or 130% to shields and 80% or 70% to armor). But that's probably never going to happen. The bug may or may not still plague DUST, but I am not accounting for it here for the same reason people don't account for other in medias fix issues, if we started balancing against bugs instead of intended results we'd be here all week and still get nothing done. Also, you may want to search for Uprising 1.4, they're boosting the viability of Armor Plating enourmously. I did have an idea about Stamina being HP, allowing a 'hulltank' of sorts with stamina extenders. Once armor and shield are gone the bullets tear into you, dropping stamina along with sprinting and jumping. Hit 0 and you collapse from exhaustion and expire without immediate medical help. It's flawed as hell, but I thought it sounded cool. :p
I know about the much needed armor buff for 1.4. It still has the problem of increasing loss of speed per armor point (I think, I saw someone do the math), but it's not as bad as it was before.
And I'm not talking about balancing against bugs. You shouldn't (as hopefully said bugs will get fixed soon). I'm just saying to the state of things are at the moment. To a degree, it's why people see shields as almost always better. That and the fact that the most effective armor chewers also prevent revives, while nothing (as far as I know) that chews through shields, except repeated shootings of the body, prevents revives. |