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Jason Pearson
Seraphim Auxiliaries
2540
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Posted - 2013.08.16 10:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Has no place here, especially when you consider we have shields and lasers, spaceships and immortal clones. not only this, but we have a theocratic Empire that actually managed to make it to space, I still don't see how it's realistic in the slightest.
Get out with your realism.
King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7355
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 10:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Has no place here, especially when you consider we have shields and lasers, spaceships and immortal clones. not only this, but we have a theocratic Empire that actually managed to make it to space, I still don't see how it's realistic in the slightest. Get out with your realism.
King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!
All theology has many forms, if jump gates and warp drives are gifts from god then so be it, out of the four empires they're the only ones that kept more than enough records to at least know that earth was possibly the homeworld to humanity. All the other races completely forgot everything. |
Niccolo deLuce
The Vanguardians
11
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Posted - 2013.08.16 11:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Has no place here, especially when you consider we have shields and lasers, spaceships and immortal clones. not only this, but we have a theocratic Empire that actually managed to make it to space, I still don't see how it's realistic in the slightest.
Get out with your realism.
Agreeing with IWS. A religion founded after space travel had been achieved would by default probably include space travel. It's not like they would colonize new worlds and then lock themselves back into the bronze age religions that we have currently.
We already have lasers and spaceships btw, in case you've never read a science article from the last few decades, albeit obviously not at the level portrayed in this game. The clone thing is far-fetched, but pretty much everything in here is more realistic than a microwave would have seemed 100 years ago. |
Soldiersaint
Deepspace Digital
341
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Posted - 2013.08.16 13:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
OK if realism doesn't matter then why do you keep crying about the swarm launcher and mass driver? They do what they are supposed to do **** everything! |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5760
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Posted - 2013.08.16 13:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Someone likes dat strafe
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RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
328
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Posted - 2013.08.16 13:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Disagree completely.
Realism is all about believability, not reality.
Look at 2012, NASA rated it most 'unrealistic' sci-fi movie ever. A bit harsh, but not far off the mark. It was just complete nonsense and utterly unbelievable. Then look at Star Wars, complete fantasy, but it happened "long ago in a galaxy far far away". Imagine if Han Solo said: "I'd love to shoot those storm troopers but my blaster can't shoot that far, we need to get closer", the space blaster is believable, the idiotic range is not. I use that example as we had the same thing here, with 'Assault Rifles' that had worse performance than WWII-era rifles. |
THE TRAINSPOTTER
ROMANIA Renegades C0VEN
118
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Posted - 2013.08.16 13:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
i want to be able to fly ala Supermanand punch dropships and i want hidden animals on the battlefield , like dogs and cats , if you can catch them all you get 1 mil ISK and i want a win button its possible , remember , its not aboot realism
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RoundEy3
Metal Mind Industries
316
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Posted - 2013.08.16 13:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yeah guys, forget reality. Lasers and shields are total fantasy, even though they have existed as an applicable technology for the past decade and then some. Forget about advancement, that never happens. What came first the interwebz or the the handcart. Stupid realism stuff. |
RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
330
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Posted - 2013.08.16 13:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Has no place here, especially when you consider we have shields and lasers, spaceships and immortal clones. not only this, but we have a theocratic Empire that actually managed to make it to space, I still don't see how it's realistic in the slightest. Get out with your realism.
King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!
Pakistan (theocratic) have nukes. Isreal have nukes (chosen people). North Korea have nukes (leader is a living god). Having unusual spiritual "inclinations" doesn't preclude you from technology. Not to mention if you study history you'll come to the realisation that organised religion (especially its upper echelons) is mostly about controlling people and power, "God" is an excuse.
Anyway, in the context of New Eden, interstellar technology was re-invented or re-discovered by the 4 races (not invented from scratch). |
ReGnYuM
TeamPlayers EoN.
735
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Posted - 2013.08.16 13:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
RedRebelCork wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Has no place here, especially when you consider we have shields and lasers, spaceships and immortal clones. not only this, but we have a theocratic Empire that actually managed to make it to space, I still don't see how it's realistic in the slightest. Get out with your realism.
King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! Pakistan (theocratic) have nukes. Isreal have nukes (chosen people). North Korea have nukes (leader is a living god). Having unusual spiritual "inclinations" doesn't preclude you from technology. Not to mention if you study history you'll come to the realisation that organised religion (especially its upper echelons) is mostly about controlling people and power, "God" is an excuse. Anyway, in the context of New Eden, interstellar technology was re-invented or re-discovered by the 4 races (not invented from scratch).
Don't Test my faith SCUM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Lord of General Discussion Winner of Closed Beta Tester Tournament Winner of Eve/Dust 514 PvP Fanfest Tournament
KDR > EVERYTHING |
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RoundEy3
Metal Mind Industries
317
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Posted - 2013.08.16 14:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Despite the question of a whole theocratic society advancing to such a high level of technology, the concept of faith, life, and death would always accompany any living concious being.
The clones in DUST are "immortal" because of a technology. Though not truly immortal, it is more of a bypass. Death is still there, it wasn't banished, just bypassed for now. For example a merc could decide to disable the little techno thingy that makes the tech function. Maybe after a hundred years of that crap you'd get sick of the pointless cycle. Free will, death, morals, would still be there,
My point being that as long as there is life, and people dream of things unreal, the unknown will always be there to beckon a curiosity, and a yearning for answers. Some attempt to answer this by religion, some by science, some by faith or a combination of the three.
So it is quite realistic to imagine that humans capable of warp technology, concious transfers, and cloning would still have questions that have no realistic answers. |
DeadlyAztec11
Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo
1870
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 14:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Has no place here, especially when you consider we have shields and lasers, spaceships and immortal clones. not only this, but we have a theocratic Empire that actually managed to make it to space, I still don't see how it's realistic in the slightest. Get out with your realism.
King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! All theology has many forms, if jump gates and warp drives are gifts from god then so be it, out of the four empires they're the only ones that kept more than enough records to at least know that earth was possibly the homeworld to humanity. All the other races completely forgot everything. What about the Joves and Sleepers?
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DeadlyAztec11
Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo
1870
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 14:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Niccolo deLuce wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Has no place here, especially when you consider we have shields and lasers, spaceships and immortal clones. not only this, but we have a theocratic Empire that actually managed to make it to space, I still don't see how it's realistic in the slightest.
Get out with your realism.
Agreeing with IWS. A religion founded after space travel had been achieved would by default probably include space travel. It's not like they would colonize new worlds and then lock themselves back into the bronze age religions that we have currently. We already have lasers and spaceships btw, in case you've never read a science article from the last few decades, albeit obviously not at the level portrayed in this game. The clone thing is far-fetched, but pretty much everything in here is more realistic than a microwave would have seemed 100 years ago.
1792
George Washington: "So your telling me that that you believe that one day we will be able to simply cook our food in a box?"
Benjamin Franklin: "Yes, I have studied the affects of intense light and I believe it will be possible to sustain it in a controlled environment, so we would be able to cook without a flame."
George Washington: "Bull ****!"
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soulreaper73
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
239
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Posted - 2013.08.16 14:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Has no place here, especially when you consider we have shields and lasers, spaceships and immortal clones. not only this, but we have a theocratic Empire that actually managed to make it to space, I still don't see how it's realistic in the slightest. Get out with your realism.
King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! All theology has many forms, if jump gates and warp drives are gifts from god then so be it, out of the four empires they're the only ones that kept more than enough records to at least know that earth was possibly the homeworld to humanity. All the other races completely forgot everything.
or they could be the long lost descendants of Tom Cruise and are Scientologists.
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ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1024
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 15:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
>.> <.<
Looks at rail gun.... thinks of realism... never goes near a rail gun tank again...
Then remembers the power needed to make a laser that can damage plate steel at 10m... and screams like a little girl when a laser rifle overheats... (assuming the laser rifle doesnt just ignite the atmosphere) |
RoundEy3
Metal Mind Industries
318
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 15:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:>.> <.<
Looks at rail gun.... thinks of realism... never goes near a rail gun tank again...
Then remembers the power needed to make a laser that can damage plate steel at 10m... and screams like a little girl when a laser rifle overheats... (assuming the laser rifle doesnt just ignite the atmosphere)
Probably due to the discover of new elements in New Eden with entirely different atomic structures than anything found locally on Earth. Leads to all new alloys, physics, energy dynamics, chemical and thermal properties.
C'mon it's scifi dammit! |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Auxiliaries
2551
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 15:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
I got responses, that's all I needed :D
The religious little bit was just a joke, I came from a church that told me Humans should never ascend into space, as it's not for us. :(
The point I was trying to make was "Realism" is bad for a game like this, and when I say realism I mean the comments people make about Vehicles being one shotted by a much cheaper RPG irl, that has no place here. I don't care if a Tank can be killed in real life in a single shot, War is not meant to be fun irl yet here we are trying to make games of war fun.
There is no joy in being one shotted by anything, even if in real life it happens all the time. To people that say "I should one shot a tank because irl It happens" doesn't take into account the enjoyability of the players being one shotted, and the fact if a Tank was one shotted in real life and the guy survived, chances are he wouldn't have to fork out the costs of his tank by grinding fights against Terrorists for a few hours.
(That said, I don't believe Tanks should be one/two shotting people with blasters, I think Tanks need to be tanks and their weapons need to be weaker, atleast against Infantry.)
King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! |
Vickers S Grunt
Expert Intervention Caldari State
210
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Posted - 2013.08.16 15:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
Read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Requiem_for_Homo_Sapiens its a really good set of books about religion in space .
Ps. No one can one shot your tank what u on about ? |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Auxiliaries
2553
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 16:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
I was addressing people saying it should be one shottable as that's what it is in real life.. :/
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwUfrih8xDFKVZO3FszcXEQh5_AhZx2qstItPWd0OCT6YfKE23 |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1262
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 17:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Are you trying to imply that modern day theology cannot believe in space travel?
Personally I am a Catholic and I have no problem accepting the possibilities of space travel and science in general. |
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Jason Pearson
Seraphim Auxiliaries
2554
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 17:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Are you trying to imply that modern day theology cannot believe in space travel?
Personally I am a Catholic and I have no problem accepting the possibilities of space travel and science in general.
You might not, many I know do have a problem. Like I said, it was more of a joke at the expense of my old Church.
King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! |
Viktor Zokas
187.
227
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Posted - 2013.08.16 18:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Has no place here, especially when you consider we have shields and lasers, spaceships and immortal clones. not only this, but we have a theocratic Empire that actually managed to make it to space, I still don't see how it's realistic in the slightest.
Get out with your realism.
Hold your tongue heretic scum, or I'll cut it out.
Don't be bitter because your so called 'Federation' lacked a goal in the past. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1909
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 18:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
Internal consistency is the most important quality for a setting. All F&SF requires us to accept something that is not currently true, but once we do that everything else should flow easily without gut twisting explanations. I'll suspend disbelief, but I don't want to have to hang it until it's dead.
Blasters can have high power but short range due to the plasma containment failing at range. Instant transmission of mental state to a waiting clone is a real stretch, but that's the one magical assumption we have to make for DUST. Lasers getting stronger at range and then weaker again is a really hard one to justify as you have to start ignoring physics, but you can wave your hands about phasing and the like.
However once the writer(s) establish the constraints of the world though, they shouldn't break them.
New Eden requires a wormhole target (DU) to instantly transport a mercenary. Ok. But then we appear randomly in ambush or around objectives. That breaks immersion because it violates the established rules of the world.
We animate in CRUs, but not really. Instead we appear invisible in the neighborhood of the CRU, and it doesn't matter how many clones are inside it. We could capture an enemy CRU but still run out of clones. That ignores all lore established in "Templar One".
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RoundEy3
Metal Mind Industries
320
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 18:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Internal consistency is the most important quality for a setting. All F&SF requires us to accept something that is not currently true, but once we do that everything else should flow easily without gut twisting explanations. I'll suspend disbelief, but I don't want to have to hang it until it's dead.
Blasters can have high power but short range due to the plasma containment failing at range. Instant transmission of mental state to a waiting clone is a real stretch, but that's the one magical assumption we have to make for DUST. Lasers getting stronger at range and then weaker again is a really hard one to justify as you have to start ignoring physics, but you can wave your hands about phasing and the like.
However once the writer(s) establish the constraints of the world though, they shouldn't break them.
New Eden requires a wormhole target (DU) to instantly transport a mercenary. Ok. But then we appear randomly in ambush or around objectives. That breaks immersion because it violates the established rules of the world.
We animate in CRUs, but not really. Instead we appear invisible in the neighborhood of the CRU, and it doesn't matter how many clones are inside it. We could capture an enemy CRU but still run out of clones. That ignores all lore established in "Templar One".
Sorry the lore is still in beta It'll have to catch up someday, or not??? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7366
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 19:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
RoundEy3 wrote:Yeah guys, forget reality. Lasers and shields are total fantasy, even though they have existed as an applicable technology for the past decade and then some. Forget about advancement, that never happens. What came first the interwebz or the the handcart. Stupid realism stuff.
BAE and US Navy are working on Shielding Technology. The BAE system looks promising for smaller vehicles it would prevent majority of small arms fire penetrating by forcing projectiles to hit the target at the least optimal angle. (because everyone would agree the side of a bullet is more preferable for armor to get hit with than nose which usually contains penetrator aids such as steel cores and warheads.
US Navy's version would simply be a missile and torpedo shield in theory it would work but testing hasn't started yet also EPA is a bit mad for it because it is a radiation based shield.
Laser Weapons are also US Navy and BAE combined effort, after the last demonstration I can see it being an infinitely better than current missile defense than CWIS Counter Gun/ Counter Missile systems in defeating both aircraft and ship threatening missiles. This isn't ww2 era would a battleship thick armor would laugh off an exo cruise missile as it bounces off its hull.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7366
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Posted - 2013.08.16 19:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Internal consistency is the most important quality for a setting. All F&SF requires us to accept something that is not currently true, but once we do that everything else should flow easily without gut twisting explanations. I'll suspend disbelief, but I don't want to have to hang it until it's dead.
Blasters can have high power but short range due to the plasma containment failing at range. Instant transmission of mental state to a waiting clone is a real stretch, but that's the one magical assumption we have to make for DUST. Lasers getting stronger at range and then weaker again is a really hard one to justify as you have to start ignoring physics, but you can wave your hands about phasing and the like.
However once the writer(s) establish the constraints of the world though, they shouldn't break them.
New Eden requires a wormhole target (DU) to instantly transport a mercenary. Ok. But then we appear randomly in ambush or around objectives. That breaks immersion because it violates the established rules of the world.
We animate in CRUs, but not really. Instead we appear invisible in the neighborhood of the CRU, and it doesn't matter how many clones are inside it. We could capture an enemy CRU but still run out of clones. That ignores all lore established in "Templar One".
Active Drop Suit Defense systems can prevent effective range of weapons being too far out if the suit's sensors detect the round early enough and makes the rapid shield and armor adjustments to defeat the round.
Fluid Helium 4 Sub-entangled Quantum Routers
Lasers can be multi beamers with a focal point. 3 lasers are more powerful than 1 right? Amarr are known for having multi beamers into clusters as high as four clusters
It may need an anchor based on how much interference is being put out. A hostile MCC could be emitting serious amounts of jamming interference preventing popping in soldiers accurately. Which is why a random ambush map has it and every map with MCCs seems to require a well established anchor or is in the MCC itself.
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1912
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Posted - 2013.08.18 00:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Skihids wrote:Internal consistency is the most important quality for a setting. All F&SF requires us to accept something that is not currently true, but once we do that everything else should flow easily without gut twisting explanations. I'll suspend disbelief, but I don't want to have to hang it until it's dead.
Blasters can have high power but short range due to the plasma containment failing at range. Instant transmission of mental state to a waiting clone is a real stretch, but that's the one magical assumption we have to make for DUST. Lasers getting stronger at range and then weaker again is a really hard one to justify as you have to start ignoring physics, but you can wave your hands about phasing and the like.
However once the writer(s) establish the constraints of the world though, they shouldn't break them.
New Eden requires a wormhole target (DU) to instantly transport a mercenary. Ok. But then we appear randomly in ambush or around objectives. That breaks immersion because it violates the established rules of the world.
We animate in CRUs, but not really. Instead we appear invisible in the neighborhood of the CRU, and it doesn't matter how many clones are inside it. We could capture an enemy CRU but still run out of clones. That ignores all lore established in "Templar One".
Active Drop Suit Defense systems can prevent effective range of weapons being too far out if the suit's sensors detect the round early enough and makes the rapid shield and armor adjustments to defeat the round. Fluid Helium 4 Sub-entangled Quantum Routers Lasers can be multi beamers with a focal point. 3 lasers are more powerful than 1 right? Amarr are known for having multi beamers into clusters as high as four clusters It may need an anchor based on how much interference is being put out. A hostile MCC could be emitting serious amounts of jamming interference preventing popping in soldiers accurately. Which is why a random ambush map has it and every map with MCCs seems to require a well established anchor or is in the MCC itself.
That doesn't explain appearing near a CRU rather than inside it, unless you want to claim a CRU doesn't actually have clones inside.
It also assumes that we can push people through wormholes with no anchor whatsoever and have them appear directly at ground level. Is that in New Eden lore? If we can be that accurate why can't we chose our deployment spot within a meter in Ambush mode?
No, lore and any semblance of consistency has been tossed in favor of simple arcade game spawn mechanics. I can understand not putting any effort into that aspect while we are still in the beta phase of development, but I'd like to see it addressed once the basics have been released.
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Funky Chunky
FunkyStars
13
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Posted - 2013.08.18 01:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Skihids wrote:Internal consistency is the most important quality for a setting. All F&SF requires us to accept something that is not currently true, but once we do that everything else should flow easily without gut twisting explanations. I'll suspend disbelief, but I don't want to have to hang it until it's dead.
Blasters can have high power but short range due to the plasma containment failing at range. Instant transmission of mental state to a waiting clone is a real stretch, but that's the one magical assumption we have to make for DUST. Lasers getting stronger at range and then weaker again is a really hard one to justify as you have to start ignoring physics, but you can wave your hands about phasing and the like.
However once the writer(s) establish the constraints of the world though, they shouldn't break them.
New Eden requires a wormhole target (DU) to instantly transport a mercenary. Ok. But then we appear randomly in ambush or around objectives. That breaks immersion because it violates the established rules of the world.
We animate in CRUs, but not really. Instead we appear invisible in the neighborhood of the CRU, and it doesn't matter how many clones are inside it. We could capture an enemy CRU but still run out of clones. That ignores all lore established in "Templar One".
Active Drop Suit Defense systems can prevent effective range of weapons being too far out if the suit's sensors detect the round early enough and makes the rapid shield and armor adjustments to defeat the round. Fluid Helium 4 Sub-entangled Quantum Routers Lasers can be multi beamers with a focal point. 3 lasers are more powerful than 1 right? Amarr are known for having multi beamers into clusters as high as four clusters It may need an anchor based on how much interference is being put out. A hostile MCC could be emitting serious amounts of jamming interference preventing popping in soldiers accurately. Which is why a random ambush map has it and every map with MCCs seems to require a well established anchor or is in the MCC itself. Iron Wolf Saber, why do I always just want to give you a kiss? |
TiMeSpLiT--TeR
Planetary Response Organisation
391
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 01:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
What goes up, must come down. Balance. Realism.
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Michael Arck
sephiroth clones D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
546
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Posted - 2013.08.18 01:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
Before any of that you mentioned, lets look at how this all started. This all started because human beings traveled through a wormhole to another world. The underline would be "traveling through a wormhole". So the immortal clones part seems unrealistic? |
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